To retake or not with a 169

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ReadyToStart

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To retake or not with a 169

Postby ReadyToStart » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:27 am

So I just got my September score back. I have a 169 LSAT, and a 4.02 LSAC GPA. I had been testing mostly in the lower 170's with occasional high 160's and mid to high 170's. I know that I can do better, I'm just not sure that it's worth it.
From my understanding, with these stats I can get into much of the T14, with decent to good scholly money towards the lower end. I do think that I'd like to do Big Law, but I can get that from anywhere in the T14, or at least that's what I've gleaned from this forum.
Thanks for the Help!

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Thelaw23

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Re: To retake or not with a 169

Postby Thelaw23 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:56 am

Hey!

I think there's not much of a risk in retaking in December. Even a few points can make a big difference in scholarship money or increase your chances on the top end of the T14.

A Poor Pianist

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Re: To retake or not with a 169

Postby A Poor Pianist » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:55 am

If you're not URM and are fine with lower T14, don't retake; your GPA will do the rest for you.
Unless you're one of those weirdos who loved the test, then retake.

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Thelaw23

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Re: To retake or not with a 169

Postby Thelaw23 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:56 am

A Poor Pianist wrote:If you're not URM and are fine with lower T14, don't retake.
Unless you're one of those weirdos who loved the test. Otherwise your GPA will do the rest for you.


You know, I look back at the test with nostalgia. I even kept every single one of my practice tests in a box.

A Poor Pianist

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Re: To retake or not with a 169

Postby A Poor Pianist » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:57 am

Thelaw23 wrote:
A Poor Pianist wrote:If you're not URM and are fine with lower T14, don't retake.
Unless you're one of those weirdos who loved the test. Otherwise your GPA will do the rest for you.


You know, I look back at the test with nostalgia. I even kept every single one of my practice tests in a box.


I will pray for you.

Rigo

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Re: To retake or not with a 169

Postby Rigo » Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:19 pm

Apply now, and retake for more scholly money. If you're completely over it, you don't have to retake. There's no downside though if you can muster the time and effort.

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Clearly

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Re: To retake or not with a 169

Postby Clearly » Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:24 pm

Retake! Not because of your previous scores, you scored right where I'd expect, but get better then retake. Forget about which school you'd get into and think about the money. A 173 4.02 is full ride all over the place territory, while a 169 is "damn my loan servicer is seriously gonna take 2k out of my account every month till I'm 40" territory.

theboringest

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Re: To retake or not with a 169

Postby theboringest » Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:55 pm

Your GPA is better than mine, but I'm retaking with the same score- hoping to solidify some of those "maybe" schools, and get some $. At least there's not as much pressure this time right?

Voyager

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Re: To retake or not with a 169

Postby Voyager » Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:26 pm

No. Don't retake. Odds are low that you will do better.

You score in your practice testing range. That's normal... you should expect to score a tad lower than your average practice scores

Variety of reasons:
-Nerves
-Confirmation bias on estimating your current practice scores (people tend to "forget" bad practice tests and remember the good ones resulting in an inflated sense of practice average)
-Distractions at the test center
-The impact of reusing old practice exams you have already seen (inflates the score on your 2nd go around with the practice test)
-Etc.

IF you are going to retake, you will need to study SUPER HARD over the next 6 weeks! Going from 169 to 174 is much more difficult than 164 to 169.

Doesn't sound like you are prepared to do that.

Further, there is a good risk you will actually do worse in December.

And in any case, you have a good LSAT score and great greats.

Apply. Drink. Be merry.

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Clearly

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Re: To retake or not with a 169

Postby Clearly » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:25 pm

Voyager wrote:No. Don't retake. Odds are low that you will do better.

You score in your practice testing range. That's normal... you should expect to score a tad lower than your average practice scores

Variety of reasons:
-Nerves
-Confirmation bias on estimating your current practice scores (people tend to "forget" bad practice tests and remember the good ones resulting in an inflated sense of practice average)
-Distractions at the test center
-The impact of reusing old practice exams you have already seen (inflates the score on your 2nd go around with the practice test)
-Etc.

IF you are going to retake, you will need to study SUPER HARD over the next 6 weeks! Going from 169 to 174 is much more difficult than 164 to 169.

Doesn't sound like you are prepared to do that.

Further, there is a good risk you will actually do worse in December.

And in any case, you have a good LSAT score and great greats.

Apply. Drink. Be merry.


Firm disagree with this mentality. Doing worse doesn't matter as they would only consider the high score. He's literally within the LSAT margin of error of a full ride score with that GPA. That means he could literally take the test tomorrow and stands a reasonable shot of 170s. If he buckles down and improves even a little those odds go up significantly. Counter-intuitively, if he had a 165 I'd say walk away, but he's at a point where just one point puts him over many T-14 medians, that would save him tens of thousands of dollars in tuition! Don't give up now!

Data time. 154 people retook the lsat with a 169 in the most recent data set released by lsac. Of them, 99 improved, 12 scored the same and 43 improved. 53 stayed in the 160s, 99 into the 170s. The average score of the whole data set, including those who did worse was 171. Ordinarily a point or two is whatever, but at this range of scoring and with that GPA? It's huge.
Last edited by Clearly on Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Voyager

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Re: To retake or not with a 169

Postby Voyager » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:31 pm

Clearly wrote:
Voyager wrote:No. Don't retake. Odds are low that you will do better.

You score in your practice testing range. That's normal... you should expect to score a tad lower than your average practice scores

Variety of reasons:
-Nerves
-Confirmation bias on estimating your current practice scores (people tend to "forget" bad practice tests and remember the good ones resulting in an inflated sense of practice average)
-Distractions at the test center
-The impact of reusing old practice exams you have already seen (inflates the score on your 2nd go around with the practice test)
-Etc.

IF you are going to retake, you will need to study SUPER HARD over the next 6 weeks! Going from 169 to 174 is much more difficult than 164 to 169.

Doesn't sound like you are prepared to do that.

Further, there is a good risk you will actually do worse in December.

And in any case, you have a good LSAT score and great greats.

Apply. Drink. Be merry.


Firm disagree with this mentality. Doing worse doesn't matter as they would only consider the high score. He's literally within the LSAT margin of error of a full ride score with that GPA. That means he could literally take the test tomorrow and stands a reasonable shot of 170s. If he buckles down and improves even a little those odds go up significantly. Counter-intuitively, if he had a 165 I'd say walk away, but he's at a point where just one point puts him over many T-14 medians, that would save him tens of thousands of dollars in tuition! Don't give up now!


I don't think his heart is in it... so why should he make his next 5 weeks miserable?

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Clearly

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Re: To retake or not with a 169

Postby Clearly » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:38 pm

Voyager wrote:
Clearly wrote:
Voyager wrote:No. Don't retake. Odds are low that you will do better.

You score in your practice testing range. That's normal... you should expect to score a tad lower than your average practice scores

Variety of reasons:
-Nerves
-Confirmation bias on estimating your current practice scores (people tend to "forget" bad practice tests and remember the good ones resulting in an inflated sense of practice average)
-Distractions at the test center
-The impact of reusing old practice exams you have already seen (inflates the score on your 2nd go around with the practice test)
-Etc.

IF you are going to retake, you will need to study SUPER HARD over the next 6 weeks! Going from 169 to 174 is much more difficult than 164 to 169.

Doesn't sound like you are prepared to do that.

Further, there is a good risk you will actually do worse in December.

And in any case, you have a good LSAT score and great greats.

Apply. Drink. Be merry.


Firm disagree with this mentality. Doing worse doesn't matter as they would only consider the high score. He's literally within the LSAT margin of error of a full ride score with that GPA. That means he could literally take the test tomorrow and stands a reasonable shot of 170s. If he buckles down and improves even a little those odds go up significantly. Counter-intuitively, if he had a 165 I'd say walk away, but he's at a point where just one point puts him over many T-14 medians, that would save him tens of thousands of dollars in tuition! Don't give up now!


I don't think his heart is in it... so why should he make his next 5 weeks miserable?


154 people retook the lsat with a 169 in the most recent data set released by lsac. Of them, 99 improved, 12 scored the same and 43 improved. 53 stayed in the 160s, 99 into the 170s. The average score of the whole data set, including those who did worse was 171. Ordinarily a point or two is whatever, but at this range of scoring and with that GPA? It's huge.

No one's heart is in the lsat, the lsat blows and is frustrating. OP should suck it up because if he tries as hard as everyone else in his position did, he most likely improves into the 170s. With his GPA that translates to tens of thousands in scholarships, beautiful tax free money in his pocket. It'd be silly not to suck it up.

Voyager

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Re: To retake or not with a 169

Postby Voyager » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:05 pm

Clearly wrote:
Voyager wrote:
Clearly wrote:
Voyager wrote:No. Don't retake. Odds are low that you will do better.

You score in your practice testing range. That's normal... you should expect to score a tad lower than your average practice scores

Variety of reasons:
-Nerves
-Confirmation bias on estimating your current practice scores (people tend to "forget" bad practice tests and remember the good ones resulting in an inflated sense of practice average)
-Distractions at the test center
-The impact of reusing old practice exams you have already seen (inflates the score on your 2nd go around with the practice test)
-Etc.

IF you are going to retake, you will need to study SUPER HARD over the next 6 weeks! Going from 169 to 174 is much more difficult than 164 to 169.

Doesn't sound like you are prepared to do that.

Further, there is a good risk you will actually do worse in December.

And in any case, you have a good LSAT score and great greats.

Apply. Drink. Be merry.


Firm disagree with this mentality. Doing worse doesn't matter as they would only consider the high score. He's literally within the LSAT margin of error of a full ride score with that GPA. That means he could literally take the test tomorrow and stands a reasonable shot of 170s. If he buckles down and improves even a little those odds go up significantly. Counter-intuitively, if he had a 165 I'd say walk away, but he's at a point where just one point puts him over many T-14 medians, that would save him tens of thousands of dollars in tuition! Don't give up now!


I don't think his heart is in it... so why should he make his next 5 weeks miserable?


154 people retook the lsat with a 169 in the most recent data set released by lsac. Of them, 99 improved, 12 scored the same and 43 improved. 53 stayed in the 160s, 99 into the 170s. The average score of the whole data set, including those who did worse was 171. Ordinarily a point or two is whatever, but at this range of scoring and with that GPA? It's huge.

No one's heart is in the lsat, the lsat blows and is frustrating. OP should suck it up because if he tries as hard as everyone else in his position did, he most likely improves into the 170s. With his GPA that translates to tens of thousands in scholarships, beautiful tax free money in his pocket. It'd be silly not to suck it up.


Well that's interesting data.

Would be helpful to figure out when they started prepping for the retake and how much time was needed.

This guy has 5 weeks left...



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