desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

jeche
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desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby jeche » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:35 am

Hi all!
yesterday, I got my highest score yet, 167. I usually score 163 pretty solidly.
I studied using the Trainer and the 3 Powerscore Bibles
I was seriously considering buying the "advanced" course from powerscore but it kinda freaks me out that there are no substantial reviews on the course to be found (has anyone tried it?)

I was scrolling around a couple of the feeds on here and someone happened to mention that if you've already done powerscore, working with another company might be beneficial because they would be able to offer a different perspective/tactic. (thoughts?)

Since, I've been reading so much and since I have the weirdest sleep schedule ever I am kinda looking for a (not live) online course, something like Blueprint (but blueprint seems like I might waste too much time on concepts I already know (maybe I can buy parts of their courses? hmm..))

I have 100% accuracy on LG but I can not for the life of me do them in time
And I although I've gotten 0 questions wrong on timed sections of the LR, some LR sections I just bomb, with 4/5 wrong and 4 skipped. (so consistency is lacking)

I do only have 20 days until the LSAT, and I would reallyyy like to see some major improvements soon.
Any advice would be incredibly welcome

-Thanks in advance!! :D :D

grades??
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Re: desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby grades?? » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:37 am

Not to be a debbie downer but to get +10 points from your average in 20 days is going to be really hard to do (at this range). It might be worth it to think about the december exam instead.

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Clearly
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Re: desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby Clearly » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:45 am

We're talking about a virtual impossibility sadly. I've studied myself and taught many many students and I've never seen that jump ever. Just postpone and get the score you need next admin. You're right at the start of when the curve gets savage. To go from where you are to where you want to be, you probably have to cut your number of mistakes in half, rephrased you have to get twice as good. It's possible but I'd eat my hat if you did it in a few weeks.

jeche
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Re: desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby jeche » Sun Sep 04, 2016 12:17 pm

lol, well, I feel like I've done the impossible a couple of times, so I'm gunna try to go from zero to hero, if it doesn't work, then hey, I'll just try again. But at this point, is there a recommendation for any resource that could maybe perhaps get me that jump, or some jump.

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Barack O'Drama
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Re: desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby Barack O'Drama » Sun Sep 04, 2016 12:24 pm

Clearly wrote:We're talking about a virtual impossibility sadly. I've studied myself and taught many many students and I've never seen that jump ever. Just postpone and get the score you need next admin. You're right at the start of when the curve gets savage. To go from where you are to where you want to be, you probably have to cut your number of mistakes in half, rephrased you have to get twice as good. It's possible but I'd eat my hat if you did it in a few weeks.


You have to learn to respect this test if you want to get a 174 and thinking you can do that in 20 days... just isn't giving the test the respect it deserves. Clearly worded it perfectly... You need to get twice as good. I think that nails it! Going from a 164 to a 174 is insanely more difficult, literally exponentially more so, than going from a 154 to a 164. I'm actually right at that point myself after studying since June. I'm planning on taking in June of 2017 or whenever my PT average is a 175.

If you want a 174 then focus on that; not an arbitrary date. You don't only have 20 days, that is just a self-imposed deadline coupled with an unrealistic goal. Make your new goal your score and not 20 days.


As far as an online LSAT course, I would 100% recommend 7Sage. Check it out with a free 2-week trial. It's way more affordable and a much better value than every course out there I know of and many top scorers have used it and swear by it.


Good luck!
Last edited by Barack O'Drama on Sun Sep 04, 2016 12:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Clearly
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Re: desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby Clearly » Sun Sep 04, 2016 12:25 pm

Velocity lsat for games, seriously. There is no faster or more efficient approach to games. But I wouldn't expect to do it in a few weeks, you're likely going to have to unlearn a lot about games if you're accurate but not on time, it means you have techniques and they are slow, it'd almost be better to have no clue.

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Barack O'Drama
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Re: desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby Barack O'Drama » Sun Sep 04, 2016 12:34 pm

jeche wrote:lol, well, I feel like I've done the impossible a couple of times, so I'm gunna try to go from zero to hero, if it doesn't work, then hey, I'll just try again. But at this point, is there a recommendation for any resource that could maybe perhaps get me that jump, or some jump.



7Sage is my recommendation and making sure your LG game is as close to a -0 and as consistently as possible. No reason to leave those points on the table.


Don't waste a take in 20 days man.... If you're gunning for a 174, you may very well need all 3.

jeche
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Re: desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby jeche » Sun Sep 04, 2016 12:46 pm

my only two options for the LSAT are September and December so I don't really have three takes. But I'll definitely take your recommendation into consideration.
Okay, Perfect, those were the two I was looking at
anything for LR?

Part of me feels like theres just one little clue that I'm just missing, that's kind of why I feel like I can do September, I took too much time to read the books so I just started taking PTs and I've Improved so much in just two weeks, that maybe with just one extra push I can go over the top. But I guess we'll see. I really hope you guys are wrong, maybe I'll surprise you *shrug*

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Instrumental
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Re: desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby Instrumental » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:05 pm

There isn't really a single clue that you miss that lets you break the barrier. It's repeated studying that slowly shapes the way you think and approach questions. Good luck. I've been studying since June and the best I've managed is a 172.

20170322
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Re: desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby 20170322 » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:15 pm

Tbh, I'd just push to December or February. There's no penalty for taking it later or delaying a year.

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scalawag
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Re: desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby scalawag » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:16 pm

It's really hard to get from the 160s to the 170s. Barack's advice is pretty spot on, if you want a 174+ you have to take the time to study and bring your score up.

It's much harder to go from 160s to 170s. Trust me I was PTing in the mid 160s and I signed up for 7 Sage, I quit PTing but I'm not expecting to hit 170+ this time around.

All you really have to do to hit 160s is drill problem types. It's fairly easy to make that jump, you may get frustrated a little but you will make the jump sooner rather than later.

I haven't figured out what to do to break 170 (suggestions would be welcome). I'm doing the 7 Sage curriculum and sometimes I feel like I'm spinning my wheels but there is a lot of good stuff in there - he's really good at the LSAT.

My plan for my retake is to work through the Manhattan LR and RC books.

tskela
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Re: desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby tskela » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:33 pm

I've definitely had PTs where I just really badly screwed up a game (misread a rule, couldn't figure out a diagram, etc) and went -6. Or an RC passage that totally destroyed me. Alternatively, I've had games where the rules got really ingrained in my head and "clicked" for some reason, or a series of unusually interesting RC passages. Those kinds of things can for sure cause a large deviation from my average PT score.

So could you get wildly lucky on test day? It's not impossible.

I think there's some degree of luck involved if you're a relatively high, but not exceptional scorer (high 160s, I'd say). Speaking as someone who somehow scored 171 my first time with a good half of my PTs now dipping below 170, and half above.

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ponderingmeerkat
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Re: desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby ponderingmeerkat » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:45 pm

So, my buddies and I golf a lot. We always joke that going from a 30 handicap to a 10 is the same amount of work as it is to go from a 10 handicap to a 5.

The LSAT is similar. The amount of work to go from a 145 to a 165 is the same amount of work to improve from 165 to 170. Sucks man...expect a December to remember.

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Barack O'Drama
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Re: desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby Barack O'Drama » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:02 pm

jeche wrote:my only two options for the LSAT are September and December so I don't really have three takes. But I'll definitely take your recommendation into consideration.
Okay, Perfect, those were the two I was looking at
anything for LR?

Part of me feels like theres just one little clue that I'm just missing, that's kind of why I feel like I can do September, I took too much time to read the books so I just started taking PTs and I've Improved so much in just two weeks, that maybe with just one extra push I can go over the top. But I guess we'll see. I really hope you guys are wrong, maybe I'll surprise you *shrug*


I'm telling you, man, you need to curb the excessive hubris and listen to everyone telling you not to take it. There isn't one little clue you are missing. If there was one clue to mastering the LSAT it wouldn't be a hard test and we would all get 180s, lol. The closest thing to secrets I'll give you about the LSAT are to make sure you really understand arguments, the nature of support, and conditional logic. And make sure to blind review your tests.

You just started taking PTs and you've improved a lot already. So imagine what a few months can do? You got this man :)

Also, you don't only have 2 options for the LSAT and if I had a dollar for everytime someone had some ridiculous reason why they HAVE to take on X date, I'd have a few hundred dollars and would buy you a 7Sage course lol. No matter the reason, I assure you unless you have a terminal illness, you can take when you are ready. If you have a terminal illness I'm sorry. Heck, I'd advise you to postpone if you were scoring a 170 average already because those last few points will be harder to get than it was to get from 165 to 170.


Use 7Sage for LG and LR. I think it's good for everything, but some don't like the RC method.
Also, Manhattan LSAT Prep for LR worked wonders for me. They really teach you how to find and break down the argument core.

I'm not trying to be harsh, so sorry if it seems that way, but I am trying to help you. Ask yourself why you want that 174 and why you want to go to law school. Law school is harder than the LSAT and the bar is harder than law school. If you can't put in the time and have the patience now, you might end up on here in a year during 1L at a TT at sticker asking if you can begin studying for finals with a few weeks left and still get As.

Getting a good LSAT is a much easier and lucrative path if you give yourself the time.

Good luck!

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Barack O'Drama
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Re: desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby Barack O'Drama » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:03 pm

ponderingmeerkat wrote:So, my buddies and I golf a lot. We always joke that going from a 30 handicap to a 10 is the same amount of work as it is to go from a 10 handicap to a 5.

The LSAT is similar. The amount of work to go from a 145 to a 165 is the same amount of work to improve from 165 to 170. Sucks man...expect a December to remember.



Also, I LOVE this analogy. So true for golf and SO true for the LSAT!

HYPSM
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Re: desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby HYPSM » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:21 pm

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Last edited by HYPSM on Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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littlewing67
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Re: desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby littlewing67 » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:56 pm

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Last edited by littlewing67 on Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Clearly
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Re: desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby Clearly » Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:27 pm

xolailaxo wrote:Maybe 174 is not in reach, but I believe for you, you are making timing sound like a really big problem. I had an LSAT watch before and just bought the mastermind watch (https://mastermindwatch.com/). Try timing yourself and giving yourself 45 minutes a section, then 40, then eventually 35. There's also a couple time tables I use like the first 10 questions 10 minutes, next 10 10 minutes, and the last couple of ones the rest of your time (I just guessed the times I forgot exactly how much time I use). I think once you do not have to skip questions and you can actually do the problems your score will improve.

My only advice in terms of courses is don't do Kaplan. Waste of money. But good luck! :D

Problem with timing on the LSAT =/= can't tell time lol

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Clearly
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Re: desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby Clearly » Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:36 pm

As for my original recommendation just please actually look into it. 7Sage is very much in fashion here and for many things it's a great program and many people do well with it, but I personally found it to have some glaring holes when I worked through it for LG. As someone who sucked at LG, started at 150, plateaued where you are and eventually beat your target score by several points I do sincerely believe velocity is the best approach for LG, especially if timing is the issue. I don't intend to bash 7sage because it is a solid program, but I just wanted to stress my experience on this so you can research on your own and make your own informed decision.

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MEAhrnsbrak
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Re: desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby MEAhrnsbrak » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:23 am

For the Logical Reasoning sections the thing that helped me most was to stop timing myself. I know that sounds weird, but when I stopped timing myself I took the time to prove why all of the answer choices I was not choosing were wrong. When you prove why they are wrong time after time after time it starts getting easier to do and you start getting faster since the correct answers become glaringly obvious because you are familiar with the tricks and trades of the LSAT. Now when I do time myself I am consistently scoring 22 or 23/25 on the LR sections whereas previously I was in the 15 to 18/25 range. Good luck!

tskela
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Re: desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby tskela » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:30 am

Clearly wrote:As for my original recommendation just please actually look into it. 7Sage is very much in fashion here and for many things it's a great program and many people do well with it, but I personally found it to have some glaring holes when I worked through it for LG. As someone who sucked at LG, started at 150, plateaued where you are and eventually beat your target score by several points I do sincerely believe velocity is the best approach for LG, especially if timing is the issue. I don't intend to bash 7sage because it is a solid program, but I just wanted to stress my experience on this so you can research on your own and make your own informed decision.


With 7sage I've gotten to a point where I usually go -0/-1, or, more rarely, -2/-3/-4 if a particular game just didn't click for me and I ended up brute-forcing myself through it/running out of time.

I've seen a couple of Velocity LG explanations where the time he takes to solve the game + leisurely talk through his process was faster than it took me to solve it on paper. I'm thinking of adopting some Velocity methods even though I'm taking the LSAT in September. Specifically, the method of keeping prior work stacked up for quick reference on future questions. Do you think this would be simple enough to incorporate within the next several weeks? I feel like not referencing prior work is the major hole in my LG skill set right now, but I don't want to get worse before I get better, like you warned earlier in this thread.

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Clearly
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Re: desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby Clearly » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:39 am

If you're not using prior work effectively you're losing massive amounts of time. I'd watch the videos where he walks you through it and try to work those concepts in if you're still all gung ho about September. But seriously, I can't advocate for continuing to ingrain an approach that isn't working for you in the hopes of a score that takes much more time than you have.

tskela
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Re: desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby tskela » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:50 am

Clearly wrote:If you're not using prior work effectively you're losing massive amounts of time. I'd watch the videos where he walks you through it and try to work those concepts in if you're still all gung ho about September. But seriously, I can't advocate for continuing to ingrain an approach that isn't working for you in the hopes of a score that takes much more time than you have.


I took a year off in the hopes of improving my 171 from 2014, but I'm at a point now where I'm not willing to lose another year on it. It would mean another year of working at a job I hate just for a couple extra points that may or may not be worth it. So yeah, pretty gung ho about September. But your advice is duly noted

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Clearly
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Re: desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby Clearly » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:22 am

tskela wrote:
Clearly wrote:If you're not using prior work effectively you're losing massive amounts of time. I'd watch the videos where he walks you through it and try to work those concepts in if you're still all gung ho about September. But seriously, I can't advocate for continuing to ingrain an approach that isn't working for you in the hopes of a score that takes much more time than you have.


I took a year off in the hopes of improving my 171 from 2014, but I'm at a point now where I'm not willing to lose another year on it. It would mean another year of working at a job I hate just for a couple extra points that may or may not be worth it. So yeah, pretty gung ho about September. But your advice is duly noted

Whoops! Thought you were OP haha

rk42
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Re: desperately trying to score above a 174 in 20 days

Postby rk42 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:36 am

Maybe you can do it if you're this guy.

https://blueprintlsat.com/lsatblog/lsat ... -the-lsat/




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