Top Law Schools

Alexandros wrote:

Platopus wrote:0 sympathy for students at TTT's. There are so many resources available for free, that it completely blows my mind that some people don't even put in the slightest effort to verify facts and interpret data, or worse: willfully ignore data and assume they will be special. I don't even want to get started about the LSAT. I tried relentlessly to talk an ex-girlfriend from attending Depaul at sticker, but she refused to even hear what the bar passage rate was, and she be came infuriated when I asked her how she planned on servicing $200K in debt.

Also, I am very skeptical of the claim that law schools are predatory. Unless, like U of Illinois, they are blatantly falsifying data and misrepresenting facts, then it falls on the student for either 1) not checking the data or 2) falling to accurately make sense of the data. Bar passage rates are a required disclosure. Scholarship stipulations are given to you clearly before you attend. Employment statistics are only misleading if you fail to do your due diligence in actually interpreting the data. Skittles aren't predatory for claiming they are "Fat Free", because they are, you're an idiot if you fail to consider that 50 grams of sugar may also make you fat. Same goes for law schools. A 68% employment rate is a factual statement if 68% of students are employed, even if only 5% have actual legal jobs; it's your fault if you fail to make that distinction, and these distinctions are widely available through the internet.

Sure, I was a bit lucky finding TLS my senior year in high school. But before TLS I read Richard Montauk's "How to get into Top Law Schools", and then I went online to actually verify that this guy was telling the truth, and he was. So I got my act together and studied my ass off in college because I read a book I independently verified to have factual information, and then applied myself. The moment my pre-law advisor mentioned Princeton Law, I was skeptical because I hadn't ever heard of Princeton law. After spending .02 seconds googling Princeton Law, I realized this guy was an idiot and subsequently discarded the rest of his advice.

/rantover

Law schools are educational institutions, not skittles. There are, and will always be, people who fall for traps. Law schools should provide education, not take advantage of those least able to make informed decisions.

Platopus wrote:0 sympathy for students at TTT's. There are so many resources available for free, that it completely blows my mind that some people don't even put in the slightest effort to verify facts and interpret data, or worse: willfully ignore data and assume they will be special. I don't even want to get started about the LSAT. I tried relentlessly to talk an ex-girlfriend from attending Depaul at sticker, but she refused to even hear what the bar passage rate was, and she be came infuriated when I asked her how she planned on servicing $200K in debt.

Also, I am very skeptical of the claim that law schools are predatory. Unless, like U of Illinois, they are blatantly falsifying data and misrepresenting facts, then it falls on the student for either 1) not checking the data or 2) falling to accurately make sense of the data. Bar passage rates are a required disclosure. Scholarship stipulations are given to you clearly before you attend. Employment statistics are only misleading if you fail to do your due diligence in actually interpreting the data. Skittles aren't predatory for claiming they are "Fat Free", because they are, you're an idiot if you fail to consider that 50 grams of sugar may also make you fat. Same goes for law schools. A 68% employment rate is a factual statement if 68% of students are employed, even if only 5% have actual legal jobs; it's your fault if you fail to make that distinction, and these distinctions are widely available through the internet.

Sure, I was a bit lucky finding TLS my senior year in high school. But before TLS I read Richard Montauk's "How to get into Top Law Schools", and then I went online to actually verify that this guy was telling the truth, and he was. So I got my act together and studied my ass off in college because I read a book I independently verified to have factual information, and then applied myself. The moment my pre-law advisor mentioned Princeton Law, I was skeptical because I hadn't ever heard of Princeton law. After spending .02 seconds googling Princeton Law, I realized this guy was an idiot and subsequently discarded the rest of his advice.

/rantover

amta wrote:lol. didn't someone call me out for elitism like a week ago.

calmike wrote:Ive been playing Friday the 13th The game the past week to relieve my stress.

chargers21 wrote:

amta wrote:lol. didn't someone call me out for elitism like a week ago.

T13 or t14?

chargers21 wrote:

amta wrote:lol. didn't someone call me out for elitism like a week ago.

T13 or t14?

MediocreAtBest wrote:

Platopus wrote:0 sympathy for students at TTT's. There are so many resources available for free, that it completely blows my mind that some people don't even put in the slightest effort to verify facts and interpret data, or worse: willfully ignore data and assume they will be special. I don't even want to get started about the LSAT. I tried relentlessly to talk an ex-girlfriend from attending Depaul at sticker, but she refused to even hear what the bar passage rate was, and she be came infuriated when I asked her how she planned on servicing $200K in debt.

Also, I am very skeptical of the claim that law schools are predatory. Unless, like U of Illinois, they are blatantly falsifying data and misrepresenting facts, then it falls on the student for either 1) not checking the data or 2) falling to accurately make sense of the data. Bar passage rates are a required disclosure. Scholarship stipulations are given to you clearly before you attend. Employment statistics are only misleading if you fail to do your due diligence in actually interpreting the data. Skittles aren't predatory for claiming they are "Fat Free", because they are, you're an idiot if you fail to consider that 50 grams of sugar may also make you fat. Same goes for law schools. A 68% employment rate is a factual statement if 68% of students are employed, even if only 5% have actual legal jobs; it's your fault if you fail to make that distinction, and these distinctions are widely available through the internet.

Sure, I was a bit lucky finding TLS my senior year in high school. But before TLS I read Richard Montauk's "How to get into Top Law Schools", and then I went online to actually verify that this guy was telling the truth, and he was. So I got my act together and studied my ass off in college because I read a book I independently verified to have factual information, and then applied myself. The moment my pre-law advisor mentioned Princeton Law, I was skeptical because I hadn't ever heard of Princeton law. After spending .02 seconds googling Princeton Law, I realized this guy was an idiot and subsequently discarded the rest of his advice.

/rantover

I think it's predatory when a school ranked in the triple digits can have a six-figure COA because they know they can rely on loans that young people can be prone to take, or when they hire their own graduates to temporarily boost their employment numbers. Not everyone is going to sift through every school's ABA disclosures and cross-reference all the information they get, and maybe this actually plays into your argument, but I think these things are made more complicated than they need to be simply to attract people who probably shouldn't go to law school, particularly in TTTs and below. Skittles are Skittles, but selling yourself as a place of higher learning that will provide candidates with amazing job prospects while knowing you're providing no such thing is just unsavory. It's why the term "trap schools" even exists.

There's just a slimy element to law schools that prevents me from blaming someone 100% for making a mistake when it comes to attending one.

NavyNuke wrote:I have now written the first draft of my ps and resume, requested my 3 LORs, and watched both seasons of Master of None. Time to commence repeated email and LSAC page refreshing.

Alexandros wrote:

Platopus wrote:

MediocreAtBest wrote:

Platopus wrote:0 sympathy for students at TTT's. There are so many resources available for free, that it completely blows my mind that some people don't even put in the slightest effort to verify facts and interpret data, or worse: willfully ignore data and assume they will be special. I don't even want to get started about the LSAT. I tried relentlessly to talk an ex-girlfriend from attending Depaul at sticker, but she refused to even hear what the bar passage rate was, and she be came infuriated when I asked her how she planned on servicing $200K in debt.

Also, I am very skeptical of the claim that law schools are predatory. Unless, like U of Illinois, they are blatantly falsifying data and misrepresenting facts, then it falls on the student for either 1) not checking the data or 2) falling to accurately make sense of the data. Bar passage rates are a required disclosure. Scholarship stipulations are given to you clearly before you attend. Employment statistics are only misleading if you fail to do your due diligence in actually interpreting the data. Skittles aren't predatory for claiming they are "Fat Free", because they are, you're an idiot if you fail to consider that 50 grams of sugar may also make you fat. Same goes for law schools. A 68% employment rate is a factual statement if 68% of students are employed, even if only 5% have actual legal jobs; it's your fault if you fail to make that distinction, and these distinctions are widely available through the internet.

Sure, I was a bit lucky finding TLS my senior year in high school. But before TLS I read Richard Montauk's "How to get into Top Law Schools", and then I went online to actually verify that this guy was telling the truth, and he was. So I got my act together and studied my ass off in college because I read a book I independently verified to have factual information, and then applied myself. The moment my pre-law advisor mentioned Princeton Law, I was skeptical because I hadn't ever heard of Princeton law. After spending .02 seconds googling Princeton Law, I realized this guy was an idiot and subsequently discarded the rest of his advice.

/rantover

I think it's predatory when a school ranked in the triple digits can have a six-figure COA because they know they can rely on loans that young people can be prone to take, or when they hire their own graduates to temporarily boost their employment numbers. Not everyone is going to sift through every school's ABA disclosures and cross-reference all the information they get, and maybe this actually plays into your argument, but I think these things are made more complicated than they need to be simply to attract people who probably shouldn't go to law school, particularly in TTTs and below. Skittles are Skittles, but selling yourself as a place of higher learning that will provide candidates with amazing job prospects while knowing you're providing no such thing is just unsavory. It's why the term "trap schools" even exists.

There's just a slimy element to law schools that prevents me from blaming someone 100% for making a mistake when it comes to attending one.

Perhaps I'm underestimating the implicit promises that some schools make, that said, I also think people have a responsibility to evaluate the source of the promise. A Director of Admissions should be fired if she/he isn't actively promoting the best the school can offer. I think you make a good point regarding the COA, but I see this a more global issue with law schools in general; Harvard also charges ridiculous amounts because they know people are willing to pay the price, but it's probably a bit of a stretch to call Harvard predatory.

There's a huge difference between a high COA and a degree that provides the opportunity to be employed as a lawyer and pay off the debt incurred, and a high COA for a useless degree. That's an absurd comparison.

You're right - A Director of Admissions should be fired for not doing their job. And a law school that can't do its job as a law school shouldn't be one.

amta wrote:lol. didn't someone call me out for elitism like a week ago.

Alexandros wrote: High COA combined with low odds of working as a lawyer and making up for the cost of the degree.'

Alexandros wrote: I don't think any are, so this seems like a purely philosophical point. But even a perfectly transparent law school that meets the criteria above shouldn't exist - whether that makes it "predatory" or not is a matter of semantics.

it's allgood wrote:Please don't kill me for asking this, but what does TTT mean????

Slippin' Jimmy wrote:

it's allgood wrote:Please don't kill me for asking this, but what does TTT mean????

3rd tier toilet.