An Epic Failure Forum

[laggyking]

Well, An Epic Epic Epic Failure, I got 157 for Sept test, with an Epic -17 Fifth Section, I dont know what happened, and what to do now. Hammered really hard by the score. It never happened during my PTs, my last 2 weeks PTs were average 170. So how to improve now? Only few weeks left before Dec test.

[ArtistOfManliness]

Re-take and have the same thing not happen again. Don't fret, just carry on.

[studyingeveryday]

if you're lucky enough that this was just your first take, then re-take!

[grades??]

Sorry OP. This is exactly the reason when people make chances thread before actually getting an lsat score are silly in general. Keep your head down and keep working hard.

[Ferrisjso]

I got a 148, I thought I was in the 160s. At the end of the day retake philosophy is flawed due to the possibility your score will go down and down bad as each test is different( I had a 155,156 from my first two tries). I should have just not retaken. Not saying retaking cannot be a great decision and is usually the best option but there is a con side to the coin as well especially if your score is decent( and 157 by all accounts is)

[mudiverse]

Well, An Epic Epic Epic Failure, I got 157 for Sept test, with an Epic -17 Fifth Section, I dont know what happened, and what to do now. Hammered really hard by the score. It never happened during my PTs, my last 2 weeks PTs were average 170. So how to improve now? Only few weeks left before Dec test.

Two things:
1. -17 fifth section indicates a fluke or meltdown. If you were even -7 on that section (achievable if 170 was your average) you would have a gotten high 160s. This indicates a re-take could bring you up quite a lot.

2. Your prep testing conditions were probably not super good if you underperformed so much on the test day. Make sure you are doing the latest prep tests and strict timing.

[ArtistOfManliness]

Also consider taking six practice sections at a time.

[laggyking]

Well, An Epic Epic Epic Failure, I got 157 for Sept test, with an Epic -17 Fifth Section, I dont know what happened, and what to do now. Hammered really hard by the score. It never happened during my PTs, my last 2 weeks PTs were average 170. So how to improve now? Only few weeks left before Dec test.

I feel for you fam. I scored the exact same thing. My average was a 171. This was my 3rd take and also the worst take I have ever had by far.

Two things:
1. -17 fifth section indicates a fluke or meltdown. If you were even -7 on that section (achievable if 170 was your average) you would have a gotten high 160s. This indicates a re-take could bring you up quite a lot.

2. Your prep testing conditions were probably not super good if you underperformed so much on the test day. Make sure you are doing the latest prep tests and strict timing.

Thank you for your advice,
I had really bad proctors, I should report it to lsac, but i didnt, because I thought I did good. well, at least for first 3 sections, I did ok. I sat at 1st row, so I can hear every single word they said. During the first section, they were talking about a student took photos of test book with his phone, I messed up my 1st section, Luckily its not in the final score. Later, they set up two timers, 1 is 30mins, the other one is 35mins, instead of saying"there is 5 mins left", they used the beeping sound of the timer. Then, they only gave us 10mins break, even shorter, once they saw everyone went back into test room, they started the test. Between 4th and 5th section, one proctor told the other one, she wants a coffee and a cake, and saying cafe on campus has really good coffee, and then she left test room and bought a coffee and came back.
Besides all these distractions, I do realize I have performance issue after the break, even during PTs at home.

[laggyking]

if you're lucky enough that this was just your first take, then re-take!

it is my first take, and Im going to retake at a different test center, so I dont have to deal with bad proctors.

[laggyking]

Also consider taking six practice sections at a time.

thank you for the advice and comfort, I do realize I have performance issue after the break. Can't 100% focus after break, start to feel hungry, especially during the real test, one proctor left test room and bought a cup of coffee and a cake between 4th and 5th section, plus I only had less than 10mins break, I didnt have time to finish my energy bar.LOL, anyway, I'll retake.

[laggyking]

I got a 148, I thought I was in the 160s. At the end of the day retake philosophy is flawed due to the possibility your score will go down and down bad as each test is different( I had a 155,156 from my first two tries). I should have just not retaken. Not saying retaking cannot be a great decision and is usually the best option but there is a con side to the coin as well especially if your score is decent( and 157 by all accounts is)

Im targeting SMU and UT Austin, since I live in Texas for 5 years already, I really don't want to move the whole family to other states. I know 157 is an acceptable score for SMU, but I need scholarship, 157 won't get me scholarship.

[Ferrisjso]

I got a 148, I thought I was in the 160s. At the end of the day retake philosophy is flawed due to the possibility your score will go down and down bad as each test is different( I had a 155,156 from my first two tries). I should have just not retaken. Not saying retaking cannot be a great decision and is usually the best option but there is a con side to the coin as well especially if your score is decent( and 157 by all accounts is)

Im targeting SMU and UT Austin, since I live in Texas for 5 years already, I really don't want to move the whole family to other states. I know 157 is an acceptable score for SMU, but I need scholarship, 157 won't get me scholarship.

True, true. I was just making a point of how retaking can have a negative outcome( even though in most cases it makes sense especially for try two) PTs are very different from the real
test and repeating your PT scores is difficult( I had 164 once). Best of luck on SM! Out of curiosity what is your GPA? If you're above their medians by enough you can probably coerece some scholarship money from them. Im trying the same with a few T2 schools and even a T1 with a stunningly low median GPA and I have an LSAT score one point lower to boot! If it makes you feel better, my failure was far more "epic", I went down from 156 to 148 after thinking i had my best test! Seeing how horrible your experience was you should retake though! Im just venting frustration about everyones blind insustence that retaking does no harm and everyone should always retake! Due to listening to this advice i have a 148 on my applications. I know in theory it doesnt count but the scholls can see it and i have no dount it makes my situation at my reaches at least a little worse. If you didnt do your best, retake especially on your first try! I just believe now what i was told originally that if you study really hard and take the LSAT twice youre prolly not milking anything else out of the test. Sure, lots of people will say otherwise but the September waiting poll( and every waiting poll) indicates that sucess stories( people in top 10 percentile)on TLS are dramtically overrepresented. It can be done and you owe it to yourself to try but its not as simple and easy as everyone on here makes it seem.

[laggyking]

I got a 148, I thought I was in the 160s. At the end of the day retake philosophy is flawed due to the possibility your score will go down and down bad as each test is different( I had a 155,156 from my first two tries). I should have just not retaken. Not saying retaking cannot be a great decision and is usually the best option but there is a con side to the coin as well especially if your score is decent( and 157 by all accounts is)

Im targeting SMU and UT Austin, since I live in Texas for 5 years already, I really don't want to move the whole family to other states. I know 157 is an acceptable score for SMU, but I need scholarship, 157 won't get me scholarship.

True, true. I was just making a point of how retaking can have a negative outcome( even though in most cases it makes sense especially for try two) PTs are very different from the real
test and repeating your PT scores is difficult( I had 164 once). Best of luck on SM! Out of curiosity what is your GPA? If you're above their medians by enough you can probably coerece some scholarship money from them. Im trying the same with a few T2 schools and even a T1 with a stunningly low median GPA and I have an LSAT score one point lower to boot! If it makes you feel better, my failure was far more "epic", I went down from 156 to 148 after thinking i had my best test! Seeing how horrible your experience was you should retake though! Im just venting frustration about everyones blind insustence that retaking does no harm and everyone should always retake! Due to listening to this advice i have a 148 on my applications. I know in theory it doesnt count but the scholls can see it and i have no dount it makes my situation at my reaches at least a little worse. If you didnt do your best, retake especially on your first try! I just believe now what i was told originally that if you study really hard and take the LSAT twice youre prolly not milking anything else out of the test. Sure, lots of people will say otherwise but the September waiting poll( and every waiting poll) indicates that sucess stories( people in top 10 percentile)on TLS are dramtically overrepresented. It can be done and you owe it to yourself to try but its not as simple and easy as everyone on here makes it seem.

Thanks, my gpa is over 3.8, ranking # 1 out of 250 people, but i got my bachelor degree from international institution, so it won't really help my application. I have a master degree from UT Austin, with a 3.2 GPA. Good luck with your Application though, 156 would get you into some really good local law schools, you don't have to graduate from Harvard to be a lawyer.

[Ferrisjso]

I got a 148, I thought I was in the 160s. At the end of the day retake philosophy is flawed due to the possibility your score will go down and down bad as each test is different( I had a 155,156 from my first two tries). I should have just not retaken. Not saying retaking cannot be a great decision and is usually the best option but there is a con side to the coin as well especially if your score is decent( and 157 by all accounts is)

Im targeting SMU and UT Austin, since I live in Texas for 5 years already, I really don't want to move the whole family to other states. I know 157 is an acceptable score for SMU, but I need scholarship, 157 won't get me scholarship.

True, true. I was just making a point of how retaking can have a negative outcome( even though in most cases it makes sense especially for try two) PTs are very different from the real
test and repeating your PT scores is difficult( I had 164 once). Best of luck on SM! Out of curiosity what is your GPA? If you're above their medians by enough you can probably coerece some scholarship money from them. Im trying the same with a few T2 schools and even a T1 with a stunningly low median GPA and I have an LSAT score one point lower to boot! If it makes you feel better, my failure was far more "epic", I went down from 156 to 148 after thinking i had my best test! Seeing how horrible your experience was you should retake though! Im just venting frustration about everyones blind insustence that retaking does no harm and everyone should always retake! Due to listening to this advice i have a 148 on my applications. I know in theory it doesnt count but the scholls can see it and i have no dount it makes my situation at my reaches at least a little worse. If you didnt do your best, retake especially on your first try! I just believe now what i was told originally that if you study really hard and take the LSAT twice youre prolly not milking anything else out of the test. Sure, lots of people will say otherwise but the September waiting poll( and every waiting poll) indicates that sucess stories( people in top 10 percentile)on TLS are dramtically overrepresented. It can be done and you owe it to yourself to try but its not as simple and easy as everyone on here makes it seem.

Thanks, my gpa is over 3.8, ranking # 1 out of 250 people, but i got my bachelor degree from international institution, so it won't really help my application. I have a master degree from UT Austin, with a 3.2 GPA. Good luck with your Application though, 156 would get you into some really good local law schools, you don't have to graduate from Harvard to be a lawyer.

Thanks! Damm thats an incredible GPA. You should still retake( your expierence sounds horrible for first time)but with GPA you should get something in terms of money. I read on here a few months ago someone with a 155 LSAT and 3.8 GPA got into UChicago and youve got marginally better stats. That was just one person but it really speaks to what is possible beneath the 25th percentile at some of these elite schools.

Thanks! Im looking at NY and Virginia mainly at this point. I like my chances. Another few points on the LSAT couldve helped but at the end of the day my numbers are good enough where ill get an outcome im somewhat satisfied with. My main issue with the LSAT was the timing, Im someone who obsesses over everything to make sure its right. First two tests i did well early and burned out late ,in this third one I studied to go faster and things got even worse. The LSAT just wasnt suited to my skills. I honestly like my chances of hitting the top 10% in my first semester and transferring better than getting 165-166 on the LSAT.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I had really bad proctors, I should report it to lsac, but i didnt, because I thought I did good. well, at least for first 3 sections, I did ok. I sat at 1st row, so I can hear every single word they said. During the first section, they were talking about a student took photos of test book with his phone, I messed up my 1st section, Luckily its not in the final score. Later, they set up two timers, 1 is 30mins, the other one is 35mins, instead of saying"there is 5 mins left", they used the beeping sound of the timer. Then, they only gave us 10mins break, even shorter, once they saw everyone went back into test room, they started the test. Between 4th and 5th section, one proctor told the other one, she wants a coffee and a cake, and saying cafe on campus has really good coffee, and then she left test room and bought a coffee and came back.
Besides all these distractions, I do realize I have performance issue after the break, even during PTs at home.

You may want to try PT-ing in places like crowded coffee shops and the like, to get used to working with distractions. Because while proctors can be annoying, nothing you describe is really out of the ordinary and really shouldn't be that distracting.

[laggyking]

I got a 148, I thought I was in the 160s. At the end of the day retake philosophy is flawed due to the possibility your score will go down and down bad as each test is different( I had a 155,156 from my first two tries). I should have just not retaken. Not saying retaking cannot be a great decision and is usually the best option but there is a con side to the coin as well especially if your score is decent( and 157 by all accounts is)

Im targeting SMU and UT Austin, since I live in Texas for 5 years already, I really don't want to move the whole family to other states. I know 157 is an acceptable score for SMU, but I need scholarship, 157 won't get me scholarship.

True, true. I was just making a point of how retaking can have a negative outcome( even though in most cases it makes sense especially for try two) PTs are very different from the real
test and repeating your PT scores is difficult( I had 164 once). Best of luck on SM! Out of curiosity what is your GPA? If you're above their medians by enough you can probably coerece some scholarship money from them. Im trying the same with a few T2 schools and even a T1 with a stunningly low median GPA and I have an LSAT score one point lower to boot! If it makes you feel better, my failure was far more "epic", I went down from 156 to 148 after thinking i had my best test! Seeing how horrible your experience was you should retake though! Im just venting frustration about everyones blind insustence that retaking does no harm and everyone should always retake! Due to listening to this advice i have a 148 on my applications. I know in theory it doesnt count but the scholls can see it and i have no dount it makes my situation at my reaches at least a little worse. If you didnt do your best, retake especially on your first try! I just believe now what i was told originally that if you study really hard and take the LSAT twice youre prolly not milking anything else out of the test. Sure, lots of people will say otherwise but the September waiting poll( and every waiting poll) indicates that sucess stories( people in top 10 percentile)on TLS are dramtically overrepresented. It can be done and you owe it to yourself to try but its not as simple and easy as everyone on here makes it seem.

Thanks, my gpa is over 3.8, ranking # 1 out of 250 people, but i got my bachelor degree from international institution, so it won't really help my application. I have a master degree from UT Austin, with a 3.2 GPA. Good luck with your Application though, 156 would get you into some really good local law schools, you don't have to graduate from Harvard to be a lawyer.

Thanks! Damm thats an incredible GPA. You should still retake( your expierence sounds horrible for first time)but with GPA you should get something in terms of money. I read on here a few months ago someone with a 155 LSAT and 3.8 GPA got into UChicago and youve got marginally better stats. That was just one person but it really speaks to what is possible beneath the 25th percentile at some of these elite schools.

Thanks! Im looking at NY and Virginia mainly at this point. I like my chances. Another few points on the LSAT couldve helped but at the end of the day my numbers are good enough where ill get an outcome im somewhat satisfied with. My main issue with the LSAT was the timing, Im someone who obsesses over everything to make sure its right. First two tests i did well early and burned out late ,in this third one I studied to go faster and things got even worse. The LSAT just wasnt suited to my skills. I honestly like my chances of hitting the top 10% in my first semester and transferring better than getting 165-166 on the LSAT.

True, Have faith in yourself.

[laggyking]

I had really bad proctors, I should report it to lsac, but i didnt, because I thought I did good. well, at least for first 3 sections, I did ok. I sat at 1st row, so I can hear every single word they said. During the first section, they were talking about a student took photos of test book with his phone, I messed up my 1st section, Luckily its not in the final score. Later, they set up two timers, 1 is 30mins, the other one is 35mins, instead of saying"there is 5 mins left", they used the beeping sound of the timer. Then, they only gave us 10mins break, even shorter, once they saw everyone went back into test room, they started the test. Between 4th and 5th section, one proctor told the other one, she wants a coffee and a cake, and saying cafe on campus has really good coffee, and then she left test room and bought a coffee and came back.
Besides all these distractions, I do realize I have performance issue after the break, even during PTs at home.

You may want to try PT-ing in places like crowded coffee shops and the like, to get used to working with distractions. Because while proctors can be annoying, nothing you describe is really out of the ordinary and really shouldn't be that distracting.

I'll add this one to my "how-to-improve" list. Thanks.

[whateverwhatever]

Man, that sucks I had a very similar situation in June where my proctor did not handle a situation with a kid next to be very well, and I had a total meltdown and my score reflected such. I think all the advice here is great. Just keep your head up and keep pushing forward. I know it's difficult, but try to take the pressure off yourself a little. Try not to have that mindset of December is do-or-die, because that may contribute to anxiety as well. Take a breather, you got this -- whenever that may be. I also found, and this is purely anecdotal, that the more prepared you are, the less likely you are to be distracted by outside things. If you really, really know the material, it's way easier to tune other things out and really focus.

To make a (lame) sports analogy, the best hitters in baseball/softball are the one's who drill so much that when they get in the box, the ball seems to slow down and have less movement. Even if someone has a crazy breaking ball or something weird happens, they have enough knowledge and frankly, muscle memory to be able to adapt.

It sounds cliché, but try not to feel that bad. Failure happens. Use this as an opportunity to get even better at the test than you were before, and crush it the next time you take it.

[Csta5315]

Also consider taking six practice sections at a time.

I second that. I've been practice testing with 6 sections to avoid burnout. If you PT with 6 sections, then on test day you won't feel as wiped out. It's best to train your brain to be ON for a longer period of time.