Top Law Schools

ETS released a tool for converting your GRE Verbal and Quantitative scores into a single LSAT score, which is over at: https://www.ets.org/gre/institutions/ab ... rison_tool

Since that tool is just adding two individual scores and thus not so easy to work with, in order to see the underlying data we posted a Google Doc table that shows all the underlying combinations: https://t.co/a0E7dvRDUg

Note some interesting things about how ETS made this tool: there are no LSAT scores below 131 (meaning a minimum 130 on each section of the GRE produces a 131 on the LSAT according to ETS), and it skips scores as well (there is no combination that results in a 151, 158, 164, 170, 175, etc). But ETS does note it has a range of +/- 5 points.

Anyway, the table allows you to reverse engineer the data as well, meaning if you put in an LSAT score, you can see the various combinations that ETS claims would be possible.

There's a similar GRE to GMAT conversion tool.

It's interesting that the score predicted by this is a few points lower than my actual LSAT...after having studied for 3 months.

And by the way, I increased by over 20 points, so this isn't close to my initial diagnostic LSAT score at all.

jgloster wrote:And by the way, I increased by over 20 points, so this isn't close to my initial diagnostic LSAT score at all.

jgloster wrote:There's a similar GRE to GMAT conversion tool.

It's interesting that the score predicted by this is a few points lower than my actual LSAT...after having studied for 3 months.

Yeah, this GRE to LSAT score converter tool is pretty useless and not anywhere close to being reliable or valid.

ETS used some pretty flawed statistical methods and an unrepresentative sample of test takers/test scores to create it.

Just the simple fact that as they disclose at the bottom of the page "The predicted score range is approximately +/- 5 points for the total LSAT score" is enough to tell you that its predictive power is pretty meaningless. With that big of standard deviation (an LSAT score 10 point spread!), if it predicts your LSAT score will be 160, it could be as low as 155 (63% rank) or as high as 165 (91% rank)! lol
That big of a spread means you could only really have skills to do well in a T3 law school or could be T1 law school competitive or anywhere in between!

I doubt any top law schools will be admitting anybody based on a GRE score that isn't near perfect anytime soon.

Jeffort wrote:Yeah, this GRE to LSAT score converter tool is pretty useless and not anywhere close to being reliable or valid.

ETS used some pretty flawed statistical methods and an unrepresentative sample of test takers/test scores to create it.

Just the simple fact that as they disclose at the bottom of the page "The predicted score range is approximately +/- 5 points for the total LSAT score" is enough to tell you that its predictive power is pretty meaningless. With that big of standard deviation (an LSAT score 10 point spread!), if it predicts your LSAT score will be 160, it could be as low as 155 (63% rank) or as high as 165 (91% rank)! lol
That big of a spread means you could only really have skills to do well in a T3 law school or could be T1 law school competitive or anywhere in between!

What's up, Jeffort. I don't think the point here is accuracy so much as you can see how ETS is already out ahead of LSAC in terms of positioning their test against the LSAT. This is really a marketing tool, and in the marketing race LSAC is still at the starting line while the GRE is already sailing along.

The other thing is that while I agree the numbers used by the GRE are really broad (our table shows the incredible range of combinations that "produce" any given LSAT score in their eyes), does that even matter? There's a decent chance some schools will say, "well, it's ETS so it's probably somewhat close" (I say this having watched past proclamations from ETS be swallowed wholesale by both colleges and media, even when those claims contradicted prior statements from ETS). Eventually, schools will have their own averages and this tool won't matter, but I can see a school or two using this for a bit simply because they don't know better (which relates to my point below).

Jeffort wrote:I doubt any top law schools will be admitting anybody based on a GRE score that isn't near perfect anytime soon.

I agree with this as well, but just keep in mind that every school accepting the GRE isn't a T14 or T25 school. If their goal is to increase enrollments (and for sure that is why they are starting to use the GRE), perfect or near perfect won't be the requirement there.

My predicted LSAT was 168, based on my GRE. Garbage. Or I am an underachiever

What was your actual score?

jgloster wrote:What was your actual score?

Me? I made a 164 V, 162 M on the GRE with a 5.0 AW.

What was your actual LSAT score?

V: 170, Q: 157. There is no way in [expletive] this would be equivalent to 171. I think my Quant was in the 68th percentile. Or do they give more weight to the Verbal score?

For the record, I scored 165 on the LSAT because of LG. I never got the hang of it, and I think the games section taps into the same logical thinking skills as the GRE Quant.

Blougram wrote:V: 170, Q: 157. There is no way in [expletive] this would be equivalent to 171. I think my Quant was in the 68th percentile. Or do they give more weight to the Verbal score?

For the record, I scored 165 on the LSAT because of LG. I never got the hang of it, and I think the games section taps into the same logical thinking skills as the GRE Quant.

Yes, they do weight Verbal more, so that's one thing you are seeing in their prediction.

I also agree that the LG section has parallels to what goes on in any Quant section, which means the GRE isn't a slam dunk for someone looking to avoid LSAT LG.