Hopeless on LG

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paperworkjim

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Hopeless on LG

Postby paperworkjim » Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:36 pm

Having a ton of trouble with LG. Have spent the last 4 months drilling the shit out of 1-35, doing all of them over and over and keeping track in a spreadsheet, until I could do all of them -- and do them again a week later, etc. Hasn't seemed to translate in the least bit onto the real thing. I'm still getting anywhere from -5 to -7 off on LGs on PTs 36 and 37. I seem to just get lost and panic because I can't figure out the inferences that I need to figure out. I feel even more discouraged about my overall intelligence becuase this drilling tactic seemed to work for everyone else, and I just can't get LG down -- wondering if it is using a skill used in Law School that I just don't have.

Any additional advice on what I can do to improve? I'm lingering around the -2 and -3 range for LR and RC, but cannot get the LG down. If I did, I would be well into the 170s. Please help!!

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MediocreAtBest

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Re: Hopeless on LG

Postby MediocreAtBest » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:22 pm

Don't time yourself and just take your time working through the problems. Take as much time as you need. The key is understanding it, so watch the 7sage videos for each game you do, that'll really help you see things from a different perspective and comprehending how to break down and analyze games. Go through the Powerscore LG bible and get the basics down, don't rely on only drilling (nobody here has done only drilling). LG will become a relief once you get it down and since you're doing well on the other sections you should be set once you learn it.

paperworkjim

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Re: Hopeless on LG

Postby paperworkjim » Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:06 pm

MediocreAtBest wrote:Don't time yourself and just take your time working through the problems. Take as much time as you need. The key is understanding it, so watch the 7sage videos for each game you do, that'll really help you see things from a different perspective and comprehending how to break down and analyze games. Go through the Powerscore LG bible and get the basics down, don't rely on only drilling (nobody here has done only drilling). LG will become a relief once you get it down and since you're doing well on the other sections you should be set once you learn it.


Thanks so much for the advice. It's strange - I've gone through each game and haven't timed myself and am able to do 1-35 under the desired time. This just doesn't translate too well onto the sections when I take them timed as part of a PT (for example, in PT 36 and 37.) Tbh, I'm lucky that I even get -5 because I often just feel lost when I confront a new game.

Slippin' Jimmy

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Re: Hopeless on LG

Postby Slippin' Jimmy » Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:34 pm

MediocreAtBest wrote:Don't time yourself and just take your time working through the problems. Take as much time as you need. The key is understanding it, so watch the 7sage videos for each game you do, that'll really help you see things from a different perspective and comprehending how to break down and analyze games. Go through the Powerscore LG bible and get the basics down, don't rely on only drilling (nobody here has done only drilling). LG will become a relief once you get it down and since you're doing well on the other sections you should be set once you learn it.


I second 7sage and would recommend one of their courses as well as the free videos.

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Platopus

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Re: Hopeless on LG

Postby Platopus » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:41 pm

paperworkjim wrote:
MediocreAtBest wrote:Don't time yourself and just take your time working through the problems. Take as much time as you need. The key is understanding it, so watch the 7sage videos for each game you do, that'll really help you see things from a different perspective and comprehending how to break down and analyze games. Go through the Powerscore LG bible and get the basics down, don't rely on only drilling (nobody here has done only drilling). LG will become a relief once you get it down and since you're doing well on the other sections you should be set once you learn it.


Thanks so much for the advice. It's strange - I've gone through each game and haven't timed myself and am able to do 1-35 under the desired time. This just doesn't translate too well onto the sections when I take them timed as part of a PT (for example, in PT 36 and 37.) Tbh, I'm lucky that I even get -5 because I often just feel lost when I confront a new game.


I'll give you a hint if you haven't realized it yet, but if you've done all the games from tests 1-35, then there really aren't any "new" or "different" games in tests 35-80 (barring a *couple* of exceptions). Seriously, they are all the same. There are only so many ways to put people in a row or divide them into 2 groups. This is the point of drilling: to realize that all the games are essentially the same. There are maybe like 4-5 "templates", but for the most games are very, very consistent in what they ask us to do. Point here being, be confident that you know what you are doing. There's no reason to feel nervous or anything like that, you've already done a variant of this game 20+ times.

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34iplaw

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Re: Hopeless on LG

Postby 34iplaw » Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:50 am

+180 for 7Sage but make sure you are trying your best to work through the game and fully understand it before watching the video, IMO.

As to the patterns thing someone else mentioned, it may benefit you just to do like games by type in a row in a constant/non-stop sitting. That's what made the similarity of games beyond obvious to me.

I was almost certain I had seen the third game from September in 2016 before when I took the test. Obviously, I hadn't, but I'm almost certain there was a game with almost the exact same setup and even topic.

paperworkjim

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Re: Hopeless on LG

Postby paperworkjim » Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:12 pm

34iplaw wrote:+180 for 7Sage but make sure you are trying your best to work through the game and fully understand it before watching the video, IMO.

As to the patterns thing someone else mentioned, it may benefit you just to do like games by type in a row in a constant/non-stop sitting. That's what made the similarity of games beyond obvious to me.

I was almost certain I had seen the third game from September in 2016 before when I took the test. Obviously, I hadn't, but I'm almost certain there was a game with almost the exact same setup and even topic.


This is really helpful, thanks man, I'll do what you said about doing a bunch of types of games in order. And thank you Platopus.

I have done all of the 7sage videos and have kept a really detailed excel chart showing what games I have trouble on. Sincerely, I don't have much trouble on the 1-35 games (have done them all to mastery at least once over). I fear that I've just memorized the games rather than really understand the inferences they share with other games, even though I can go weeks w/o doing a game and still be able to do it. I just for some reason can't see the similarities between these games and the later ones. Is this a legitimate concern? I might go over them again. Would it be helpful to go through 1-35 again?

Just feeling a bit discouraged because I've put literally hundreds of hours into LG and have seen pretty little marginal benefit, and have heard all the stories of everyone perfecting LG here -- will probably push back to December at this point to nail LG. Thanks for the help guys.

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34iplaw

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Re: Hopeless on LG

Postby 34iplaw » Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:18 pm

No problem! One other thing I would mention is, if possible while going through games to understand them, try to take note of similar questions (i.e. they follow the same chain of inferences) or answer choices that don't make sense - i.e. logically equivalent answers. I think learning and trying to take note of these build a deeper understanding of games that may help make you more comfortable.

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MediocreAtBest

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Re: Hopeless on LG

Postby MediocreAtBest » Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:42 pm

Is there a certain type of question you miss more than others? Like a Must Be True or Fully Determined or rule replacement? Those can be pretty tricky. Or is there no real pattern and you just kind of miss a little bit of everything?

paperworkjim

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Re: Hopeless on LG

Postby paperworkjim » Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:07 pm

MediocreAtBest wrote:Is there a certain type of question you miss more than others? Like a Must Be True or Fully Determined or rule replacement? Those can be pretty tricky. Or is there no real pattern and you just kind of miss a little bit of everything?


Seem to be missing a bit of everything. Usually, I will struggle on 3 of the games -- but manage to get all but 1 to 2 correct on 1 of the games, and then will compeltly bomb another game (for a combined score of anywhere from -4 to -6). Albeit, the ones that I bomb are usually rated 5 star by 7sage. I think one of the big problems is that I don't take the "big pause." I get so scared of the timing that I just don't really take the time to make inferences up front. I don't know how to ingrain this habit.

Sorry if I'm doing an awful job explaining things. I just am not sure how to improve.

But I don't really ever feel in control of any of the games. I always feel like I'm missing an inference or two that would allow me to blaze through the games, so I always panic. Here's the interesting thing: After I see the game again, even if its 2 minutes after, I do completly fine. It is maybe just the psychology of confronting a new game that worries me. Not sure yet!! I want to continue to do PTs but don't want to waste them if my fundamentals aren't there.

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MediocreAtBest

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Re: Hopeless on LG

Postby MediocreAtBest » Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:19 pm

Well it seems like you've identified your main problem though. Take the time to make the inferences and see how it goes. Just do it, don't move on until you've made the inferences. It's not test day so if you go over on your time it's fine, speed will come naturally.

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Re: Hopeless on LG

Postby MaryKayConvention » Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:25 pm

First of all, this is NOT a skill you need in law school. You will use it ONLY on the LSAT.

Second, I found success by starting out taking the games one by one, with no time limits whatsoever. No pressure, just endless time to get everything perfect. I would note how much time it took but not judge myself for spending 20+ minutes on a game. Then I would slightly decrease the time. Maybe 18 minutes per game. Then 15. And so on. By dialing it back slowly it took some of the pressure off and I didn't fall into "panic" mode so much.

If you're someone who learns by listening you may want to check out the MAnhattan Prep youtube series, where every game is explained with an on-screen diagram and voice-over. Powerscore's free forum also has good back-and-forth discussion between students and tutors, but it's more text-based than picture-based. May the LSAT gods be ever on your side!

https://forum.powerscore.com/lsat/viewtopic.php?t=678&p=35521#p35521



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