Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

hcss11
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Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

Postby hcss11 » Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:18 pm

Just took my first diagnostic (preptest 62, studying with The LSAT Trainer's 12-Week LSAT Study Schedule (here: http://bit.ly/2mZX2LI)).

RC: 12/27
LR1: 14/26
LG: 4/23
LR2: 14/26

Raw Score: 44
Reporting Score: 143

I'm looking for advice on how to improve 20-30 points by June. Helpful comments appreciated!

thewhalefish
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Re: Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

Postby thewhalefish » Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:34 pm

The only comment I have is, such an improvement will require a large amount of practice tests. If you are starting at 62 and going onward, I fear you may run out of tests on which to practice and gain a grasp for material and establish endurance. I started near your diagnostic mid-Jan and now am at low 160s. So, I would recommend starting with older tests and then working the newer ones as the test comes closer. I hope that helps.

hcss11
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Re: Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

Postby hcss11 » Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:40 pm

I originally meant to do 62-71 and drill with material in 52-61 while reading the material in the LSAT Trainer. But seeing your progress, I'll start doing practice tests every day or so from 1 onward. Thanks for the input!

somedeadman
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Re: Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

Postby somedeadman » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:19 pm

Went from 146 to 169 with 6 months of medium-light intensity studying. If you're not scoring where you want to be by may, I'd say postpone the test.

hcss11
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Re: Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

Postby hcss11 » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:37 pm

Would you guys (and others) post their study schedules also so I and other viewers of this thread can get a feel for how you high-performers study?

somedeadman
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Re: Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

Postby somedeadman » Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:24 pm

First 3 months - powerscore bibles, occasional practice test, mostly drilling (20-30 hours a week)
Next 6 months - one section a day at lunch while at work, br at night. Then a test and Br on weekends
Next 3 months - 3 pts a week with blind Trevor's. Stopped seeing improvement after my first 6-7 months of studying

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MediocreAtBest
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Re: Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

Postby MediocreAtBest » Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:11 pm

Why not wait until September so you don't have to cram in the next 3 months? You're looking to raise your score by a lot, I don't know if 3 months is enough time.

hcss11
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Re: Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

Postby hcss11 » Sun Mar 05, 2017 4:45 pm

I've been considering that. The rub there is that I'm going for a JD/MBA program, so I have to practice both the LSAT and the GMAT.

I'm also operating under the assumption that if I take the test in September, I won't be able to apply in September, only when that month's LSAT score is released, which I believe is November? Maybe I'm wrong about that. Let me know if I am. I just don't want to get caught in the trap of applying too late to get good scholarship options.

But, generally, I agree that taking the test in September would allow me more time.

MediocreAtBest wrote:Why not wait until September so you don't have to cram in the next 3 months? You're looking to raise your score by a lot, I don't know if 3 months is enough time.

somedeadman
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Re: Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

Postby somedeadman » Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:15 pm

I'd look around these boards a bit more before committing to a JD/MBA.

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180pedia
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Re: Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

Postby 180pedia » Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:15 pm

hcss11 wrote:I've been considering that. The rub there is that I'm going for a JD/MBA program, so I have to practice both the LSAT and the GMAT.

I'm also operating under the assumption that if I take the test in September, I won't be able to apply in September, only when that month's LSAT score is released, which I believe is November? Maybe I'm wrong about that. Let me know if I am. I just don't want to get caught in the trap of applying too late to get good scholarship options.

But, generally, I agree that taking the test in September would allow me more time.

MediocreAtBest wrote:Why not wait until September so you don't have to cram in the next 3 months? You're looking to raise your score by a lot, I don't know if 3 months is enough time.


Prepare for LSAT then GMAT IMO. The GMAT verbal is easier than the comparable LSAT sections. GMAT math is basically harder word problems/concept application with relatively simple mathematical concepts. I'm not saying the GMAT is a joke or anything. I'm just saying the LSAT will better prepare you for the similar areas on the GMAT (than vice-versa) and you will need to study the additional sections anyways (LSAT-Games, GMAT-Math/Sentence Correction).

hcss11
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Re: Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

Postby hcss11 » Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:52 pm

Every JD/MBA student/graduate I've spoken to has told me that! It's good to know that the LSAT will make my GMAT experience easier. :D

180pedia wrote:
hcss11 wrote:I've been considering that. The rub there is that I'm going for a JD/MBA program, so I have to practice both the LSAT and the GMAT.

I'm also operating under the assumption that if I take the test in September, I won't be able to apply in September, only when that month's LSAT score is released, which I believe is November? Maybe I'm wrong about that. Let me know if I am. I just don't want to get caught in the trap of applying too late to get good scholarship options.

But, generally, I agree that taking the test in September would allow me more time.

MediocreAtBest wrote:Why not wait until September so you don't have to cram in the next 3 months? You're looking to raise your score by a lot, I don't know if 3 months is enough time.


Prepare for LSAT then GMAT IMO. The GMAT verbal is easier than the comparable LSAT sections. GMAT math is basically harder word problems/concept application with relatively simple mathematical concepts. I'm not saying the GMAT is a joke or anything. I'm just saying the LSAT will better prepare you for the similar areas on the GMAT (than vice-versa) and you will need to study the additional sections anyways (LSAT-Games, GMAT-Math/Sentence Correction).

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MediocreAtBest
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Re: Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

Postby MediocreAtBest » Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:47 pm

hcss11 wrote:I've been considering that. The rub there is that I'm going for a JD/MBA program, so I have to practice both the LSAT and the GMAT.

I'm also operating under the assumption that if I take the test in September, I won't be able to apply in September, only when that month's LSAT score is released, which I believe is November? Maybe I'm wrong about that. Let me know if I am. I just don't want to get caught in the trap of applying too late to get good scholarship options.

But, generally, I agree that taking the test in September would allow me more time.

MediocreAtBest wrote:Why not wait until September so you don't have to cram in the next 3 months? You're looking to raise your score by a lot, I don't know if 3 months is enough time.


I think the September scores are released around the middle of October, not 100% sure about that. That would still be a pretty early application, I mean NU's ED deadline is Dec 1, for example, so October and November are totally reasonable. Unless there was a reason you preferred to apply in September?

hcss11
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Re: Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

Postby hcss11 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:49 pm

Ok, that makes me feel better. I wanted to take it in June because I thought it would take much longer than you said for LSAC to release test scores. Now that I know that isn't the case, I think I'll study for 6 months instead of 3. It did, admittedly, feel a bit rushed to me. Thanks MAB!

MediocreAtBest wrote:
hcss11 wrote:I've been considering that. The rub there is that I'm going for a JD/MBA program, so I have to practice both the LSAT and the GMAT.

I'm also operating under the assumption that if I take the test in September, I won't be able to apply in September, only when that month's LSAT score is released, which I believe is November? Maybe I'm wrong about that. Let me know if I am. I just don't want to get caught in the trap of applying too late to get good scholarship options.

But, generally, I agree that taking the test in September would allow me more time.

MediocreAtBest wrote:Why not wait until September so you don't have to cram in the next 3 months? You're looking to raise your score by a lot, I don't know if 3 months is enough time.


I think the September scores are released around the middle of October, not 100% sure about that. That would still be a pretty early application, I mean NU's ED deadline is Dec 1, for example, so October and November are totally reasonable. Unless there was a reason you preferred to apply in September?

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34iplaw
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Re: Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

Postby 34iplaw » Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:40 pm

hcss11 wrote:Ok, that makes me feel better. I wanted to take it in June because I thought it would take much longer than you said for LSAC to release test scores. Now that I know that isn't the case, I think I'll study for 6 months instead of 3. It did, admittedly, feel a bit rushed to me. Thanks MAB!

MediocreAtBest wrote:
hcss11 wrote:I've been considering that. The rub there is that I'm going for a JD/MBA program, so I have to practice both the LSAT and the GMAT.

I'm also operating under the assumption that if I take the test in September, I won't be able to apply in September, only when that month's LSAT score is released, which I believe is November? Maybe I'm wrong about that. Let me know if I am. I just don't want to get caught in the trap of applying too late to get good scholarship options.

But, generally, I agree that taking the test in September would allow me more time.

MediocreAtBest wrote:Why not wait until September so you don't have to cram in the next 3 months? You're looking to raise your score by a lot, I don't know if 3 months is enough time.


I think the September scores are released around the middle of October, not 100% sure about that. That would still be a pretty early application, I mean NU's ED deadline is Dec 1, for example, so October and November are totally reasonable. Unless there was a reason you preferred to apply in September?


Your idiosyncratic quoting method bewilders me. I don't like it.

CONFORM!

hcss11
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Re: Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

Postby hcss11 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:15 am

Are you a mod? :wink:

34iplaw wrote:
hcss11 wrote:Ok, that makes me feel better. I wanted to take it in June because I thought it would take much longer than you said for LSAC to release test scores. Now that I know that isn't the case, I think I'll study for 6 months instead of 3. It did, admittedly, feel a bit rushed to me. Thanks MAB!

MediocreAtBest wrote:
hcss11 wrote:I've been considering that. The rub there is that I'm going for a JD/MBA program, so I have to practice both the LSAT and the GMAT.

I'm also operating under the assumption that if I take the test in September, I won't be able to apply in September, only when that month's LSAT score is released, which I believe is November? Maybe I'm wrong about that. Let me know if I am. I just don't want to get caught in the trap of applying too late to get good scholarship options.

But, generally, I agree that taking the test in September would allow me more time.

MediocreAtBest wrote:Why not wait until September so you don't have to cram in the next 3 months? You're looking to raise your score by a lot, I don't know if 3 months is enough time.


I think the September scores are released around the middle of October, not 100% sure about that. That would still be a pretty early application, I mean NU's ED deadline is Dec 1, for example, so October and November are totally reasonable. Unless there was a reason you preferred to apply in September?


Your idiosyncratic quoting method bewilders me. I don't like it.

CONFORM!

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34iplaw
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Re: Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

Postby 34iplaw » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:48 pm

hcss11 wrote:Are you a mod? :wink:





Neigh - I am not.

hcss11
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Re: Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

Postby hcss11 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:45 pm

I'm on Manhattan LSAT LR Chapter 2 and I keep overthinking that chapter's drills. So far I'm in 2 right and 4 wrong. The chapter tells you to do 1 argument core identification question at a time and to check your answer after each one. Honestly, even by question 7, I'm exhausted.

What's a better way to simplify my thinking and simplify my studying for this?

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Platopus
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Re: Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

Postby Platopus » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:39 am

hcss11 wrote:I'm on Manhattan LSAT LR Chapter 2 and I keep overthinking that chapter's drills. So far I'm in 2 right and 4 wrong. The chapter tells you to do 1 argument core identification question at a time and to check your answer after each one. Honestly, even by question 7, I'm exhausted.

What's a better way to simplify my thinking and simplify my studying for this?


If you're missing 2/3 of the drills, then you need to be slowing down. Take the time to be 100% sure that you are learning the concepts. I know, because I have struggled with this myself, that it's easy to want to rush through the early chapters and all the drills to go head on into the questions. Resist this urge. Getting the basics down is a necessity.

I would suggest building familiarity with the language used on the LSAT and premise/conclusion indicators. Identifying the argument core is really just trying to figure out what the main point the author is advocating for, and how they use evidence (or what they think is evidence) to support that point.

Unfortunately, being mentally drained is something you'll need to get used to for the LSAT. Essentially, for all the LR questions you'll be forced to identify the argument core and extrapolate based on the reasoning. Stamina will be the last thing to come. Focus on accuracy first. Don't move on to the next question in the drill until you fully understand and could theoretically explain the argument (in terms of premises and conclusion) to someone else.

hcss11
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Re: Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

Postby hcss11 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:30 am

Platopus wrote:
hcss11 wrote:I'm on Manhattan LSAT LR Chapter 2 and I keep overthinking that chapter's drills. So far I'm in 2 right and 4 wrong. The chapter tells you to do 1 argument core identification question at a time and to check your answer after each one. Honestly, even by question 7, I'm exhausted.

What's a better way to simplify my thinking and simplify my studying for this?


If you're missing 2/3 of the drills, then you need to be slowing down. Take the time to be 100% sure that you are learning the concepts. I know, because I have struggled with this myself, that it's easy to want to rush through the early chapters and all the drills to go head on into the questions. Resist this urge. Getting the basics down is a necessity.

I would suggest building familiarity with the language used on the LSAT and premise/conclusion indicators. Identifying the argument core is really just trying to figure out what the main point the author is advocating for, and how they use evidence (or what they think is evidence) to support that point.

Unfortunately, being mentally drained is something you'll need to get used to for the LSAT. Essentially, for all the LR questions you'll be forced to identify the argument core and extrapolate based on the reasoning. Stamina will be the last thing to come. Focus on accuracy first. Don't move on to the next question in the drill until you fully understand and could theoretically explain the argument (in terms of premises and conclusion) to someone else.


That helps. You explain things well. We should talk more. It seems like you have a really good grasp of this material.

Blueprint Brett
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Re: Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

Postby Blueprint Brett » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:26 pm

Before you jump into a ton of practice tests, you obviously have one clear weak area that needs to be addressed (games). Luckily, games is one of the easier sections to make improvements in because it is extremely methodological. It's definitely a good idea to look into some sort of formalized study (book/program/class) at least for the games section of the test because mastering a clear and consistent approach for tackling the games could bring you up several points even if nothing changes in the other sections. Logic games is one area that you for sure don't want to wing it on though, so definitely find a good method through a prep company or book.

ptittle
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Re: Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

Postby ptittle » Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:47 am

Good decision to postpone to September.

As for "I'm on Manhattan LSAT LR Chapter 2 and I keep overthinking that chapter's drills. So far I'm in 2 right and 4 wrong. The chapter tells you to do 1 argument core identification question at a time and to check your answer after each one. Honestly, even by question 7, I'm exhausted." That's good. You should be exhausted! But I hear that "I must be overthinking" excuse a lot from my tutees; I suspect you're not OVERthinking, but thinking about it incorrectly. My guess is that you don't quite understand relevance -- to the given argument. And/or that you don't really understand what exactly the given argument IS.

Also, if you're processing all five options, yeah, that would be exhausting. For most LR questions, the only people who need to process all five options are the ones who don't know the answer. Process the argument, then read the question, then think about it and articulate clearly in your head the right answer, then just go skimming the options for THAT ANSWER. No need to agonize over each and every option.

hcss11
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Re: Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

Postby hcss11 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:21 am

ptittle wrote:Good decision to postpone to September.

As for "I'm on Manhattan LSAT LR Chapter 2 and I keep overthinking that chapter's drills. So far I'm in 2 right and 4 wrong. The chapter tells you to do 1 argument core identification question at a time and to check your answer after each one. Honestly, even by question 7, I'm exhausted." That's good. You should be exhausted! But I hear that "I must be overthinking" excuse a lot from my tutees; I suspect you're not OVERthinking, but thinking about it incorrectly. My guess is that you don't quite understand relevance -- to the given argument. And/or that you don't really understand what exactly the given argument IS.

Also, if you're processing all five options, yeah, that would be exhausting. For most LR questions, the only people who need to process all five options are the ones who don't know the answer. Process the argument, then read the question, then think about it and articulate clearly in your head the right answer, then just go skimming the options for THAT ANSWER. No need to agonize over each and every option.


That's a smart way to think about and go about doing the question in each section. Where are you based? You said you're a tutor?

ptittle
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Re: Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

Postby ptittle » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:08 pm

So sorry, just saw your response with query! I tutor by skype/phone only. More info at my website: lsat-tutoring dot com

hcss11
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Re: Preparing Early: Raising Diagnostic Scoring

Postby hcss11 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:29 pm

ptittle wrote:So sorry, just saw your response with query! I tutor by skype/phone only. More info at my website: lsat-tutoring dot com


Looked at your site + testimonials—I need to improve by 25-30 points. Can you help me do that? With my 3.4 GPA, I will need to score 178-173 to get into the schools I'm targeting.

Let me know if that's something you think would be possible for you. Looking forward to hearing from you! :) (pm me if you like)




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