Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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anonposter6775

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Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby anonposter6775 » Mon May 15, 2017 5:45 pm

Okay,

I've taken the LSAT twice and got a 143 and a 148.

I've been studying since January for a retake this June. I'm trying to get a 158 (my highest PT).

My problem is my PT results are volatile. I get around -4 LG, -8/-12LR, -8/-12RC.

I've pretty much given up on RC, and am now focusing my efforts on LR.

My weakest ares are necessary assumption and flaw.

I can't seem to get away from the high 140's and low 150's -- I need to break through.

I take each test with 5 sections, and review the test within 24 hours. I go over each answer and why I got it wrong or right. If i get the answer wrong a second time I highlight it, and promise to come back after figuring out why it is wrong a second time.

Right now I have about 12 PT's I need to go over where I got answers wrong from previous review. I need to review my latest test, which I just finished and got a 151.

The review takes a long time because of all the questions I missed.

Does anyone have advice pertaining to review? How can I improve this late in the game? Suggestions on my study schedule moving forward? DESPERATE for help about now. The LSAT consumes most of my days, and it is so frustrating not seeing consistent improvement.

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maybeman

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Re: Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby maybeman » Mon May 15, 2017 6:44 pm

If you're consistently going -12 in LR, you're misunderstanding something fundamental to the section. Are you missing a specific question type more often than others? Is speed an issue? I need more specifics to help you out.

You need to drill and dissect tough question types (or just more difficult questions if question type isn't an issue) that are giving you trouble before you take more PTs. It's good you're reviewing your tests, but are you blind reviewing them? If not, start.

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Platopus

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Re: Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby Platopus » Mon May 15, 2017 6:57 pm

Do yourself a favor, and postpone to September while it's still free (you have until may 18th I believe). For now, stop PTing it's not helping you any, you're going through material and not learning, so there is not point. Start back at square one. Do the drills in your Manhattan/Powerscore book, watch every 7 sage video for every LG you do, drill RC by slowly reading and notating the passage. My hunch is that it's not specific answer choices that are holding you up, it's that you're misunderstanding what the question is asking you to do. If you've gone through the books, but are still a little fuzzy on what the difference between a necessary/sufficient assumption, etc. then you might benefit from a more formalized LSAT class & instructor.

Honestly though, step 1 for not ruining your life is postponing until September.

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Re: Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby MediocreAtBest » Mon May 15, 2017 6:57 pm

What are you using to study? Are you just taking PTs and reviewing them? If so, I can see why you're not making much progress. Your best bet is to postpone until September, develop a real study plan, and if you're still scoring sub-150 in a few months, maybe re-evaluate if this is the right path (hopefully it won't come to that).

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Platopus

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Re: Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby Platopus » Mon May 15, 2017 6:59 pm

Platopus wrote:Do yourself a favor, and postpone to September while it's still free (you have until may 18th I believe). For now, stop PTing it's not helping you any, you're going through material and not learning, so there is not point. Start back at square one. Do the drills in your Manhattan/Powerscore book, watch every 7 sage video for every LG you do, drill RC by slowly reading and notating the passage. My hunch is that it's not specific answer choices that are holding you up, it's that you're misunderstanding what the question is asking you to do. If you've gone through the books, but are still a little fuzzy on what the difference between a necessary/sufficient assumption, etc. then you might benefit from a more formalized LSAT class & instructor.

Honestly though, step 1 for not ruining your life is postponing until September.


edit: Review should take a very long time. Even on tests where I scored a 175, I usually review for 3+ hours.

anonposter6775

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Re: Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby anonposter6775 » Mon May 15, 2017 7:19 pm

Postponing is not an option at this point. I have decided I am going to go through with it and begin law school in the fall. I have burnt through vast majority of tests already, as I've been studying for years.

Do you guys have any suggestions on how I can begin learning more efficiently from PTing?

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Re: Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby anonposter6775 » Mon May 15, 2017 7:21 pm

maybeman wrote:If you're consistently going -12 in LR, you're misunderstanding something fundamental to the section. Are you missing a specific question type more often than others? Is speed an issue? I need more specifics to help you out.

You need to drill and dissect tough question types (or just more difficult questions if question type isn't an issue) that are giving you trouble before you take more PTs. It's good you're reviewing your tests, but are you blind reviewing them? If not, start.



I am mostly missing necessary assumption and flaw questions, but I miss other difficult questions as well. RC is a total mess, and always has been.

I am pretty solid on games, as I consistently get -4.

Is improvement possible from now until June 12th?

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Re: Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby Mikey » Mon May 15, 2017 7:34 pm

anonposter6775 wrote:Postponing is not an option at this point. I have decided I am going to go through with it and begin law school in the fall. I have burnt through vast majority of tests already, as I've been studying for years.

Do you guys have any suggestions on how I can begin learning more efficiently from PTing?

why is it not an option to postpone? how long have you been studying?

anonposter6775

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Re: Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby anonposter6775 » Mon May 15, 2017 7:37 pm

Mikey wrote:
anonposter6775 wrote:Postponing is not an option at this point. I have decided I am going to go through with it and begin law school in the fall. I have burnt through vast majority of tests already, as I've been studying for years.

Do you guys have any suggestions on how I can begin learning more efficiently from PTing?

why is it not an option to postpone? how long have you been studying?



Been studying for about 2 years total, & turned down two great jobs to attend law school in the fall. Cost-benefit analysis won't let me take another year off.

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Re: Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby Mikey » Mon May 15, 2017 7:46 pm

anonposter6775 wrote:
Mikey wrote:
anonposter6775 wrote:Postponing is not an option at this point. I have decided I am going to go through with it and begin law school in the fall. I have burnt through vast majority of tests already, as I've been studying for years.

Do you guys have any suggestions on how I can begin learning more efficiently from PTing?

why is it not an option to postpone? how long have you been studying?



Been studying for about 2 years total, & turned down two great jobs to attend law school in the fall. Cost-benefit analysis won't let me take another year off.

I see. Well, there are plenty of people on here who study for around as long as you have been studying, and even longer. I'm in the former group myself.

Well, I'd say postpone depending on your goal score..

II'm confused though, you want to start law school in the fall but are taking the June test? What schools are you particularly looking at to apply with a June score?

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Re: Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby Walliums » Mon May 15, 2017 7:58 pm

anonposter6775 wrote:Postponing is not an option at this point. I have decided I am going to go through with it and begin law school in the fall. I have burnt through vast majority of tests already, as I've been studying for years.

Do you guys have any suggestions on how I can begin learning more efficiently from PTing?


You should not go to a law school that will accept the June test for admission for that same fall!!! You are resigning yourself to a TTTT that will not put you in a good position in terms of employment prospects or bar passage.

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Re: Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby maybeman » Mon May 15, 2017 9:34 pm

anonposter6775 wrote:
maybeman wrote:If you're consistently going -12 in LR, you're misunderstanding something fundamental to the section. Are you missing a specific question type more often than others? Is speed an issue? I need more specifics to help you out.

You need to drill and dissect tough question types (or just more difficult questions if question type isn't an issue) that are giving you trouble before you take more PTs. It's good you're reviewing your tests, but are you blind reviewing them? If not, start.



I am mostly missing necessary assumption and flaw questions, but I miss other difficult questions as well. RC is a total mess, and always has been.

I am pretty solid on games, as I consistently get -4.

Is improvement possible from now until June 12th?

That's probably not enough time. How many hours do you put into studying every day?

For RC, it's definitely worth a shot to try to improve if it's your worst section. Have you heard of the memory method? Reading for structure can be eye opening you should give it a shot. Try it with short articles from The Economist or old RC passages. Look it up on 7Sage or search for threads about it on here

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Re: Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby carsondalywashere » Mon May 15, 2017 9:56 pm

I wouldn't be worried about burning through material. Redoing problems is a great learning tool

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Platopus

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Re: Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby Platopus » Mon May 15, 2017 11:03 pm

anonposter6775 wrote: Cost-benefit analysis won't let me take another year off.


Do you have any idea how much debt you will have and how miserable your job prospects will be?

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Re: Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby Slippin' Jimmy » Mon May 15, 2017 11:09 pm

Any law schools that will let you apply with a June LSAT for Fall 2017 are not worth going to, not even for free. You can always put off law school, but you can never redo it and having a JD from a TTTT garbage school is worse than not having one in the first place. Wait tables, work at McDonalds, do anything while actually learning the LSAT vs. just taking PTs and sit in September/December and go to a solid regional at worst.

Which schools exactly are you considering?

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Re: Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby Platopus » Mon May 15, 2017 11:13 pm

Slippin' Jimmy wrote:Any law schools that will let you apply with a June LSAT for Fall 2017 are not worth going to, not even for free. You can always put off law school, but you can never redo it and having a JD from a TTTT garbage school is worse than not having one in the first place. Wait tables, work at McDonalds, do anything while actually learning the LSAT vs. just taking PTs and sit in September/December and go to a solid regional at worst.

Which schools exactly are you considering?


MS9 actually chimed in on this in a different thread, and mentioned that he had an applicant get accepted to HYS who took the June LSAT and applied thereafter. However, that applicant was above the school's 75th's and was otherwise very well qualified. That said, I very much agree with your advice.

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Re: Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby Slippin' Jimmy » Mon May 15, 2017 11:20 pm

Platopus wrote:
Slippin' Jimmy wrote:Any law schools that will let you apply with a June LSAT for Fall 2017 are not worth going to, not even for free. You can always put off law school, but you can never redo it and having a JD from a TTTT garbage school is worse than not having one in the first place. Wait tables, work at McDonalds, do anything while actually learning the LSAT vs. just taking PTs and sit in September/December and go to a solid regional at worst.

Which schools exactly are you considering?


MS9 actually chimed in on this in a different thread, and mentioned that he had an applicant get accepted to HYS who took the June LSAT and applied thereafter. However, that applicant was above the school's 75th's and was otherwise very well qualified. That said, I very much agree with your advice.


That's true, I do remember seeing that. I'm pretty sure the OP doesn't really have the rest of their app in order if they are scrambling at this point, and the fact that he has been studying (however inefficiently) and attempted 2 takes but STILL is scoring below 150 tells me that it would take an extraordinary amount of time and effort to get OP to the point where he'd have a chance at a decent T2 or better. Its definitely possible with some direction, but certainly not in one month!

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Re: Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby Walliums » Tue May 16, 2017 12:20 am

anonposter6775 wrote:Does anyone have advice pertaining to review? How can I improve this late in the game? Suggestions on my study schedule moving forward? DESPERATE for help about now. The LSAT consumes most of my days, and it is so frustrating not seeing consistent improvement.


Someone asked this earlier and I'll ask it again because I think it matters (and you might not have seen it since you weren't quoted), but you haven't yet shared what study materials you are using besides the actual PTs themselves. Have you used any books, taken any classes?

anonposter6775

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Re: Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby anonposter6775 » Tue May 16, 2017 12:44 am

Walliums wrote:
anonposter6775 wrote:Does anyone have advice pertaining to review? How can I improve this late in the game? Suggestions on my study schedule moving forward? DESPERATE for help about now. The LSAT consumes most of my days, and it is so frustrating not seeing consistent improvement.


Someone asked this earlier and I'll ask it again because I think it matters (and you might not have seen it since you weren't quoted), but you haven't yet shared what study materials you are using besides the actual PTs themselves. Have you used any books, taken any classes?



Yes, I'm happy to share. I have applied to a number of schools in the SEC and they're still taking scores from the June test.

My GPA is a 3.6

Study materials:

Completed: Powerscore LR & LG bible, 7 sage LG videos, have completed the blueprint course from last June's test.

I am thinking about reenrolling in my blueprint course to access their drills.... you can customize what types of problems, difficulty, etc



Another question: Since June will be my third time, I know there is a two year waiting period. The first LSAT I ever took was December 2015 -- can I retake the LSAT for a 4th time this December? Do the cards happen to align to wear I can take the test in June and see if I get into my first choice school, and take the test again in December for the 4th time if I do not?

Thanks for the help

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Re: Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Tue May 16, 2017 8:00 am

Platopus wrote:
Slippin' Jimmy wrote:Any law schools that will let you apply with a June LSAT for Fall 2017 are not worth going to, not even for free. You can always put off law school, but you can never redo it and having a JD from a TTTT garbage school is worse than not having one in the first place. Wait tables, work at McDonalds, do anything while actually learning the LSAT vs. just taking PTs and sit in September/December and go to a solid regional at worst.

Which schools exactly are you considering?


MS9 actually chimed in on this in a different thread, and mentioned that he had an applicant get accepted to HYS who took the June LSAT and applied thereafter. However, that applicant was above the school's 75th's and was otherwise very well qualified. That said, I very much agree with your advice.

It's Harvard for sure.

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Re: Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby MediocreAtBest » Tue May 16, 2017 8:32 am

You can always postpone. Don't tell yourself that you can't, you're seriously doing yourself a huge disservice by going down the path that you want to go down. You have a solid GPA, you can get some decent outcomes with it if you can get your score right. One year in the grand scheme of things is nothing, especially if your scholarship opportunities and employment prospects get significantly better. The cost-benefit analysis is pretty simple here.

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Re: Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby Walliums » Tue May 16, 2017 8:58 am

anonposter6775 wrote:
Walliums wrote:
anonposter6775 wrote:Does anyone have advice pertaining to review? How can I improve this late in the game? Suggestions on my study schedule moving forward? DESPERATE for help about now. The LSAT consumes most of my days, and it is so frustrating not seeing consistent improvement.


Someone asked this earlier and I'll ask it again because I think it matters (and you might not have seen it since you weren't quoted), but you haven't yet shared what study materials you are using besides the actual PTs themselves. Have you used any books, taken any classes?



Yes, I'm happy to share. I have applied to a number of schools in the SEC and they're still taking scores from the June test.

My GPA is a 3.6

Study materials:

Completed: Powerscore LR & LG bible, 7 sage LG videos, have completed the blueprint course from last June's test.

I am thinking about reenrolling in my blueprint course to access their drills.... you can customize what types of problems, difficulty, etc



Another question: Since June will be my third time, I know there is a two year waiting period. The first LSAT I ever took was December 2015 -- can I retake the LSAT for a 4th time this December? Do the cards happen to align to wear I can take the test in June and see if I get into my first choice school, and take the test again in December for the 4th time if I do not?

Thanks for the help


From what I have heard it appears you can take again in December, but your best bet is to call the LSAC and ask.

I really encourage you to postpone. I am sure that idea is incredibly frustrating, but you have a lot of potential improvement. Look at your GPA! You are obviously smart. My suggestion would be to move the test date to September, take two weeks off, and enroll in the 7Sage basic course which will take you through their core curriculum. Buy the LSAT trainer as well, it's like $40 and will help explain things much better than Powerscore (in my opinion).

If you aren't improving after that, I think you should take some time to be really honest with yourself and seeing if you are forcing yourself down a career path that you are not compatible with. Personally I believe you just haven't found the right study material yet to teach you the LSAT. But if you keep trying things and nothing is working, maybe you should reconsider. While success on the LSAT isn't absolutely correlated with success in law school or bar passage, struggling with it should give one pause.

Another resource for you is the Thinking LSAT podcast. I really encourage you to give a few episodes a listen today instead of traditional studying. I'll look through the episodes I have listened to and pass along some suggestions if you like.

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my prole called life

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Re: Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby my prole called life » Tue May 16, 2017 9:05 am

anonposter6775 wrote:
Mikey wrote:
anonposter6775 wrote:Postponing is not an option at this point. I have decided I am going to go through with it and begin law school in the fall. I have burnt through vast majority of tests already, as I've been studying for years.

Do you guys have any suggestions on how I can begin learning more efficiently from PTing?

why is it not an option to postpone? how long have you been studying?



Been studying for about 2 years total, & turned down two great jobs to attend law school in the fall. Cost-benefit analysis won't let me take another year off.


Jfc you probly shouldn't go to law school

anonposter6775

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Re: Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby anonposter6775 » Tue May 16, 2017 9:23 am

Walliums wrote:
anonposter6775 wrote:
Walliums wrote:
anonposter6775 wrote:Does anyone have advice pertaining to review? How can I improve this late in the game? Suggestions on my study schedule moving forward? DESPERATE for help about now. The LSAT consumes most of my days, and it is so frustrating not seeing consistent improvement.


Someone asked this earlier and I'll ask it again because I think it matters (and you might not have seen it since you weren't quoted), but you haven't yet shared what study materials you are using besides the actual PTs themselves. Have you used any books, taken any classes?



Yes, I'm happy to share. I have applied to a number of schools in the SEC and they're still taking scores from the June test.

My GPA is a 3.6

Study materials:

Completed: Powerscore LR & LG bible, 7 sage LG videos, have completed the blueprint course from last June's test.

I am thinking about reenrolling in my blueprint course to access their drills.... you can customize what types of problems, difficulty, etc



Another question: Since June will be my third time, I know there is a two year waiting period. The first LSAT I ever took was December 2015 -- can I retake the LSAT for a 4th time this December? Do the cards happen to align to wear I can take the test in June and see if I get into my first choice school, and take the test again in December for the 4th time if I do not?

Thanks for the help


From what I have heard it appears you can take again in December, but your best bet is to call the LSAC and ask.

I really encourage you to postpone. I am sure that idea is incredibly frustrating, but you have a lot of potential improvement. Look at your GPA! You are obviously smart. My suggestion would be to move the test date to September, take two weeks off, and enroll in the 7Sage basic course which will take you through their core curriculum. Buy the LSAT trainer as well, it's like $40 and will help explain things much better than Powerscore (in my opinion).

If you aren't improving after that, I think you should take some time to be really honest with yourself and seeing if you are forcing yourself down a career path that you are not compatible with. Personally I believe you just haven't found the right study material yet to teach you the LSAT. But if you keep trying things and nothing is working, maybe you should reconsider. While success on the LSAT isn't absolutely correlated with success in law school or bar passage, struggling with it should give one pause.

Another resource for you is the Thinking LSAT podcast. I really encourage you to give a few episodes a listen today instead of traditional studying. I'll look through the episodes I have listened to and pass along some suggestions if you like.



I'll try listening to the podcast tonight before bed -- if you have any favorite episodes, that'd be great. Just got off the phone with LSAC, and I can retake in December. There was just a change in policy and the taking the test three times rule is out. So, no need to postpone the test. If I don't get into the school of choice, I'll retake in September/December.

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Re: Low scorer desperate for help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby Mikey » Tue May 16, 2017 9:29 am

anonposter6775 wrote:I'll try listening to the podcast tonight before bed -- if you have any favorite episodes, that'd be great. Just got off the phone with LSAC, and I can retake in December. There was just a change in policy and the taking the test three times rule is out. So, no need to postpone the test. If I don't get into the school of choice, I'll retake in September/December.

I don't think the 3 times every 2 years rule is out, you most likely can just take it a 4th time in December because maybe your first take was December 2015?

again though, you plan to apply to a school with a June score to enter school in the fall, is this correct??

edit: sorry, you are right, there was a change in policy. wow!
Last edited by Mikey on Tue May 16, 2017 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.



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