What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

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Law 202x

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What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

Postby Law 202x » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:58 pm

I took 3 PTs timed in August 2016 and then abandoned it because I had no time. I was taking real analysis and some other courses and just simply could not devote time to study. So this is what I have:

Superprep 1 and 2 (six older tests)

Approximately five newer tests from low mid 70s to 80s. If I want to buy more, particularly the more recent ones I don't I can. The three PTs I took were all low to mid 70s. Here's what I would do.

Week 1: 1 pts

Week 2: 2 pts

Week 3: 2 pts

Week 4: 1 pts

Non-test days, drill sections from SuperPrep 1 and 2 such that I maintain enough pace to coplete the books.

Any suggestions, amendments or thoughts?

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Re: What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

Postby whodareswins » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:12 pm

I would consider bumping up to 2-3 PTs a week. There is great benefit to getting the endurance part of the test down. Good luck!

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Barack O'Drama

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Re: What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

Postby Barack O'Drama » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:30 pm

Law 202x wrote:I took 3 PTs timed in August 2016 and then abandoned it because I had no time. I was taking real analysis and some other courses and just simply could not devote time to study. So this is what I have:

Superprep 1 and 2 (six older tests)

Approximately five newer tests from low mid 70s to 80s. If I want to buy more, particularly the more recent ones I don't I can. The three PTs I took were all low to mid 70s. Here's what I would do.

Week 1: 1 pts

Week 2: 2 pts

Week 3: 2 pts

Week 4: 1 pts

Non-test days, drill sections from SuperPrep 1 and 2 such that I maintain enough pace to coplete the books.

Any suggestions, amendments or thoughts?


My first thought is why try to cram everything into 30 days?
Last edited by Barack O'Drama on Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

Postby peege » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:52 pm

Barack O'Drama wrote:
Law 202x wrote:I took 3 PTs timed in August 2016 and then abandoned it because I had no time. I was taking real analysis and some other courses and just simply could not devote time to study. So this is what I have:

Superprep 1 and 2 (six older tests)

Approximately five newer tests from low mid 70s to 80s. If I want to buy more, particularly the more recent ones I don't I can. The three PTs I took were all low to mid 70s. Here's what I would do.

Week 1: 1 pts

Week 2: 2 pts

Week 3: 2 pts

Week 4: 1 pts

Non-test days, drill sections from SuperPrep 1 and 2 such that I maintain enough pace to coplete the books.

Any suggestions, amendments or thoughts?


My first thought is why try to cram everything into 30 days?

Yes lol it would look like the worst 30 days of your life and an agonizing test day. If you have a diagnostic that you're happy with, just work on improving LG until February. If you want a higher score, just postpone your test and wait.

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Re: What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

Postby AJordan » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:08 pm

I can't imagine something like this being successful. I tell my students that I think a minimum of 4 months of 1-2 focused hours a day prep is the sweet spot. More than that and I feel like material is wasted and studying isn't as productive with the results not being as permanent. Of course people DO cram full time for a period to get better, some doubtless with results. I just can't imagine, even with that maddening schedule, being ready in a month. If I had a student who only had 4 weeks to prepare I would probably have them focus only on argument analysis and logic games, eschewing the intricacies of question types which need time to imprint.
Last edited by AJordan on Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

Postby covfefe » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:50 pm

Yeah, I would propose amending this to "not doing a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep," but it also depends maybe on your goals. Is this your first take? Second take? Are you applying this cycle? Have you already applied this cycle and just need to increase a score you already have? Do you not have applications in? What kind of increase/change in scores are you looking for? Are you aiming for 170+ or just 160+?

My overarching opinion on this is "don't do it, do a more relaxed schedule through May and take June, then apply next cycle and get a year of WE and have a stronger application that's more thought out and less rushed." But how crazy I think you'd be for trying to do this changes based on your answers. If you're in the low 160s already and you're aiming for mid170s, this is insane, 30 days is just not enough time, don't do it. If you're just aiming for mid 160s and you're trying to go up from 150s, this still isn't ideal (you could probably be confident of a greater increase with more time), but it's definitely easier to increase from 150s to 160s than from 160s to mid170s.

FWIW, I tried to do about a month long prep like what you described and it didn't work out for my goals. I retook after a few months of more spaced out PTs, and the results were even better than I expected them to be. It's difficult to understand the degree to which prepping for this test just takes time. I found it to be like exercising to get muscle gains. You can't go to the gym for a month and workout 5 hours a day and gain 20 pounds of muscle - the human body just doesn't work like that, it needs time to relax, recover, repair itself, etc. Studying for the LSAT is very much the same.

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Re: What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

Postby Law 202x » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:46 am

I'll read your posts more in depth and respond accordingly shortly, but for now, I want to say that I'm a fast learner and I get bored with things easily. I'm quite convinced that except for some rarities like the Virus game which reemerged recently, the older tests (1-59) are not satisfactorily similar enough to the more recent tests to provide as much performance enhancement as the later tests will and consequently, and especially as a result of already having a decent familiarity with the test, 30 days will provide a sufficient gateway to a strong performance. Unfortunately, I am losing days as we speak. Bad weather tomorrow means much of the city will be closed and possibly continuing into Wednesday. I am a huge believer in an environmental theory of study, and if I can't reach a place that is appreciably similar to testing conditions, I might not study at all until Thursday, or Wednesday, weather permitting.

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Re: What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

Postby Law 202x » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:57 am

covfefe wrote:Yeah, I would propose amending this to "not doing a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep," but it also depends maybe on your goals. Is this your first take? Second take? Are you applying this cycle? Have you already applied this cycle and just need to increase a score you already have? Do you not have applications in? What kind of increase/change in scores are you looking for? Are you aiming for 170+ or just 160+?


First take. Applying 2018, no. I'd be happy with a 168. For that matter, I'd be happy with a 167. And I'd be quite fine with a 165. Anything less than that and I will admit I should have studied more.

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Re: What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

Postby Barack O'Drama » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:06 am

AJordan wrote:I can't imagine something like this being successful. I tell my students that I think a minimum of 4 months of 1-2 focused hours a day prep is the sweet spot. More than that and I feel like material is wasted and studying isn't as productive with the results not being as permanent. Of course people DO cram full time for a period to get better, some doubtless with results. I just can't imagine, even with that maddening schedule, being ready in a month. If I had a student who only had 4 weeks to prepare I would probably have them focus only on argument analysis and logic games, eschewing the intricacies of question types which need time to imprint.


Random question: is there a particular study guide company/prep course you recommend to your students?
Last edited by Barack O'Drama on Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Law 202x

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Re: What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

Postby Law 202x » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:29 am

So if you will bear with me while I use an illustration, we are all familiar with the image of the ascent of man, from his ancient quadripedal ancestor, to erectus, etc, etc., onto the present day Homo sapiens. So our early LSAT Preptests are akin to watching the erectus in action. In it we become familiar with the mechanics, the structure, and the agenda of the machine but only in its latter manifestations do we see its perfection.

As a result, I see no reason in fashioning the mind to perform a task which it is unlikely to have to perform. I am not at all uninformed about the LSAT, what it tests and how it tests it. I'm a quite decent taker of standardized tests and I'm sure with proper education and patience and investment, I could become a highly competitive LSAT taker. But that would be boring and I want to avoid turning it into something I dislike. My major gift to people concerned about an upcoming exam is don't worry. Jesus once said, "Who by worrying can add a cubit to his stature?" Later he said, "Worry not for the morrow. For the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the troubles thereof." And so therefore I say if you will study today, fine and if you won't study today, fine. But don't let it eat at you.

So now I have 26 days. I will look more at some of my old exams and see how I was doing. In LG, I was attaining 90% give or take. But I also was not finishing the section in 35 minutes. I was routinely stuck trying to finish the last game when the timer stopped. So if I can speed it up and complete them then that is going to be a 90% game for me on a reliable basis.

I have in front of me PT 75 and 76. The third one is I don't know where. It was 70 something. These were taken in August 2016. I made a 156 on each one of them. I took them over, a week and a half, or two weeks maybe and I saw no improvement at all. I also was carrying a full load that summer and so I wanted to have my two weeks out of school to not have to do anything. And then back to school with some difficult courses so basically the time just wasn't there and nor was my interest or energy level. So I left it. But meanwhile, I studied a lot about strategy, and I read arguments for this theory or that theory and for having had the sixteen month break, I think I'm in much better shape.

RC is very strong. Very is relative. This is also over 80%. LR was the weak spot. Worse that there are two sections of it. However, after having had analysis, abstract algebra I and abstract algebra II, I'm certain that my logical faculties are in better condition than when I took those practice tests. A few days ago I took an LR section and finished it in 19 minutes I think and made 22/25. So already I have evidence that my sixteen months away was a success.

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Re: What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

Postby Law 202x » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:30 am

My question as a test taker is not, How much better am I getting while I am practicing, it is, How much better am I getting while I am not practicing.

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Re: What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

Postby tanes25 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:24 am

I would stick with your plan of 1 PT a week. 2-3 is too much if you plan on BR the test and drilling question types you had issues with. Don't jump to the next PT without addressing all issues found in that PT. Your BR score should be a few points above your goal score. If not, you probably shouldn't move on to the next PT. BR on the non-test days that you have scheduled along with completing the books. Break up the studies if you have to but BR is crucial for improvement. I agree that you need to build stamina for the test but blowing through x amount of tests isn't going to increase your chances of improving. If you want to be in the 160 range I would say make sure your LG is up to par. It's generally the easiest section to make significant gains. How are you with LG? If you can go ~2-3 on LG that frees up room for error on the other sections. Use 7 Sage videos and do as my LG as possible. 30 days is a very tight window. Be conscious of burnout. It's real!

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Re: What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

Postby jgloster » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:40 am

I'm trying to prep in 30 days (or less). This is a great idea!

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Re: What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

Postby covfefe » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:40 am

Law 202x wrote:So if you will bear with me while I use an illustration, we are all familiar with the image of the ascent of man, from his ancient quadripedal ancestor, to erectus, etc, etc., onto the present day Homo sapiens. So our early LSAT Preptests are akin to watching the erectus in action. In it we become familiar with the mechanics, the structure, and the agenda of the machine but only in its latter manifestations do we see its perfection.

As a result, I see no reason in fashioning the mind to perform a task which it is unlikely to have to perform. I am not at all uninformed about the LSAT, what it tests and how it tests it. I'm a quite decent taker of standardized tests and I'm sure with proper education and patience and investment, I could become a highly competitive LSAT taker. But that would be boring and I want to avoid turning it into something I dislike. My major gift to people concerned about an upcoming exam is don't worry. Jesus once said, "Who by worrying can add a cubit to his stature?" Later he said, "Worry not for the morrow. For the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the troubles thereof." And so therefore I say if you will study today, fine and if you won't study today, fine. But don't let it eat at you.

So now I have 26 days. I will look more at some of my old exams and see how I was doing. In LG, I was attaining 90% give or take. But I also was not finishing the section in 35 minutes. I was routinely stuck trying to finish the last game when the timer stopped. So if I can speed it up and complete them then that is going to be a 90% game for me on a reliable basis.

I have in front of me PT 75 and 76. The third one is I don't know where. It was 70 something. These were taken in August 2016. I made a 156 on each one of them. I took them over, a week and a half, or two weeks maybe and I saw no improvement at all. I also was carrying a full load that summer and so I wanted to have my two weeks out of school to not have to do anything. And then back to school with some difficult courses so basically the time just wasn't there and nor was my interest or energy level. So I left it. But meanwhile, I studied a lot about strategy, and I read arguments for this theory or that theory and for having had the sixteen month break, I think I'm in much better shape.

RC is very strong. Very is relative. This is also over 80%. LR was the weak spot. Worse that there are two sections of it. However, after having had analysis, abstract algebra I and abstract algebra II, I'm certain that my logical faculties are in better condition than when I took those practice tests. A few days ago I took an LR section and finished it in 19 minutes I think and made 22/25. So already I have evidence that my sixteen months away was a success.


Never thought I'd read a single TLS post that contained references to the ascent of man, quoted Jesus multiple times, and used having taken a couple very tough theoretical math courses as evidence of "logical faculties in good condition."

Just. keep in mind that success on one LR section is not evidence of anything -- you need to be consistently scoring like that to meet your goals. On top of that, there are some LR sections that are notably easier than others (which usually is balanced by either a tougher curve or a tougher 2nd LR section). For a 165+, a good rough goal across the all sections is something like -15-16ish.

Good luck.

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Re: What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

Postby AJordan » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:55 pm

Barack O'Drama wrote:
AJordan wrote:I can't imagine something like this being successful. I tell my students that I think a minimum of 4 months of 1-2 focused hours a day prep is the sweet spot. More than that and I feel like material is wasted and studying isn't as productive with the results not being as permanent. Of course people DO cram full time for a period to get better, some doubtless with results. I just can't imagine, even with that maddening schedule, being ready in a month. If I had a student who only had 4 weeks to prepare I would probably have them focus only on argument analysis and logic games, eschewing the intricacies of question types which need time to imprint.


Random question: is there a particular study guide company/prep course you recommend to your students?


It depends on their goals and resources. With someone with unlimited time and a goal of 170+ I'd recommend Nathan Fox (stimulus first) material to start because I think it helps build fundamentals in the proper way that pay off past the mid 160s plateau. That's with the understanding that I'm available 1 on 1 to help them get through specific questions they've identified while studying. With someone with limited time/resources and/or a lower goal (160ish) I'd probably recommend either Mike Kim's stuff or the 7Sage basic, both of which are question stem first. I'm also a big believer that LG can be learned for the cost of the games and the 7Sage videos and that any student serious about scoring 170+ should be able to go 0-2 wrong on LG without exception. That's why I think it's the best idea for someone with only thirty days.
Last edited by AJordan on Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

Postby Walliums » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:59 pm

Law 202x wrote:So if you will bear with me while I use an illustration, we are all familiar with the image of the ascent of man, from his ancient quadripedal ancestor, to erectus, etc, etc., onto the present day Homo sapiens. So our early LSAT Preptests are akin to watching the erectus in action. In it we become familiar with the mechanics, the structure, and the agenda of the machine but only in its latter manifestations do we see its perfection.


Please be a troll, please be a troll

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Barack O'Drama

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Re: What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

Postby Barack O'Drama » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:01 pm

Walliums wrote:
Law 202x wrote:So if you will bear with me while I use an illustration, we are all familiar with the image of the ascent of man, from his ancient quadripedal ancestor, to erectus, etc, etc., onto the present day Homo sapiens. So our early LSAT Preptests are akin to watching the erectus in action. In it we become familiar with the mechanics, the structure, and the agenda of the machine but only in its latter manifestations do we see its perfection.


Please be a troll, please be a troll


LMFAO. It has to be... "I'm sure with proper education and patience and investment, I could become a highly competitive LSAT taker."
Last edited by Barack O'Drama on Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Barack O'Drama

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Re: What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

Postby Barack O'Drama » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:14 am

AJordan wrote:
Barack O'Drama wrote:
AJordan wrote:I can't imagine something like this being successful. I tell my students that I think a minimum of 4 months of 1-2 focused hours a day prep is the sweet spot. More than that and I feel like material is wasted and studying isn't as productive with the results not being as permanent. Of course people DO cram full time for a period to get better, some doubtless with results. I just can't imagine, even with that maddening schedule, being ready in a month. If I had a student who only had 4 weeks to prepare I would probably have them focus only on argument analysis and logic games, eschewing the intricacies of question types which need time to imprint.


Random question: is there a particular study guide company/prep course you recommend to your students?


It depends on their goals and resources. With someone with unlimited time and a goal of 170+ I'd recommend Nathan Fox (stimulus first) material to start because I think it helps build fundamentals in the proper way that pay off past the mid 160s plateau. That's with the understanding that I'm available 1 on 1 to help them get through specific questions they've identified while studying. With someone with limited time/resources and/or a lower goal (160ish) I'd probably recommend either Mike Kim's stuff or the 7Sage basic, both of which are question stem first. I'm also a big believer that LG can be learned for the cost of the games and the 7Sage videos and that any student serious about scoring 170+ should be able to go 0-2 wrong on LG without exception. That's why I think it's the best idea for someone with only thirty days.


Thank you! How have you found Fox's LG material? Is it much different from 7Sage? Also, what do you think the biggest benefit of reading stim first? I'm starting to plateau in the mid-160s and wondering if my stem first approach might be holding me back?
Last edited by Barack O'Drama on Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

Postby AJordan » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:57 am

Fox's focus on "worlds", his words, is something that I think is beneficial to save time and increase understanding of how games are written. It's an efficient strategy, but it's by no means unique. I think that LG can be done almost entirely learning through brute force with the free 7Sage videos. If you're too slow or missing things you just haven't studied enough. LG is the one section where I really don't think reusing test material hurts. There are what, 300 published logic games? They're all usable imo, even the old ones from the long, long ago.

If you're already mid 160s I think refining is going to be extremely individual specific. My recommendation would be to find a well-regarded local tutor to go over a few LR sections with you to identify your errors. 7Sage has published answers for every LR question so at the minimum it might be valuable to pit your argument for your answer against JY's. I very rarely end up thinking that my argument has as much merit as his. Sometimes one alternate point of view is enough to make you see things differently.

I think stim first is a better method because, from tutoring, I see past students blazing through stimuli and missing key words because "I know what I'm looking for". They're not scoring poorly but they're also missing questions that they should get. That's an incredibly divisive debate and I'm not saying I'm definitely right. I just have my opinion and it's fairly strong.
Last edited by AJordan on Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

Postby abujabal » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:17 am

Law 202x wrote:As a result, I see no reason in fashioning the mind to perform a task which it is unlikely to have to perform. I am not at all uninformed about the LSAT, what it tests and how it tests it. I'm a quite decent taker of standardized tests and I'm sure with proper education and patience and investment, I could become a highly competitive LSAT taker. But that would be boring and I want to avoid turning it into something I dislike. My major gift to people concerned about an upcoming exam is don't worry. Jesus once said, "Who by worrying can add a cubit to his stature?" Later he said, "Worry not for the morrow. For the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the troubles thereof." And so therefore I say if you will study today, fine and if you won't study today, fine. But don't let it eat at you.



oh this post is a gift all right

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Barack O'Drama

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Re: What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

Postby Barack O'Drama » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:26 am

AJordan wrote:Fox's focus on "worlds", his words, is something that I think is beneficial to save time and increase understanding of how games are written. It's an efficient strategy, but it's by no means unique. I think that LG can be done almost entirely learning through brute force with the free 7Sage videos. If you're too slow or missing things you just haven't studied enough. LG is the one section where I really don't think reusing test material hurts. There are what, 300 published logic games? They're all usable imo, even the old ones from the long, long ago.

If you're already mid 160s I think refining is going to be extremely individual specific. My recommendation would be to find a well-regarded local tutor to go over a few LR sections with you to identify your errors. 7Sage has published answers for every LR question so at the minimum it might be valuable to pit your argument for your answer against JY's. I very rarely end up thinking that my argument has as much merit as his. Sometimes one alternate point of view is enough to make you see things differently.

I think stim first is a better method because, from tutoring, I see past students blazing through stimuli and missing key words because "I know what I'm looking for". They're not scoring poorly but they're also missing questions that they should get. That's an incredibly divisive debate and I'm not saying I'm definitely right. I just have my opinion and it's fairly strong.


Thank you very much! Appreciate your thoughtful responses. Would you say it's worth me checking out Fox's Logic Games PlayBook/LR Encyclopedia at this point in my prep? I regularly miss between 3-5 in LR sections and 4-6 on LG. I've been using 7Sage but I'm always open to trying new things. Planning on taking in June/September of this year.
Last edited by Barack O'Drama on Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

Postby Law 202x » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:37 am

I've been practicing from LSAT Super Prep 1. The AR sections in there are insanely difficult. Feb 96, 99, and 00 are the tests contained in that book I think. Why are they so hard? When I looked at some top 10 lists of hardest logic games, the majority seem to come from the 1990s and early 2000s. Is that a theme? I don't have near as much trouble on the newer tests like Preptests 70+. The main problem there is running out of time before I can finish all of the questions. But these older tests seem to have different setups and more combinations and permutations than on the newer forms.

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Re: What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

Postby Law 202x » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:37 am

Did anyone find Super Prep 1 inordinately difficult compared to newer exams?

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Re: What would a 30 day crash course in LSAT prep look like

Postby Law 202x » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:06 am

Barack O'Drama wrote:
Law 202x wrote:Did anyone find Super Prep 1 inordinately difficult compared to newer exams?


the LG on those kicked my ass. I thought the LR/RC was easier? However, I only did PT A and B and that was when I first started prepping before I took a long hiatus and actually started prepping the right way, lol.


Well, the bad news is that old games can come back at any time but the good news is is that there does appear to be a trend. 90s was hard 2010s are easier for the most part. I do find today's LR and RC sections a bit harder than the older tests but this is made up for by an easier AR. I'm learning little by little, but I'm not sure what can reasonably be done in the next 15 days.



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