Anything change going from 170 to 180?

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conker
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Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby conker » Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:11 pm

Just wondering if any new or specific study habits generally need to start being implemented to consistently move your PT scores from hovering around 172 to hovering around 178, or if you just keep on chuggin'.

It might not help that I miss most on RC (4). I do still miss 2 each LR, which should be phased out by repetition.

Bach-City
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Re: Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby Bach-City » Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:39 pm

conker wrote:Just wondering if any new or specific study habits generally need to start being implemented to consistently move your PT scores from hovering around 172 to hovering around 178, or if you just keep on chuggin'.

It might not help that I miss most on RC (4). I do still miss 2 each LR, which should be phased out by repetition.


Honestly it was just doing it over and over again. Eventually you start cutting through easy questions like butter, which gives you the ability to tackle hard questions more relaxedly. It's just grinding through.

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conker
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Re: Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby conker » Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:43 pm

Bach-City wrote:
Honestly it was just doing it over and over again. Eventually you start cutting through easy questions like butter, which gives you the ability to tackle hard questions more relaxedly. It's just grinding through.


Yeah, that's what I figured, man. 'Preciate the input.

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MediocreAtBest
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Re: Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby MediocreAtBest » Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:17 am

172 requires killing it. 178 requires out of your mind slaughtering. That's all really.

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Re: Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby Bach-City » Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:27 pm

conker wrote:
Bach-City wrote:
Honestly it was just doing it over and over again. Eventually you start cutting through easy questions like butter, which gives you the ability to tackle hard questions more relaxedly. It's just grinding through.


Yeah, that's what I figured, man. 'Preciate the input.


I kind of liken it to learning a language. I didn't use any books or classes, just took practice LSATs over and over. Eventually I just learned to speak LSAT fluently. All about practice.

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Re: Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby Pozzo » Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:55 pm

conker wrote:Just wondering if any new or specific study habits generally need to start being implemented to consistently move your PT scores from hovering around 172 to hovering around 178, or if you just keep on chuggin'.

It might not help that I miss most on RC (4). I do still miss 2 each LR, which should be phased out by repetition.

Agree with others that it's all about practice at this point, but you need to make sure it's good practice. You have the basics down now. It's all about honing in on why you got specific questions wrong and not repeating those mistakes in the future. If you don't already blind review, do that. Additionally, any question you get wrong, write down why you got it wrong, why each incorrect answer is incorrect, and why the correct answer is correct.

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conker
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Re: Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby conker » Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:04 pm

Bach-City wrote:
I kind of liken it to learning a language. I didn't use any books or classes, just took practice LSATs over and over. Eventually I just learned to speak LSAT fluently. All about practice.


That's true. I wasted a lot of time going through the PowerScore Bibles before knowing better. Looking back, I learned a couple tricks, but it was so inefficient that I would recommend people avoid them and do as you suggest.

I suggest having test explanations for the first several dozen PTs, then saving your money and mastering the craft on the rest (you shouldn't need explanations at that point). Someone got me Kaplan explanations 1-60 off Megaupload before the feds took it down as a gift. I owe them one.

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conker
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Re: Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby conker » Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:07 pm

Pozzo wrote:Agree with others that it's all about practice at this point, but you need to make sure it's good practice. You have the basics down now. It's all about honing in on why you got specific questions wrong and not repeating those mistakes in the future. If you don't already blind review, do that. Additionally, any question you get wrong, write down why you got it wrong, why each incorrect answer is incorrect, and why the correct answer is correct.


Thanks, Pozzo. I think this is good advice. I think that as I accumulate more PTs, the benefits of these methods will accumulate, as well. Currently, I have been using these methods, but I am only 10 PTs in. I think it is a little too early to see their full potential. While I have stopped missing LG problems, honing in on the RC patterns will take more time, it seems.

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Re: Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby Slippin' Jimmy » Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:33 pm

conker wrote:
Bach-City wrote:
I kind of liken it to learning a language. I didn't use any books or classes, just took practice LSATs over and over. Eventually I just learned to speak LSAT fluently. All about practice.


That's true. I wasted a lot of time going through the PowerScore Bibles before knowing better. Looking back, I learned a couple tricks, but it was so inefficient that I would recommend people avoid them and do as you suggest.

I suggest having test explanations for the first several dozen PTs, then saving your money and mastering the craft on the rest (you shouldn't need explanations at that point). Someone got me Kaplan explanations 1-60 off Megaupload before the feds took it down as a gift. I owe them one.


While I actually do agree with you on the Powerscore materials (I'm not a fan), the optimal approach is still not going right into PTs. I think you should still follow some kind of program first, preferably 7sage.

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conker
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Re: Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby conker » Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:01 pm

Slippin' Jimmy wrote:
While I actually do agree with you on the Powerscore materials (I'm not a fan), the optimal approach is still not going right into PTs. I think you should still follow some kind of program first, preferably 7sage.


I think I may be underestimating the importance of just acclimating to the LSAT, so good comment.

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Re: Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby Bach-City » Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:06 pm

conker wrote:
Slippin' Jimmy wrote:
While I actually do agree with you on the Powerscore materials (I'm not a fan), the optimal approach is still not going right into PTs. I think you should still follow some kind of program first, preferably 7sage.


I think I may be underestimating the importance of just acclimating to the LSAT, so good comment.


Might be optimal for some people, but I personally got to the 178/179 range on my last few practice tests before the exam with a pure PT approach. I think it really depends on the person.

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Re: Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby MediocreAtBest » Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:12 pm

Bach-City wrote:
conker wrote:
Slippin' Jimmy wrote:
While I actually do agree with you on the Powerscore materials (I'm not a fan), the optimal approach is still not going right into PTs. I think you should still follow some kind of program first, preferably 7sage.


I think I may be underestimating the importance of just acclimating to the LSAT, so good comment.


Might be optimal for some people, but I personally got to the 178/179 range on my last few practice tests before the exam with a pure PT approach. I think it really depends on the person.


I think once you pass the 170 threshold, the programs become a little irrelevant to you. They're great starting points, but after you make a certain amount of progress, they won't help you as much as PTs. It happened to me, I broke 170 before I finished my PS books, and I was a little more "advanced" than what the books were teaching me. Having some sort of foundation is very helpful though, I think.

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conker
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Re: Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby conker » Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:02 pm

Bach-City wrote:
Might be optimal for some people, but I personally got to the 178/179 range on my last few practice tests before the exam with a pure PT approach. I think it really depends on the person.


Sweet! Congrats, man. I'll let you know when I catch up : D

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Re: Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby Bach-City » Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:00 pm

conker wrote:
Bach-City wrote:
Might be optimal for some people, but I personally got to the 178/179 range on my last few practice tests before the exam with a pure PT approach. I think it really depends on the person.


Sweet! Congrats, man. I'll let you know when I catch up : D


Please do. And feel free to DM for advice.

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Re: Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby zkyggi » Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:55 pm

Bach-City wrote:
conker wrote:
Slippin' Jimmy wrote:
While I actually do agree with you on the Powerscore materials (I'm not a fan), the optimal approach is still not going right into PTs. I think you should still follow some kind of program first, preferably 7sage.


I think I may be underestimating the importance of just acclimating to the LSAT, so good comment.


Might be optimal for some people, but I personally got to the 178/179 range on my last few practice tests before the exam with a pure PT approach. I think it really depends on the person.


I agree with this. I reccomend Powerscore to everybody but personally I hated reading through it for LR and RC. For me, scoring better really came down to putting concepts I already knew into practice on the LSAT questions. Moving to -0/-1 consistently on LR was probably 80% rooting out stupid mistakes and 20% actually learning the material. If somebody is trying to reach the 160s, for example, I can totally see a PT-focused approach as inefficient. Once you get into the 160s, usually you are either bombing a section outright or making the mistakes that the LSAT writers want you to make (rushing, skimming, going into ACs without understanding the stim, etc). If it is the latter, then I reccomend as many PTs/sections as possible without burning out. I have done almost 70 PTs including retakes, which are just as, if not more, valuable than fresh takes.

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Re: Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby Slippin' Jimmy » Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:59 pm

zkyggi wrote:
Bach-City wrote:
conker wrote:
Slippin' Jimmy wrote:
While I actually do agree with you on the Powerscore materials (I'm not a fan), the optimal approach is still not going right into PTs. I think you should still follow some kind of program first, preferably 7sage.


I think I may be underestimating the importance of just acclimating to the LSAT, so good comment.


Might be optimal for some people, but I personally got to the 178/179 range on my last few practice tests before the exam with a pure PT approach. I think it really depends on the person.


I agree with this. I reccomend Powerscore to everybody but personally I hated reading through it for LR and RC. For me, scoring better really came down to putting concepts I already knew into practice on the LSAT questions. Moving to -0/-1 consistently on LR was probably 80% rooting out stupid mistakes and 20% actually learning the material. If somebody is trying to reach the 160s, for example, I can totally see a PT-focused approach as inefficient. Once you get into the 160s, usually you are either bombing a section outright or making the mistakes that the LSAT writers want you to make (rushing, skimming, going into ACs without understanding the stim, etc). If it is the latter, then I reccomend as many PTs/sections as possible without burning out. I have done almost 70 PTs including retakes, which are just as, if not more, valuable than fresh takes.


What I meant originally was that one shouldn't just rush into PTs right away, I do agree that once you get into the high 160s you really need to focus on just doing PTs. It seemed to me like Bach City was advocating for just skipping the books/curriculum entirely and I didn't want any lurkers to see that and get any ideas of just blindly taking PTs.

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Re: Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby Platopus » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:22 pm

Dropping my 2 cents here. I’m usually in the 173-175 range, and I’ve noticed that I usually miss 2-3 fairly "easy" questions per test. I think this is really the difference between a 172 and that 175+. I don’t think it’s a matter of getting more harder questions right, but rather not getting any “easy” questions wrong. That means no more going -1 on LG and no more “stupid mistakes”. There are usually going to be 2-3 brutal questions per test, and you can still miss those if you're shooting for a 177, you just can't miss question 8 because you misread an AC. I think figuring out why you make "stupid mistakes" is really the difference. Conceptually you clearly know what you're doing.

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Re: Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby Bach-City » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:11 am

Slippin' Jimmy wrote:
zkyggi wrote:
Bach-City wrote:
conker wrote:
Slippin' Jimmy wrote:
While I actually do agree with you on the Powerscore materials (I'm not a fan), the optimal approach is still not going right into PTs. I think you should still follow some kind of program first, preferably 7sage.


I think I may be underestimating the importance of just acclimating to the LSAT, so good comment.


Might be optimal for some people, but I personally got to the 178/179 range on my last few practice tests before the exam with a pure PT approach. I think it really depends on the person.


I agree with this. I reccomend Powerscore to everybody but personally I hated reading through it for LR and RC. For me, scoring better really came down to putting concepts I already knew into practice on the LSAT questions. Moving to -0/-1 consistently on LR was probably 80% rooting out stupid mistakes and 20% actually learning the material. If somebody is trying to reach the 160s, for example, I can totally see a PT-focused approach as inefficient. Once you get into the 160s, usually you are either bombing a section outright or making the mistakes that the LSAT writers want you to make (rushing, skimming, going into ACs without understanding the stim, etc). If it is the latter, then I reccomend as many PTs/sections as possible without burning out. I have done almost 70 PTs including retakes, which are just as, if not more, valuable than fresh takes.


What I meant originally was that one shouldn't just rush into PTs right away, I do agree that once you get into the high 160s you really need to focus on just doing PTs. It seemed to me like Bach City was advocating for just skipping the books/curriculum entirely and I didn't want any lurkers to see that and get any ideas of just blindly taking PTs.


That is exactly what I advocate for generally. Might not work for everyone, but just starting in on PTs and going until I got to 178/179 on my last few tests is my recommended technique. Different people are different of course. I just tend to think those books are written for the mass of people, and not people aiming to get into the upper reaches of the 1%. To get there I think critiquing yourself and figuring out your own way from the start is the best way to get to that 180 (or almost 180 score). But again, this is just one person's experience.

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conker
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Re: Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby conker » Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:21 pm

Platopus wrote:Dropping my 2 cents here. I’m usually in the 173-175 range, and I’ve noticed that I usually miss 2-3 fairly "easy" questions per test. I think this is really the difference between a 172 and that 175+. I don’t think it’s a matter of getting more harder questions right, but rather not getting any “easy” questions wrong. That means no more going -1 on LG and no more “stupid mistakes”. There are usually going to be 2-3 brutal questions per test, and you can still miss those if you're shooting for a 177, you just can't miss question 8 because you misread an AC. I think figuring out why you make "stupid mistakes" is really the difference. Conceptually you clearly know what you're doing.


I also miss 2-3 easy questions. I can spot the errors myself before grading. This should get phased out eventually.

I find that missing a hard question is sometimes just me sloppily interpreting a word, another bad habit.

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Re: Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby Neil_Gorsuch » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:03 pm

conker wrote:Just wondering if any new or specific study habits generally need to start being implemented to consistently move your PT scores from hovering around 172 to hovering around 178, or if you just keep on chuggin'.

It might not help that I miss most on RC (4). I do still miss 2 each LR, which should be phased out by repetition.


I'd recommend an hour or two with a tutor or instructor. It's hard to get to that level consistently without learning the tips and tricks from an experienced professional.

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Re: Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby generic noob » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:54 pm

It depends on what you need help with most I think.

People kept saying how great the Powerscore Logic Games was, but to me it wasn't that helpful because I already had my own system of diagramming, etc.

Meanwhile, I went from -8 to -2 on the RC section after two days. I had a fundamental misunderstanding on what the test writers considered "correct" -- I didn't know the difference between "logical assumption" and "must be true" until it was explicitly pointed out to me.

TL;DR Powerscore is good for getting you a stable foundation on things that you are fundamentally bad at. But general consensus seems to be preptest grinding if you want to go from good to great.

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conker
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Re: Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby conker » Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:47 pm

generic noob wrote:It depends on what you need help with most I think.

People kept saying how great the Powerscore Logic Games was, but to me it wasn't that helpful because I already had my own system of diagramming, etc.

Meanwhile, I went from -8 to -2 on the RC section after two days. I had a fundamental misunderstanding on what the test writers considered "correct" -- I didn't know the difference between "logical assumption" and "must be true" until it was explicitly pointed out to me.

TL;DR Powerscore is good for getting you a stable foundation on things that you are fundamentally bad at. But general consensus seems to be preptest grinding if you want to go from good to great.


I need to do something about RC. I miss 5 on it, and 1 on everything else, just because of timing. I am going to start drilling RC passages. How was Powerscore RC for you? I have it and have not read it.

Ironically, I majored in English Literature. I never knew I was reading too slowly.

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conker
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Re: Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby conker » Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:46 pm

Much to my pleasant surprise, I took a weeklong vacation in Chicago, came back and took a week off studying the LSAT. I just took one today and scored a 178. The RC section, what I was struggling on, was pretty easy. I just read through it casually and finished early.

I don't want to imply why this has happened, but I find it fascinating that my score jumped up from 172 to 178 without even trying.

ETA: I took to 7sage to investigate whether this was a really easy RC section altogether. 7sage rated two of them a 5/5 difficulty and two of them a 1/5 difficulty. They all seemed equally easy to me, and I didn't miss any. I guess it really was some magical thing.

Is the credited response "take a vacation" LOL

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Re: Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby jagerbom79 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:52 pm

conker wrote:Much to my pleasant surprise, I took a weeklong vacation in Chicago, came back and took a week off studying the LSAT. I just took one today and scored a 178. The RC section, what I was struggling on, was pretty easy. I just read through it casually and finished early.

I don't want to imply why this has happened, but I find it fascinating that my score jumped up from 172 to 178 without even trying.

ETA: I took to 7sage to investigate whether this was a really easy RC section altogether. 7sage rated two of them a 5/5 difficulty and two of them a 1/5 difficulty. They all seemed equally easy to me, and I didn't miss any. I guess it really was some magical thing.

Is the credited response "take a vacation" LOL


Thats awesome! Sometimes you do just need a break. A little vacay will do you wonders. work smarter, not necessarily harder

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conker
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Re: Anything change going from 170 to 180?

Postby conker » Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:56 pm

jagerbom79 wrote:
conker wrote:Much to my pleasant surprise, I took a weeklong vacation in Chicago, came back and took a week off studying the LSAT. I just took one today and scored a 178. The RC section, what I was struggling on, was pretty easy. I just read through it casually and finished early.

I don't want to imply why this has happened, but I find it fascinating that my score jumped up from 172 to 178 without even trying.

ETA: I took to 7sage to investigate whether this was a really easy RC section altogether. 7sage rated two of them a 5/5 difficulty and two of them a 1/5 difficulty. They all seemed equally easy to me, and I didn't miss any. I guess it really was some magical thing.

Is the credited response "take a vacation" LOL


Thats awesome! Sometimes you do just need a break. A little vacay will do you wonders. work smarter, not necessarily harder


Completely blows my mind, to be honest with you. I almost feel like the change in scenery just reset my brain. Like I was in a rut from being in this small ass town for too many months.

But yeah I liked the collegiality of several TLS posters I came across in the process. I want to emulate them by giving back to the community here. Not that it is easy to give LSAT advice, but I know it is nice to have people supporting your journey.




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