I got a 163, and I'm hearing conflicting advice about whether or not to retake

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zappygoldfish

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I got a 163, and I'm hearing conflicting advice about whether or not to retake

Postby zappygoldfish » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:27 pm

I'm frankly not happy with my score, and was aiming for a high 160. I took about 25 preptests in preparation, and studied really hard for about 3 months. I've heard people saying that when people score around their practice test average, it's pretty unlikely that they'll improve with a retake. If you average my practice scores, it's about a 164. The thing is, earlier on my scores were on the lower end, and closer to the test I had a greater amount of high 160 scores. The last three tests I took before the real one I got 169's on. I know that I'm physically capable of attaining my goal, so should I retake despite the fact that I technically got around my average practice test score?

grades??

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Re: I got a 163, and I'm hearing conflicting advice about whether or not to retake

Postby grades?? » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:31 pm

Yes retake.

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Vino.Veritas

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Re: I got a 163, and I'm hearing conflicting advice about whether or not to retake

Postby Vino.Veritas » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:40 pm

I'm in the exact same boat as you. I will be retaking in December. I want to be fair to myself and give myself another shot at this. Our scores are not terrible (mine would most likely get me in to good schools in Canada), but I'm going to give it one more shot to try and give myself a bigger cushion!

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daisrt

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Re: I got a 163, and I'm hearing conflicting advice about whether or not to retake

Postby daisrt » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:45 pm

Yes, definitely retake. You've only studied for three months, and you can retake in December and still apply this cycle. Since you've only taken the LSAT once and you have been performing in the high 160s, it makes sense to take December and then take Feb/June/Sept 2017 if that doesn't work out.) Good luck!

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Ferrisjso

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Re: I got a 163, and I'm hearing conflicting advice about whether or not to retake

Postby Ferrisjso » Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:02 am

Retaking is usually good advice but this site overdoses on it to much. Telling people who score 160+ they need to retake is insane to me. Not saying you shouldnt but the positive of the retake while being greater than the negative is dramatically oversold on here. If your GPA is solid and the combo of both will get you into schools you like at prices youre happy with dont retake, unless the 163 is your first score and you are confident you can do better. Also keep in mind there is a good chance youll do worse. Today opened my eyes on that. My pre law advisor told me the potential negatives of retaking and i took this sites advice over her(also shes incompetent as hell and i still think most people on this site are more informed but in this one area concerning my case she was right). A 163 is better than 9/10 people who take the thing and your stature in the TLS community is inherently going to be worse than among the legal world as a whole. You should be thrilled. If your GPA is really poor id share the view that a retake is a must but if youre above a 3.35 or something youre prolly good unless you want T-14 and even then you might get in. Most important thing is if you think you will do signifigantly better. Also if your going to have to wait a year( if youve taken three times like me, DONT wait, especially now. After the severe drops in medians the last few years they are starting to climb again and this a year a 163 very well get you the same thing a 167( spit alling here)will ina year or two. This is the best time to apply!( last year was better but thats not an option for anyone is it?)

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Re: I got a 163, and I'm hearing conflicting advice about whether or not to retake

Postby BigZuck » Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:13 am

Ferrisjso wrote:Retaking is usually good advice but this site overdoses on it to much. Telling people who score 160+ they need to retake is insane to me. Not saying you shouldnt but the positive of the retake while being greater than the negative is dramatically oversold on here. If your GPA is solid and the combo of both will get you into schools you like at prices youre happy with dont retake, unless the 163 is your first score and you are confident you can do better. Also keep in mind there is a good chance youll do worse. Today opened my eyes on that. My pre law advisor told me the potential negatives of retaking and i took this sites advice over her(also shes incompetent as hell and i still think most people on this site are more informed but in this one area concerning my case she was right). A 163 is better than 9/10 people who take the thing and your stature in the TLS community is inherently going to be worse than among the legal world as a whole. You should be thrilled. If your GPA is really poor id share the view that a retake is a must but if youre above a 3.35 or something youre prolly good unless you want T-14 and even then you might get in. Most important thing is if you think you will do signifigantly better. Also if your going to have to wait a year( if youve taken three times like me, DONT wait, especially now. After the severe drops in medians the last few years they are starting to climb again and this a year a 163 very well get you the same thing a 167( spit alling here)will ina year or two. This is the best time to apply!( last year was better but thats not an option for anyone is it?)

I tried to parse through this word salad to find the downsides of retaking but I couldn't find it

Can you spell it out straightforwardly and succinctly?

theboringest

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Re: I got a 163, and I'm hearing conflicting advice about whether or not to retake

Postby theboringest » Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:02 am

Retake. The registration fee and stress are 100% worth it- Mike MS9 has repeatedly stated that retakes are not frowned upon. If you get a huge score boost, you can just write an addendum and no biggie. Retake.

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kindofcanuck

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Re: I got a 163, and I'm hearing conflicting advice about whether or not to retake

Postby kindofcanuck » Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:11 am

Ferrisjso wrote:Retaking is usually good advice but this site overdoses on it to much. Telling people who score 160+ they need to retake is insane to me.


Ooh! A firmly held, controversial view. I'm looking forward to the reasoning why.
Not saying you shouldnt but the positive of the retake while being greater than the negative is dramatically oversold on here.


Getting juicy, this is gonna be good

If your GPA is solid and the combo of both will get you into schools you like at prices youre happy with dont retake, unless the 163 is your first score and you are confident you can do better.


I think my browser deleted a para, it went straight from premise to conclusion without including reasoning... :(

Also keep in mind there is a good chance youll do worse. Today opened my eyes on that.


The argument fails to take into account (A) that doing worse rarely negatively affects an application (B) that they are already aware they can score less (C) you know what, I can't be bothered to come up with five. There's no reason in there why the stated thing would be a bad thing for OP.

My pre law advisor told me the potential negatives of retaking and i took this sites advice over her(also shes incompetent as hell and i still think most people on this site are more informed but in this one area concerning my case she was right).


OK, now I think we're getting somewhere. You retook and did worse, and are now worried it's going to be a drag on your apps. Relax. There's no reason to think a lower score will supersede a higher one.

A 163 is better than 9/10 people who take the thing and your stature in the TLS community is inherently going to be worse than among the legal world as a whole.


This is true, but not relevant

You should be thrilled.


Personal circumstances differ. I'd personally call flunking it (which I did too) devastating

If your GPA is really poor id share the view that a retake is a must but if youre above a 3.35 or something youre prolly good unless you want T-14 and even then you might get in.


You don't know OP's GPA, and with a 3.3 163 you're not getting T14. You're lucky if you're getting T50.
Most important thing is if you think you will do signifigantly better. Also if your going to have to wait a year( if youve taken three times like me, DONT wait, especially now. After the severe drops in medians the last few years they are starting to climb again and this a year a 163 very well get you the same thing a 167( spit alling here)will ina year or two. This is the best time to apply!( last year was better but thats not an option for anyone is it?)


That's a set of assertions. I consider it very unlikely that a 167 next year will be worth a 163 this year, and there's no reason to believe OP doesn't have Dec, and possibly even Feb/June available.

OP, the key question is - do you think you can do better. If you do, re-taking rarely has a downside. If you think you've already hit your limit, then there's little reason to retake. It doesn't get much more complicated than that, and that's why the final decision has to be yours.

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Ferrisjso

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Re: I got a 163, and I'm hearing conflicting advice about whether or not to retake

Postby Ferrisjso » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:21 am

kindofcanuck wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:Retaking is usually good advice but this site overdoses on it to much. Telling people who score 160+ they need to retake is insane to me.


Ooh! A firmly held, controversial view. I'm looking forward to the reasoning why.
Not saying you shouldnt but the positive of the retake while being greater than the negative is dramatically oversold on here.


Getting juicy, this is gonna be good

If your GPA is solid and the combo of both will get you into schools you like at prices youre happy with dont retake, unless the 163 is your first score and you are confident you can do better.


I think my browser deleted a para, it went straight from premise to conclusion without including reasoning... :(

Also keep in mind there is a good chance youll do worse. Today opened my eyes on that.


The argument fails to take into account (A) that doing worse rarely negatively affects an application (B) that they are already aware they can score less (C) you know what, I can't be bothered to come up with five. There's no reason in there why the stated thing would be a bad thing for OP.

My pre law advisor told me the potential negatives of retaking and i took this sites advice over her(also shes incompetent as hell and i still think most people on this site are more informed but in this one area concerning my case she was right).


OK, now I think we're getting somewhere. You retook and did worse, and are now worried it's going to be a drag on your apps. Relax. There's no reason to think a lower score will supersede a higher one.

A 163 is better than 9/10 people who take the thing and your stature in the TLS community is inherently going to be worse than among the legal world as a whole.


This is true, but not relevant

You should be thrilled.


Personal circumstances differ. I'd personally call flunking it (which I did too) devastating

If your GPA is really poor id share the view that a retake is a must but if youre above a 3.35 or something youre prolly good unless you want T-14 and even then you might get in.


You don't know OP's GPA, and with a 3.3 163 you're not getting T14. You're lucky if you're getting T50.
Most important thing is if you think you will do signifigantly better. Also if your going to have to wait a year( if youve taken three times like me, DONT wait, especially now. After the severe drops in medians the last few years they are starting to climb again and this a year a 163 very well get you the same thing a 167( spit alling here)will ina year or two. This is the best time to apply!( last year was better but thats not an option for anyone is it?)


That's a set of assertions. I consider it very unlikely that a 167 next year will be worth a 163 this year, and there's no reason to believe OP doesn't have Dec, and possibly even Feb/June available.

OP, the key question is - do you think you can do better. If you do, re-taking rarely has a downside. If you think you've already hit your limit, then there's little reason to retake. It doesn't get much more complicated than that, and that's why the final decision has to be yours.


Yeah I was drunk when I wrote this, please excuse my horrible grammar. I did over do it, to say the least but most of the sentiments I put in there are real. Good luck to OP. I was trying to play devils advocate on the retake issue( sonething rare to find on here). At the end of the day, he didnt give enough info for me to know whether my points were relevant or not. From the info I had I said he should retake.

Voyager

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Re: I got a 163, and I'm hearing conflicting advice about whether or not to retake

Postby Voyager » Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:06 pm

One thing everyone who scored in the low 160s but was practicing in the high 160s should keep in mind is that it is rather common for people to drop 5 points on test day.

Variety of reasons:
-Nerves
-Confirmation bias on estimating your current practice scores (people tend to "forget" bad practice tests and remember the good ones resulting in an inflated sense of practice average)
-Distractions at the test center
-The impact of reusing old practice exams you have already seen (inflates the score on your 2nd go around with the practice test)
-Etc.

So if you are going to retake, you are going to have to assume that a 163 or whatever is your ACTUAL SCORE right now and not just assume that if you took the LSAT tomorrow you would get a 169 or something.

That means you need to work super hard over the next 6 weeks...

If you are prepared to charge it hardcore then I say go for it, but if you are aren't mentally up for it (and frankly, who would blame you... prepping for this test is exhausting) then I say take the 163.

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guynourmin

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Re: I got a 163, and I'm hearing conflicting advice about whether or not to retake

Postby guynourmin » Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:13 pm

Voyager wrote:One thing everyone who scored in the low 160s but was practicing in the high 160s should keep in mind is that it is rather common for people to drop 5 points on test day.

Variety of reasons:
-Nerves
-Confirmation bias on estimating your current practice scores (people tend to "forget" bad practice tests and remember the good ones resulting in an inflated sense of practice average)
-Distractions at the test center
-The impact of reusing old practice exams you have already seen (inflates the score on your 2nd go around with the practice test)
-Etc.

So if you are going to retake, you are going to have to assume that a 163 or whatever is your ACTUAL SCORE right now and not just assume that if you took the LSAT tomorrow you would get a 169 or something.

That means you need to work super hard over the next 6 weeks...

If you are prepared to charge it hardcore then I say go for it, but if you are aren't mentally up for it (and frankly, who would blame you... prepping for this test is exhausting) then I say take the 163.



Basically, scoring at the low end of your PTs should be expected and acceptable. 100% agree.



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