How would you study for a retake if you burned through all the PTs?

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olikatz
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How would you study for a retake if you burned through all the PTs?

Postby olikatz » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:14 pm

Just wondering if this is something that I would need to take some time off to forget the questions that I previously drilled or PTed? I would imagine some familiar questions would come up. Also if I know I would need to retake would I be well advised to leave some PTs alone to have fresh ones for the next test?

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Barack O'Drama
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Re: How would you study for a retake if you burned through all the PTs?

Postby Barack O'Drama » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:44 pm

olikatz wrote:Just wondering if this is something that I would need to take some time off to forget the questions that I previously drilled or PTed? I would imagine some familiar questions would come up. Also if I know I would need to retake would I be well advised to leave some PTs alone to have fresh ones for the next test?


I think there are enough tests out there to put some to the side in case of a retake. I don't see much good in doing all 78 PTS. After a while, you're just getting diminishing returns. Way better off re-doing 20-30 and learning from them then taking them all. Plus it allows you to put some aside.

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Good Guy Gaud
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Re: How would you study for a retake if you burned through all the PTs?

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:49 pm

Reduce the amount of time you give yourself per section by 5-10 minutes

HYPSM
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Re: How would you study for a retake if you burned through all the PTs?

Postby HYPSM » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:43 pm

Can anyone speak to the effectiveness of re-doing PTs (from personal experience)? Some people say it helps, while others say that it's not as helpful because they could remember the answer (or didn't have to "think as hard").

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Good Guy Gaud
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Re: How would you study for a retake if you burned through all the PTs?

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:14 pm

HYPSM wrote:Can anyone speak to the effectiveness of re-doing PTs (from personal experience)? Some people say it helps, while others say that it's not as helpful because they could remember the answer (or didn't have to "think as hard").


I wouldn't redo PTs if you don't have to, but if you're looking at a retake or even a second retake that's likely not an option anymore.

I remembered some answers for sure but would do everything I could to minimize any boost that that might have given me (e.g., reducing the amount of time I had per section). I also noticed that sometimes I would lean towards picking the same wrong answer I had chosen the prior time I took that PT or completed that section, so you do still have to be critical about your approach. In any event, remembering the answers isn't necessarily a bad thing. The LSAT is a test of repetition. Questions on different exams, although technically different, are often very similar because they're testing the same thing.

HYPSM
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Re: How would you study for a retake if you burned through all the PTs?

Postby HYPSM » Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:23 pm

Good Guy Gaud wrote:
HYPSM wrote:Can anyone speak to the effectiveness of re-doing PTs (from personal experience)? Some people say it helps, while others say that it's not as helpful because they could remember the answer (or didn't have to "think as hard").


I wouldn't redo PTs if you don't have to, but if you're looking at a retake or even a second retake that's likely not an option anymore.

I remembered some answers for sure but would do everything I could to minimize any boost that that might have given me (e.g., reducing the amount of time I had per section). I also noticed that sometimes I would lean towards picking the same wrong answer I had chosen the prior time I took that PT or completed that section, so you do still have to be critical about your approach. In any event, remembering the answers isn't necessarily a bad thing. The LSAT is a test of repetition. Questions on different exams, although technically different, are often very similar because they're testing the same thing.


Gotcha, thanks!

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Blueprint Mithun
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Re: How would you study for a retake if you burned through all the PTs?

Postby Blueprint Mithun » Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:14 pm

olikatz wrote:Just wondering if this is something that I would need to take some time off to forget the questions that I previously drilled or PTed? I would imagine some familiar questions would come up. Also if I know I would need to retake would I be well advised to leave some PTs alone to have fresh ones for the next test?


I think you should leave a bunch alone in case you need fresh ones for a retake. For one, 78 PTs is a LOT, you can get a ton of practice in by doing much less than all of those. As for repeating tests, I think the volume of the tests are so high that you're not going to remember as much as you think. You'll get flashes of recognitions here and there, but for the most part, I don't think you're going to remember the answers or the exact way you got to the solution in the past. And like someone else mentioned, the repetition isn't necessarily a bad thing. Do a certain question the second time might lead to the breakthrough that makes those types of questions easier in the future.

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olikatz
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Re: How would you study for a retake if you burned through all the PTs?

Postby olikatz » Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:28 pm

Blueprint Mithun wrote:
olikatz wrote:Just wondering if this is something that I would need to take some time off to forget the questions that I previously drilled or PTed? I would imagine some familiar questions would come up. Also if I know I would need to retake would I be well advised to leave some PTs alone to have fresh ones for the next test?


I think you should leave a bunch alone in case you need fresh ones for a retake. For one, 78 PTs is a LOT, you can get a ton of practice in by doing much less than all of those. As for repeating tests, I think the volume of the tests are so high that you're not going to remember as much as you think. You'll get flashes of recognitions here and there, but for the most part, I don't think you're going to remember the answers or the exact way you got to the solution in the past. And like someone else mentioned, the repetition isn't necessarily a bad thing. Do a certain question the second time might lead to the breakthrough that makes those types of questions easier in the future.


Do you have a number of PTs that you recommend one go off of for studying for a single test?

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Blueprint Mithun
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Re: How would you study for a retake if you burned through all the PTs?

Postby Blueprint Mithun » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:04 pm

olikatz wrote:
Blueprint Mithun wrote:
olikatz wrote:Just wondering if this is something that I would need to take some time off to forget the questions that I previously drilled or PTed? I would imagine some familiar questions would come up. Also if I know I would need to retake would I be well advised to leave some PTs alone to have fresh ones for the next test?


I think you should leave a bunch alone in case you need fresh ones for a retake. For one, 78 PTs is a LOT, you can get a ton of practice in by doing much less than all of those. As for repeating tests, I think the volume of the tests are so high that you're not going to remember as much as you think. You'll get flashes of recognitions here and there, but for the most part, I don't think you're going to remember the answers or the exact way you got to the solution in the past. And like someone else mentioned, the repetition isn't necessarily a bad thing. Do a certain question the second time might lead to the breakthrough that makes those types of questions easier in the future.


Do you have a number of PTs that you recommend one go off of for studying for a single test?


Unfortunately not. It's hard to give a number, or even a general range when different students have different needs and goals. I will say that I think taking a ton of preptests is sometimes overstressed here on TLS. Not that it isn't great practice, but it's sometimes touted as the only real way to improve, ignoring the usefulness of drilling and careful review.

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RamTitan
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Re: How would you study for a retake if you burned through all the PTs?

Postby RamTitan » Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:02 pm

I'm going through this exact scenario as we speak; burned through all of my test materials (besides 29-38) during the course of a year while studying for this past June. I even did some retakes before that test, and am actually doing a few re-retakes for this one lol.

I obviously can't tell you the results of this method, but I am a strong advocate of it, because of the following:

1. You won't remember almost any of the material.
2. It's an excellent learning tool. I found that I really started to understand the patterns of the test and its tricks when seeing a test again.
3. It's also a confidence booster seeing those high scores. While it's not an accurate indicator of your score, it's still not an inaccurate indicator if you get what I mean. Once you reach a certain plateau with the LSAT (like the low 170s, high 160s, and are not seeing a lot of improvement), the head games will get you, and it's important to walk into the test with confidence.

I'd say you should do all of the modern tests (60-78) at least once before your first dance, and do a few of those twice. Then save a handful of 40-59 to keep as a barometer of your score in case of a retake.

peachyjade
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Re: How would you study for a retake if you burned through all the PTs?

Postby peachyjade » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:48 pm

I am not in the exact same boat but I reuse my materials a lot since I am constantly worried about running out of fresh materials. I started studying in late March/early April, have re-used probably 50% of the materials from before PT20s (I'd say I have done each game at least twice based on 7sage foolproof method, RC*2, certain LR categories like assumptions, MBT and flaw at least twice). I PT'ed a couple of times with materials from early PT60s and was consistently in the upper 160 range (157 diagnostic). I have very minimal recall of most of the materials whatsoever, and for the most part I am able to discipline myself to actually working through each game, LR question and passage--it is easier for LG, but difficult for certain LR questions. But if it is a question I got wrong in May and reviewed, but got it wrong again in August, I know I've hit a gold mine :lol:

So I do think that you could still gain improvements by going back to old materials--you might have to be creative. Familiarity isn't actually an issue under untimed conditions--at least not for me. But the tricky thing is to test that improvement through a PT--when you are under timed conditions I think your brain just automatically spits out answers based on memories. Every time you take a full timed PT, you are supposed to learn something new about your strengths and weaknesses, and fresh materials are much better at revealing those things compared to the ones you have already seen.

If you have already covered a great majority of PTs, what I suggest is to sort out all of them and categorize by how well you know them: leave out the more modern ones and the ones you know the least well for later use, and use what you know moderately well for drilling. As for the ones you know too well--as in, when you see the stimulus, you know the correct answer is "E" but can't provide the justification for it--you can either just leave and not use it, or do your best to resist the memory-induced intuition and work through it. Improving is possible by reusing old materials, but yes, you'll need fresh tests for proper and accurate diagnosis. So save them while you can!

Good luck!

quigleyest
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Re: How would you study for a retake if you burned through all the PTs?

Postby quigleyest » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:04 pm

Does anyone know when they will release the upcoming tests to purchase? June 2016 and September 2016? Would September 2016 be available for December takers?

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RamTitan
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Re: How would you study for a retake if you burned through all the PTs?

Postby RamTitan » Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:20 am

quigleyest wrote:Does anyone know when they will release the upcoming tests to purchase? June 2016 and September 2016? Would September 2016 be available for December takers?

June 2016 is already available; they usually are released about 6 weeks after people sit for the exam, so the Sept. one will be available before Dec.

Voyager
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Re: How would you study for a retake if you burned through all the PTs?

Postby Voyager » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:48 pm

You burned through every practice test? wow.

I took 34 practice tests and still had plenty left over.

To address your immediate question: highly likely you have forgotten the first ones you took

Unsolicited advice: sounds like you might be focused too much on taking tests instead of doing section drills. You might see better improvement if you took a practice test, say, twice a week and spent the other days drilling problem areas.

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SunDevil14
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Re: How would you study for a retake if you burned through all the PTs?

Postby SunDevil14 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:36 pm

In a similar situation. Consistently hitting 168-171 band. I have a fresh set PT's 72 to 78, and am not sure if I want to use them up before the test in September, or save in case I decide to reschedule (I have already taken the test once, and do not have to have 2 retakes). Not sure what to do.

I have narrowed my problems areas to only 2 to 3 question type on LR, if I can master those in next week in and a half then I'd have no trouble getting 170+ each time. I am concerned I wont be better prepared since I have used up the majority of the modern PT's and study material.

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RamTitan
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Re: How would you study for a retake if you burned through all the PTs?

Postby RamTitan » Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:50 pm

SunDevil14 wrote:In a similar situation. Consistently hitting 168-171 band. I have a fresh set PT's 72 to 78, and am not sure if I want to use them up before the test in September, or save in case I decide to reschedule (I have already taken the test once, and do not have to have 2 retakes). Not sure what to do.

I have narrowed my problems areas to only 2 to 3 question type on LR, if I can master those in next week in and a half then I'd have no trouble getting 170+ each time. I am concerned I wont be better prepared since I have used up the majority of the modern PT's and study material.

Take 2-3 of those tests, and save the rest. The 70s are different enough from earlier LSATs to warrant preparing for them.

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SunDevil14
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Re: How would you study for a retake if you burned through all the PTs?

Postby SunDevil14 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:30 pm

I am leaning towards postponing until the December test. So will likely save most if not all, until closer to the December test date.




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