Advice

kiklavan
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Advice

Postby kiklavan » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:25 pm

I've been studying for the LSAT full-time since June. I have recently been retaking PTs 50+ to prepare for the December LSAT after having cancelled my September score.

My retake scores are obviously very inflated, typically around 173-178, but I genuinely think through the logic on every problem & remain true to that. After doing many, many practice problems & PTs, I strongly feel that I have been exposed to material on every single PT. Today, I took PT 81 (my last new PT), and came out with a 166 (-4 RC, -9 LR, -1 LG). This was the first new test I took since the September LSAT. Upon blind review, the majority of my LR mistakes were dumb & that I made as a result of spending too much time on more difficult questions and then attempting to breeze by the remaining questions. But needless to say I am very demoralized and don't know where to go from here. I should not still be getting the same score I was getting in September, but at the same time I really don't know what more I can add to my prep that I haven't already. Also, I'm officially out of PTs so I have no idea how to gauge where I'm at. Does anyone have any advice based on their own experience? Is it time to just throw in the towel and admit I've hit my ceiling?

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Rupert Pupkin
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Re: Advice

Postby Rupert Pupkin » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:25 pm

Redoing PTs is fine. You may recognize a question and be like "ooo I remember that" but For MOST cases I highly doubt you will remember the answer and you will still have to think logically through each one unless you reviewed the exam extensively recently. Just start with your least recent PTs and do them over.

Just keep grinding. Im in a similar position with having done the Bibles then the Trainer and MH series.. I am reviewing the MH and Trainer for my weaker question types and doing a little bit of q-type drilling, but I think going through a new book on fundamentals in entirety is a waste of time and Im better off doing timed sections and PTs with extensive review.

kiklavan
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Re: Advice

Postby kiklavan » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:16 am

Rupert Pupkin wrote:Redoing PTs is fine. You may recognize a question and be like "ooo I remember that" but For MOST cases I highly doubt you will remember the answer and you will still have to think logically through each one unless you reviewed the exam extensively recently. Just start with your least recent PTs and do them over.

Just keep grinding. Im in a similar position with having done the Bibles then the Trainer and MH series.. I am reviewing the MH and Trainer for my weaker question types and doing a little bit of q-type drilling, but I think going through a new book on fundamentals in entirety is a waste of time and Im better off doing timed sections and PTs with extensive review.


Thanks for this! I also feel that re-reading books about fundamentals would be ineffective.. I really wish I had more tests at my disposal though. Today was a reality-check that I wasn't expecting.

I'm torn right now as to whether I should just assume I'm going to end with a mid 160s score or whether I'll actually end up reaching the 170s. Not sure at what point it's time to just re-evaluate top-choices for schools & such.

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tanes25
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Re: Advice

Postby tanes25 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:35 am

I haven't tried but I've heard someone suggest try making all wrong AC correct for that question type. The idea is that you'll be getting practice noticing a SA AC or a particular flaw type. You mentioned you took too long on some questions. I would brush up on those question types and find out why you took too long. For me I notice that if I take too long it's because I either don't understand the passage or I'm a bit shaky on the task for the question type. I would also implement some sort of skipping strategy. You've recognized that you're spending too much time on certain questions at the expense of others so now you have to realize this much quicker and save those for the end. This is a hard one for me because most times I don't even realize that I'm spending too much time. I've heard ppl suggest recording yourself to figure this out. I haven't made it that far though.

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Rupert Pupkin
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Re: Advice

Postby Rupert Pupkin » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:41 am

kiklavan wrote:
Rupert Pupkin wrote:Redoing PTs is fine. You may recognize a question and be like "ooo I remember that" but For MOST cases I highly doubt you will remember the answer and you will still have to think logically through each one unless you reviewed the exam extensively recently. Just start with your least recent PTs and do them over.

Just keep grinding. Im in a similar position with having done the Bibles then the Trainer and MH series.. I am reviewing the MH and Trainer for my weaker question types and doing a little bit of q-type drilling, but I think going through a new book on fundamentals in entirety is a waste of time and Im better off doing timed sections and PTs with extensive review.


Thanks for this! I also feel that re-reading books about fundamentals would be ineffective.. I really wish I had more tests at my disposal though. Today was a reality-check that I wasn't expecting.

I'm torn right now as to whether I should just assume I'm going to end with a mid 160s score or whether I'll actually end up reaching the 170s. Not sure at what point it's time to just re-evaluate top-choices for schools & such.


Yeah it is tough, but you gotta just re-focus. If you want to work towards a 170 and go to a T14 (or whatever your goal school is) then go for it. Dont be discouraged. If your previous PTs were that high then you definitely have what it takes and the recent PT you could have just been off your game.

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sodomojo
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Re: Advice

Postby sodomojo » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:07 am

Anyone have thoughts on doing fresh but super old PTs (as in from the 1990s) versus redoing recent PTs that you did 2ish months ago?

kiklavan
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Re: Advice

Postby kiklavan » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:50 pm

tanes25 wrote:I haven't tried but I've heard someone suggest try making all wrong AC correct for that question type. The idea is that you'll be getting practice noticing a SA AC or a particular flaw type. You mentioned you took too long on some questions. I would brush up on those question types and find out why you took too long. For me I notice that if I take too long it's because I either don't understand the passage or I'm a bit shaky on the task for the question type. I would also implement some sort of skipping strategy. You've recognized that you're spending too much time on certain questions at the expense of others so now you have to realize this much quicker and save those for the end. This is a hard one for me because most times I don't even realize that I'm spending too much time. I've heard ppl suggest recording yourself to figure this out. I haven't made it that far though.


Thanks for the advice! I've been trying to collect all of my missed questions and reviewing them repeatedly. The lack of skipping strategy you mentioned is what's really holding me back. I've been trying to do 10 in 10, 15 in 15, etc. but I seem to forfeit it for the sake of one question or two often lol

kiklavan
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Re: Advice

Postby kiklavan » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:53 pm

sodomojo wrote:Anyone have thoughts on doing fresh but super old PTs (as in from the 1990s) versus redoing recent PTs that you did 2ish months ago?


You should do the old PTs as PTs but review the more recent tests as practice/drilling. The old tests still have immense value even if a few things might be different with more recent tests. Also, in recent years there has been a reappearance of odd/pattern games that resemble what showed up on early tests, so coming across those would give you an advantage too.

kiklavan
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Re: Advice

Postby kiklavan » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:54 pm

Rupert Pupkin wrote:
kiklavan wrote:
Rupert Pupkin wrote:Redoing PTs is fine. You may recognize a question and be like "ooo I remember that" but For MOST cases I highly doubt you will remember the answer and you will still have to think logically through each one unless you reviewed the exam extensively recently. Just start with your least recent PTs and do them over.

Just keep grinding. Im in a similar position with having done the Bibles then the Trainer and MH series.. I am reviewing the MH and Trainer for my weaker question types and doing a little bit of q-type drilling, but I think going through a new book on fundamentals in entirety is a waste of time and Im better off doing timed sections and PTs with extensive review.


Thanks for this! I also feel that re-reading books about fundamentals would be ineffective.. I really wish I had more tests at my disposal though. Today was a reality-check that I wasn't expecting.

I'm torn right now as to whether I should just assume I'm going to end with a mid 160s score or whether I'll actually end up reaching the 170s. Not sure at what point it's time to just re-evaluate top-choices for schools & such.


Yeah it is tough, but you gotta just re-focus. If you want to work towards a 170 and go to a T14 (or whatever your goal school is) then go for it. Dont be discouraged. If your previous PTs were that high then you definitely have what it takes and the recent PT you could have just been off your game.


Thank you :)

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JazzOne
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Re: Advice

Postby JazzOne » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:22 pm

If I were prepping for a retake, and if I had exhausted all the PTs, I would spend a lot of time reviewing the last 10 PrepTests. I would go though every one of them slowly, picking apart the details and looking for patterns and shortcuts.

kiklavan
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Re: Advice

Postby kiklavan » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:27 pm

JazzOne wrote:If I were prepping for a retake, and if I had exhausted all the PTs, I would spend a lot of time reviewing the last 10 PrepTests. I would go though every one of them slowly, picking apart the details and looking for patterns and shortcuts.


Any thoughts on how exactly to do this? I've been circling questions I have less than 99% certainty on (as to why the correct answer is correct or a wrong answer choice is wrong) & writing out explanations for each answer choice. Is there any approach I'm missing?

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JazzOne
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Re: Advice

Postby JazzOne » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:52 pm

kiklavan wrote:
JazzOne wrote:If I were prepping for a retake, and if I had exhausted all the PTs, I would spend a lot of time reviewing the last 10 PrepTests. I would go though every one of them slowly, picking apart the details and looking for patterns and shortcuts.


Any thoughts on how exactly to do this? I've been circling questions I have less than 99% certainty on (as to why the correct answer is correct or a wrong answer choice is wrong) & writing out explanations for each answer choice. Is there any approach I'm missing?

I got a lot of benefit from untimed drilling of questions I had already done. Since I was already familiar with the questions, I was able to focus more on process.

Whenever I repeat a game, argument, or RC passage, I ask myself, "What should I have done differently the first time?" Then, I make it a point to do that. It sounds contrived, but there's no way to predict what will be on the LSAT, so the only thing you can do is try to perfect your strategy for past exams. When I repeat games, I look for EVERY deduction, and I play out every chance to the end. When I review RC, I re-read the entire passage, annotate it, and make note of what kind of details the questions tend to focus on.

In another thread, someone suggested taking all the wrong answer choices for LR and turning them into correct answer choices. That seems like a good idea to me. Also, you could go back and do some of the PrepTests you took months ago, but give yourself 30 or 32 minutes per section instead of 35. I've heard that works well too.

Good luck!

kiklavan
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Re: Advice

Postby kiklavan » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:53 pm

JazzOne wrote:
kiklavan wrote:
JazzOne wrote:If I were prepping for a retake, and if I had exhausted all the PTs, I would spend a lot of time reviewing the last 10 PrepTests. I would go though every one of them slowly, picking apart the details and looking for patterns and shortcuts.


Any thoughts on how exactly to do this? I've been circling questions I have less than 99% certainty on (as to why the correct answer is correct or a wrong answer choice is wrong) & writing out explanations for each answer choice. Is there any approach I'm missing?

I got a lot of benefit from untimed drilling of questions I had already done. Since I was already familiar with the questions, I was able to focus more on process.

Whenever I repeat a game, argument, or RC passage, I ask myself, "What should I have done differently the first time?" Then, I make it a point to do that. It sounds contrived, but there's no way to predict what will be on the LSAT, so the only thing you can do is try to perfect your strategy for past exams. When I repeat games, I look for EVERY deduction, and I play out every chance to the end. When I review RC, I re-read the entire passage, annotate it, and make note of what kind of details the questions tend to focus on.

In another thread, someone suggested taking all the wrong answer choices for LR and turning them into correct answer choices. That seems like a good idea to me. Also, you could go back and do some of the PrepTests you took months ago, but give yourself 30 or 32 minutes per section instead of 35. I've heard that works well too.

Good luck!


Clever. Thanks a lot!

foodlaw
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Re: Advice

Postby foodlaw » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:59 pm

I'm in a similar boat.. I've exhausted all my prep material so I'm forced to do retakes. My section breakdowns seem to be similar to yours as well. I was averaging -4/5 on each LR section. What are you planning on doing to improve on LR?

kiklavan
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Re: Advice

Postby kiklavan » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:56 pm

foodlaw wrote:I'm in a similar boat.. I've exhausted all my prep material so I'm forced to do retakes. My section breakdowns seem to be similar to yours as well. I was averaging -4/5 on each LR section. What are you planning on doing to improve on LR?


I think I've realized my main problems with LR have a lot to do with skim reading, not reading all the answer choices, and spending a lot of time on problems I should be moving on from. I'm trying to work on that but it's pretty hard to do when I've exhausted all prep material lol. I also feel that I have a tendency to throw out all that I've taught myself throughout my prep in LR as I'm actually taking the test... something of a fight or flight response, particularly when I run out of time. So I'm trying to be more conscious of that too. I typically write out why the right answer is right and why the wrong answers are wrong and then try to figure out what I'll do the next time to avoid the same mistake.

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JazzOne
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Re: Advice

Postby JazzOne » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:09 am

kiklavan wrote:I also feel that I have a tendency to throw out all that I've taught myself throughout my prep in LR as I'm actually taking the test... something of a fight or flight response, particularly when I run out of time.

In that case, I think retaking PTs is perfect for you. It's one thing to know the correct strategy. It's another thing to know it so well that you can implement it without a second thought. Pick the LR questions apart slowly, and be hyper-conscious about strategy. Articulate exactly what you're going to do and why. For example, when I read a certain question type, I already know, before I even read the argument, what kinds of patterns I'm looking for.

kiklavan
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Re: Advice

Postby kiklavan » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:27 am

JazzOne wrote:
kiklavan wrote:I also feel that I have a tendency to throw out all that I've taught myself throughout my prep in LR as I'm actually taking the test... something of a fight or flight response, particularly when I run out of time.

In that case, I think retaking PTs is perfect for you. It's one thing to know the correct strategy. It's another thing to know it so well that you can implement it without a second thought. Pick the LR questions apart slowly, and be hyper-conscious about strategy. Articulate exactly what you're going to do and why. For example, when I read a certain question type, I already know, before I even read the argument, what kinds of patterns I'm looking for.


Is there any way that I can gauge where I'm at before the September test while doing retakes? It's killing me that I'm scoring 175-180 on tests I already took but that the last fresh test I took was a 166.

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JazzOne
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Re: Advice

Postby JazzOne » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:06 am

kiklavan wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
kiklavan wrote:I also feel that I have a tendency to throw out all that I've taught myself throughout my prep in LR as I'm actually taking the test... something of a fight or flight response, particularly when I run out of time.

In that case, I think retaking PTs is perfect for you. It's one thing to know the correct strategy. It's another thing to know it so well that you can implement it without a second thought. Pick the LR questions apart slowly, and be hyper-conscious about strategy. Articulate exactly what you're going to do and why. For example, when I read a certain question type, I already know, before I even read the argument, what kinds of patterns I'm looking for.


Is there any way that I can gauge where I'm at before the September test while doing retakes? It's killing me that I'm scoring 175-180 on tests I already took but that the last fresh test I took was a 166.

PrepTest 82 should be out soon. PrepTest 83 will come out around February or so. You might even be able to get PrepTest 84 before September.

kiklavan
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Re: Advice

Postby kiklavan » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:37 pm

JazzOne wrote:
kiklavan wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
kiklavan wrote:I also feel that I have a tendency to throw out all that I've taught myself throughout my prep in LR as I'm actually taking the test... something of a fight or flight response, particularly when I run out of time.

In that case, I think retaking PTs is perfect for you. It's one thing to know the correct strategy. It's another thing to know it so well that you can implement it without a second thought. Pick the LR questions apart slowly, and be hyper-conscious about strategy. Articulate exactly what you're going to do and why. For example, when I read a certain question type, I already know, before I even read the argument, what kinds of patterns I'm looking for.


Is there any way that I can gauge where I'm at before the September test while doing retakes? It's killing me that I'm scoring 175-180 on tests I already took but that the last fresh test I took was a 166.

PrepTest 82 should be out soon. PrepTest 83 will come out around February or so. You might even be able to get PrepTest 84 before September.


Sorry I meant before December..

foodlaw
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Re: Advice

Postby foodlaw » Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:40 pm

kiklavan wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
kiklavan wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
kiklavan wrote:I also feel that I have a tendency to throw out all that I've taught myself throughout my prep in LR as I'm actually taking the test... something of a fight or flight response, particularly when I run out of time.

In that case, I think retaking PTs is perfect for you. It's one thing to know the correct strategy. It's another thing to know it so well that you can implement it without a second thought. Pick the LR questions apart slowly, and be hyper-conscious about strategy. Articulate exactly what you're going to do and why. For example, when I read a certain question type, I already know, before I even read the argument, what kinds of patterns I'm looking for.


Is there any way that I can gauge where I'm at before the September test while doing retakes? It's killing me that I'm scoring 175-180 on tests I already took but that the last fresh test I took was a 166.

PrepTest 82 should be out soon. PrepTest 83 will come out around February or so. You might even be able to get PrepTest 84 before September.


Sorry I meant before December..


Have you taken C2? Or even A, B, C? I know A, B, C is old, but maybe you should try seeing if your strategies are working on a fresh old pt?

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JazzOne
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Re: Advice

Postby JazzOne » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:16 pm

kiklavan wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
kiklavan wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
kiklavan wrote:I also feel that I have a tendency to throw out all that I've taught myself throughout my prep in LR as I'm actually taking the test... something of a fight or flight response, particularly when I run out of time.

In that case, I think retaking PTs is perfect for you. It's one thing to know the correct strategy. It's another thing to know it so well that you can implement it without a second thought. Pick the LR questions apart slowly, and be hyper-conscious about strategy. Articulate exactly what you're going to do and why. For example, when I read a certain question type, I already know, before I even read the argument, what kinds of patterns I'm looking for.


Is there any way that I can gauge where I'm at before the September test while doing retakes? It's killing me that I'm scoring 175-180 on tests I already took but that the last fresh test I took was a 166.

PrepTest 82 should be out soon. PrepTest 83 will come out around February or so. You might even be able to get PrepTest 84 before September.


Sorry I meant before December..

Since you've already seen PT82 (your canceled test), you won't be able to take another recent PT before December. I wouldn't worry about it though. I would focus on dissecting the last 10 exams.

kiklavan
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Re: Advice

Postby kiklavan » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:29 pm

foodlaw wrote:
kiklavan wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
kiklavan wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
kiklavan wrote:I also feel that I have a tendency to throw out all that I've taught myself throughout my prep in LR as I'm actually taking the test... something of a fight or flight response, particularly when I run out of time.

In that case, I think retaking PTs is perfect for you. It's one thing to know the correct strategy. It's another thing to know it so well that you can implement it without a second thought. Pick the LR questions apart slowly, and be hyper-conscious about strategy. Articulate exactly what you're going to do and why. For example, when I read a certain question type, I already know, before I even read the argument, what kinds of patterns I'm looking for.


Is there any way that I can gauge where I'm at before the September test while doing retakes? It's killing me that I'm scoring 175-180 on tests I already took but that the last fresh test I took was a 166.

PrepTest 82 should be out soon. PrepTest 83 will come out around February or so. You might even be able to get PrepTest 84 before September.


Sorry I meant before December..


Have you taken C2? Or even A, B, C? I know A, B, C is old, but maybe you should try seeing if your strategies are working on a fresh old pt?


OMG. I forgot about C2. Thank you so much for this!!!!




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