How to improve?

Prepare for the LSAT or discuss it with others in this forum.
HaveMercy

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Re: How to improve?

Postby HaveMercy » Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:22 pm

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Last edited by HaveMercy on Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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FayRays

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Re: How to improve?

Postby FayRays » Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:29 pm

Replitz wrote:
FayRays wrote:
Replitz wrote:I've been studying for about 5 weeks now, plan on taking the September test.

My complete PT history has been this:

163 (diagnostic)
176 PT 29
177 PT 30
173 PT 31
175 PT 32
177 PT 33
176 PT 34
173 PT 35

Average: 175.3

If anything, I'm consistent... everything has been between 173-177. But there's no clear trend in my scores, for better or for worse. I tend to get between -1 to -4 on each section, with a -0 every once and a while. My wrong answers don't adhere to a particular type, although I've noticed about half are due to stupid mistakes (not reading all answer choices, missing a word in the question stem, etc) and half are due to a true lack of understanding.

After each test I go over my wrong answers, and really try to understand why I got them wrong by reading the Manhattan forums and watching 7sage explanations. This doesn't seem to be helping much, as I continue to get roughly the same amount wrong every PT.

Any advice? Have I reached my cap?


This is great. Maybe you are making these small mistakes because you are going too fast.
what about the new pt tests? have you tried any of them to see how much will you get.

Hey by the way, just out of curiosity, I wonder what did you use as preparation for the test


I keep a log of every single study session. Here's what I've been doing:

6/5 12:00 PM 1:20 PM 1:20 Powerscore logic bible
6/5 3:30 PM 6:00 PM 2:30 Powerscore logic bible
6/6 8:00 PM 9:20 PM 1:20 Powerscore logic bible
6/17 12:00 PM 4:42 PM 4:42 Diagnostic, score: 163
6/19 1:50 PM 6:27 PM 4:37 PT 40 Review, logic games drilling on PT 39
6/20 5:55 PM 7:30 PM 1:35 PT 29 Logic Games 1-2
6/23 1:36 PM 4:50 PM 3:14 PT 29 Logic Games 1-4, PT 30 Logic Games 1-2
6/27 7:30 PM 9:00 PM 1:30 PT 30 Logic Games 1-4
6/28 7:30 PM 8:30 PM 1:00 PT 31 LG 1-2
6/28 9:30 PM 9:55 PM 0:25 PT 31 LG 1-2
6/29 6:50 PM 9:07 PM 2:17 PT 31 LG 3-4, PT 32 LG 1-4
6/30 10:15 AM 11:15 AM 1:00 PT32 LG 4, PT33 LG 1
6/30 11:40 AM 11:56 AM 0:16 PT 33 LG 2
6/30 3:15 PM 5:00 PM 1:45 PT 33 LG 3-4, PT 34 LG 1-2
7/5 11:10 AM 12:10 PM 1:00 PT 34 1-4
7/5 12:30 PM 2:15 PM 1:45 PT 34 4, PT 35 LG 1-4
7/6 11:40 AM 1:20 PM 1:40 PT 36 LG 1-4
7/6 2:45 PM 3:45 PM 1:00 PT 37 LG 1-4
7/6 4:20 PM 5:34 PM 1:14 PT 38 LG 1-4
7/7 10:20 AM 2:13 PM 3:53 Drilling 34(4), 36(3), 37(3), 37(4), 39(1-4), 40(1-4)
7/7 2:22 PM 3:00 PM 0:38 29 (1-2) (-0)
7/8 10:02 AM 12:47 PM 2:45 29 (3-4) (-3), 30 (1-4), 31 (1-4)
7/8 2:20 PM 2:50 PM 0:30
7/12 11:10 AM 1:30 PM 2:20 31 3-4 Warmup, 33(1-4), LR Book 1-35
7/12 2:40 PM 4:30 PM 1:50 LR Book 36-80
7/13 9:26 AM 9:55 AM 0:29
7/13 10:20 AM 11:45 AM 1:25 LR Book 80-92
7/13 3:37 PM 4:00 PM 0:23
7/13 4:34 PM 5:03 PM 0:29 LR Book 92-End
7/13 6:12 PM 9:10 PM 2:58 RC Book 1-End, retook June 2003 RC, -1 on question 27 in 29:00
7/14 9:15 AM 12:15 PM 3:00 PT 29 Timed sections 1-3
7/14 1:00 PM 1:55 PM 0:55 PT 29 Timed section 4 and review. Score: 176
7/14 2:30 PM 5:34 PM 3:04 PT 30 Timed, 177
7/15 11:00 AM 12:55 PM 1:55 PT 31 Timed sections 1-2
7/15 1:20 PM 3:25 PM 2:05 PT 31 Timed sections 3-4, Score: 172
7/16 12:30 PM 3:45 PM 3:15 PT 41, Score: 175
7/17 7:30 PM 10:30 PM 3:00 PT 32, Score: 175
7/18 9:45 AM 10:30 AM 0:45 PT 32 BR
7/18 3:30 PM 5:40 PM 2:10 PT 33 1 and 4
7/19 10:30 AM 12:30 PM 2:00 PT 33 2 and 3, Score: 177
7/19 3:45 PM 5:30 PM 1:45 PT 33 1-2
7/20 9:30 AM 11:00 AM 1:30 PT 34 3-4 Need to read every incorrect answer choice, EVERY WORD. Score: 176
7/20 11:36 AM 12:15 PM 0:39 PT 35 1
7/20 2:05 PM 5:00 PM 2:55 PT 35 2-4, Score: 173



Wow thank you for your help.. This is very helpful, and by the way I agree fully with MyNameIsntJames you should get a 180, believe you can do it if you try follow his advice.

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maybeman

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Re: How to improve?

Postby maybeman » Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:35 pm

HaveMercy wrote:
maybeman wrote:
HaveMercy wrote:
maybeman wrote:
The whole point of BR, and why I disagree with NotJames, is that when you check your ACs and then go back you don't learn how to select correct ACs through your own analysis/intuition to the same extent. There really isn't a "best" way to get better -- the best way is always personal -- so take all of this with a grain of salt.

Obviously there is no best way, that's why I am trying to see what works best for me. I just kinda agree with him that many times in my last BR I would be like "that's obviously not it" or "out of scope", which yeah, may be me analyzing it right, but I want to get the most out of it cause I feel like I'm horrible at LR. What would you recommend then? I am a sponge for new ideas.


If you want to go ham, don't circle anything and BR the whole PT/whatever you're doing. While combing back through the questions, pretend like your bubbled AC isn't there -- and don't move onto the next question until you feel 100% sure (or as close as is feasibly possible) on your recheck.

Haha this is good stuff. I'll actually do this. My problem is never time, I usually finish with like 3-5 mins left but still get them wrong - so its a reasoning issue. Would it be better to just go through each problem on my first take like it was a BR or is it beneficial to actually take the timed test still.


I'd still take it timed for realistic practice

MyNameIsntJames

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Re: How to improve?

Postby MyNameIsntJames » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:18 am

maybeman wrote:
HaveMercy wrote:
MyNameIsntJames wrote:
HaveMercy wrote:
MyNameIsntJames wrote:
Replitz wrote:1.) Do a PT LR section.
2.) Don't BR, just check your answers.
3.) Regardless of your score, go through each and every single question.
4.) On every question, write/type down why each wrong answer was wrong. Walk yourself through the logic of why answers A, C, D, E couldn't have been right in YOUR WORDS.
5.) Write down why the correct answer was correct in YOUR WORDS.

Do you recommend this technique over actually BRing every single AC?



I do because it relies on the same process as BR to an even greater extent. With BR you're just checking your answer over again and saying "Yup, that's right to me" and moving on and that's all she wrote. If you check after BR & find you are indeed right then you probably won't even look at that question again. This method forces you to evaluate and shell out each question by choice and method. That could help you a million times more than BR

So you specifically go through each AC or do you kinda write a paragraph explaining this to yourself? An example would be really appreciated because I just started BRing after deciding to retake and i'm not sure which technique to carry on with cause this sounds in theory like a good idea


The whole point of BR, and why I disagree with NotJames, is that when you check your ACs and then go back you don't learn how to select correct ACs through your own analysis/intuition to the same extent. There really isn't a "best" way to get better -- the best way is always personal -- so take all of this with a grain of salt.



Your response confuses me. You say "when you check your ACs and then go back you don't learn how to select correct ACs through your own analysis/intuition to the same extent."


Unless you're guessing on every question then you would've had to do this to get the correct answer to begin with. BR also doesn't analyze at all why wrong answer choices are wrong, you're just making sure you're right & nearly 100% of the time you'll agree w yourself, even if you're wrong unless you catch a glaring error due to misreading the question/stem or answer choices. You're just going to walk through the same process. Looking back and explaining why the other 4 answers were wrong will make you even better prepared in the future to find the correct answer.


Wrong answers on the LSAT move in patterns. The more you dissect why answers are wrong, the more you can look for clues about which answer is wrong when you get down to those "It has to be A or C" dilemmas that SO MANY of us get in. I have to say, besides careless errors, that "it has to be A or C" dilemma is probably responsible for 90%+ of wrong answers for 165+ scorers. You might do better off if, in your reasoning process, you not only look at why an answer should be correct but you also consider why one choice should be wrong.

If one answer must be right then the others must be wrong and if you can accurately evaluate why any given answer is wrong just as much as you can evaluate why an answer is right, you are in a powerful position to -0 LR sections. Most people can't do the former ^ and they wonder why they keep getting those "it's between two choice" problems wrong.

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maybeman

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Re: How to improve?

Postby maybeman » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:50 pm

MyNameIsntJames wrote:
maybeman wrote:
HaveMercy wrote:
MyNameIsntJames wrote:
HaveMercy wrote:
MyNameIsntJames wrote:
Replitz wrote:1.) Do a PT LR section.
2.) Don't BR, just check your answers.
3.) Regardless of your score, go through each and every single question.
4.) On every question, write/type down why each wrong answer was wrong. Walk yourself through the logic of why answers A, C, D, E couldn't have been right in YOUR WORDS.
5.) Write down why the correct answer was correct in YOUR WORDS.

Do you recommend this technique over actually BRing every single AC?



I do because it relies on the same process as BR to an even greater extent. With BR you're just checking your answer over again and saying "Yup, that's right to me" and moving on and that's all she wrote. If you check after BR & find you are indeed right then you probably won't even look at that question again. This method forces you to evaluate and shell out each question by choice and method. That could help you a million times more than BR

So you specifically go through each AC or do you kinda write a paragraph explaining this to yourself? An example would be really appreciated because I just started BRing after deciding to retake and i'm not sure which technique to carry on with cause this sounds in theory like a good idea


The whole point of BR, and why I disagree with NotJames, is that when you check your ACs and then go back you don't learn how to select correct ACs through your own analysis/intuition to the same extent. There really isn't a "best" way to get better -- the best way is always personal -- so take all of this with a grain of salt.



Your response confuses me. You say "when you check your ACs and then go back you don't learn how to select correct ACs through your own analysis/intuition to the same extent."



Unless you're guessing on every question then you would've had to do this to get the correct answer to begin with. BR also doesn't analyze at all why wrong answer choices are wrong, you're just making sure you're right & nearly 100% of the time you'll agree w yourself, even if you're wrong unless you catch a glaring error due to misreading the question/stem or answer choices. You're just going to walk through the same process. Looking back and explaining why the other 4 answers were wrong will make you even better prepared in the future to find the correct answer.


Wrong answers on the LSAT move in patterns. The more you dissect why answers are wrong, the more you can look for clues about which answer is wrong when you get down to those "It has to be A or C" dilemmas that SO MANY of us get in. I have to say, besides careless errors, that "it has to be A or C" dilemma is probably responsible for 90%+ of wrong answers for 165+ scorers. You might do better off if, in your reasoning process, you not only look at why an answer should be correct but you also consider why one choice should be wrong.

If one answer must be right then the others must be wrong and if you can accurately evaluate why any given answer is wrong just as much as you can evaluate why an answer is right, you are in a powerful position to -0 LR sections. Most people can't do the former ^ and they wonder why they keep getting those "it's between two choice" problems wrong.


Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPhj7pUiVS8

HaveMercy

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Re: How to improve?

Postby HaveMercy » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:59 pm

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Last edited by HaveMercy on Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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maybeman

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Re: How to improve?

Postby maybeman » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:06 pm

HaveMercy wrote:

I've been BRing on my last two PTs. My question is after you BR and explain why the ACs were right/wrong, do you go to sites like Manhattan Prep or LSAT Hacks and see if your reasoning was correct?



I haven't yet, but if I encountered a question I'm not fully confident my reasoning is sound on post-BR & post-AC check, then I would watch a 7Sage video for an explanation. If you're still confused after BR, definitely find a thorough explanation

MyNameIsntJames

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Re: How to improve?

Postby MyNameIsntJames » Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:02 am

maybeman wrote:
HaveMercy wrote:

I've been BRing on my last two PTs. My question is after you BR and explain why the ACs were right/wrong, do you go to sites like Manhattan Prep or LSAT Hacks and see if your reasoning was correct?



I haven't yet, but if I encountered a question I'm not fully confident my reasoning is sound on post-BR & post-AC check, then I would watch a 7Sage video for an explanation. If you're still confused after BR, definitely find a thorough explanation



lol @ the guy saying "this is the only way to study LR if you're doing it any other way you're doing it wrong."

His claims about you "wasting 35 minutes" if you don't BR may have been the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. And I mean that.

If I'm consistently getting no more than -3 wrong on an LR section, I'm not getting "lucky guesses" I know my shit point blank. Same for you & anyone else doing that. You don't get lucky on the LSAT. The test is literally designed with 4 wrong answer choices to entice anyone guessing or who doesn't thoroughly comprehend the question and/or logic. I check the answers because I BR'd my question when I did it. I don't luck up on any answer. If I got it right I know why and I did the logic process to get there or I wouldn't have picked it. You know if you guessed or not. How do you guess logic? The guy who made that video is a moron. I'm sorry but it actually made me mad lol like the audacity of this dickhead

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Barack O'Drama

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Re: How to improve?

Postby Barack O'Drama » Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:34 am

MyNameIsntJames wrote:
maybeman wrote:
HaveMercy wrote:

I've been BRing on my last two PTs. My question is after you BR and explain why the ACs were right/wrong, do you go to sites like Manhattan Prep or LSAT Hacks and see if your reasoning was correct?



I haven't yet, but if I encountered a question I'm not fully confident my reasoning is sound on post-BR & post-AC check, then I would watch a 7Sage video for an explanation. If you're still confused after BR, definitely find a thorough explanation



lol @ the guy saying "this is the only way to study LR if you're doing it any other way you're doing it wrong."

His claims about you "wasting 35 minutes" if you don't BR may have been the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. And I mean that.

If I'm consistently getting no more than -3 wrong on an LR section, I'm not getting "lucky guesses" I know my shit point blank. Same for you & anyone else doing that. You don't get lucky on the LSAT. The test is literally designed with 4 wrong answer choices to entice anyone guessing or who doesn't thoroughly comprehend the question and/or logic. I check the answers because I BR'd my question when I did it. I don't luck up on any answer. If I got it right I know why and I did the logic process to get there or I wouldn't have picked it. You know if you guessed or not. How do you guess logic? The guy who made that video is a moron. I'm sorry but it actually made me mad lol like the audacity of this dickhead


JY, the guy in the video, is a Harvard Law Grad and creator of 7Sage LSAT. He also scored in the 170s on his original LSAT, so I doubt he is a moron.

And that video is a part of the full 7Sage lesson, so when he says "this is the only way....." it seems like hyperbole, but that is because it is out of context and meant to be utilized as part of the entire 7Sage philosophy.

As far as you thinking BR is useless, I don't know how you could be so audacious? You claim that you BR when you did it? OK, that is just a patently absurd statement. Your testing is done under timed conditions; BR is done untimed. When you have the luxury of unlimited time, one can dissect the argument again, and really spend time understanding why the right answer is right, and the wrong answer is wrong. If you are going -3 on LR you are clearly doing well. And one of the reasons you might not be able to get that down to -0 is using too much intuition. Not that it is always a bad thing, but sometimes our intuitions are wrong. Often the LSAT's curve breaker questions can manipulate your intuitions and cause you to miss those 3 questions. BR helps to reinforce the logic behind the questions. It also is great because it truly allows you to see the patterns in the right/wrong answer choices. You mention that you already notice them, but imagine how much more you would learn from studying the test more thoroughly, untimed.

If you BR the questions when you did it, then why aren't you going -0 on every section? Clearly that is a rhetorical question, and further proof your characterization of BR and that you "BR[ing] your questions when you did them" is false. You didn't or you'd have realized that you don't "have your shit point blank" or else you'd be scoring 180s.

Also, lucky guesses happen. Maybe they aren't 100% luck, but there are ones everyone gets right, and in the moment they aren't 100% sure if they are right or not. Granted you may have eliminated most of the wrong answers, you still take a guess sometimes. Or you're just completely wrong and think you're choosing the right answer which is another read why BR is quite helpful.

Another reason why BR'ing is so helpful is because if you take PT/timed section and simply just look up explanations or the answers after you are done, then you are effectively just gambling. That is how JY describes it anyway. His reasoning is that by just going straight to see how many you got wrong you aren't really learning as much as you could. Sure, you can go back and reverse engineer the question after you have the answer, and that may help. But it certainly doesn't re-train you brain as effectively to reasoning correctly the next time you approach a question like that.

Which brings me to my last point, and an often overlooked point/goal of BR'ing--retraining your brain.

When you BR, part of it is retraining your brain. So if you got an answer choice wrong because of faulty reasoning, then you need to block out whatever you did and ensure you do not make the same error. When you go through the stimulus/stem/ACs during BR you should be cognizant of your thought process that finally leads you to the right answer. Or, if you got it correct, you should make sure you understand exactly how you arrived at said correct answer and make sure to reinforce it. As you can see, simply checking your answers won't do this for you.

Lastly, I admit that BR'ing isn't the only way to improve on LR. There is no doubt that if you simply look up the answers after, or use some other similar method you will probably also make improvements. I think the thing about BR'ing is that it seems to just make a lot of sense that it is the more effective way to make improvements. At least for a lot of people.

tl;dr: In carefully reviewing each section with BR, including your best ones, you aim to gain confidence from answering correctly based on our *processes*, not on whether your AC matches the right AC. This is what Blind Review is about.

ETA: Sorry, on my phone and autocorrect always fucks things up.
Last edited by Barack O'Drama on Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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maybeman

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Re: How to improve?

Postby maybeman » Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:09 pm

Barack O'Drama wrote:
MyNameIsntJames wrote:
maybeman wrote:
HaveMercy wrote:

I've been BRing on my last two PTs. My question is after you BR and explain why the ACs were right/wrong, do you go to sites like Manhattan Prep or LSAT Hacks and see if your reasoning was correct?



I haven't yet, but if I encountered a question I'm not fully confident my reasoning is sound on post-BR & post-AC check, then I would watch a 7Sage video for an explanation. If you're still confused after BR, definitely find a thorough explanation



lol @ the guy saying "this is the only way to study LR if you're doing it any other way you're doing it wrong."

His claims about you "wasting 35 minutes" if you don't BR may have been the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. And I mean that.

If I'm consistently getting no more than -3 wrong on an LR section, I'm not getting "lucky guesses" I know my shit point blank. Same for you & anyone else doing that. You don't get lucky on the LSAT. The test is literally designed with 4 wrong answer choices to entice anyone guessing or who doesn't thoroughly comprehend the question and/or logic. I check the answers because I BR'd my question when I did it. I don't luck up on any answer. If I got it right I know why and I did the logic process to get there or I wouldn't have picked it. You know if you guessed or not. How do you guess logic? The guy who made that video is a moron. I'm sorry but it actually made me mad lol like the audacity of this dickhead


JY, the guy in the video, is a Harvard Law Grad and creator of 7Sage LSAT. He also scored in the 170s on his original LSAT, so I doubt he is a moron.

And that video is a part of the full 7Sage lesson, so when he says "this is the only way....." it seems like hyperbole, but that is because it is out of context and meant to be utilized as part of the entire 7Sage philosophy.

As far as you thinking BR is useless, I don't know how you could be so audacious? You claim that you BR when you did it? OK, that is just a patently absurd statement. Your testing is done under timed conditions; BR is done untimed. When you have the luxury of unlimited time, one can dissect the argument again, and really spend time understanding why the right answer is right, and the wrong answer is wrong. If you are going -3 on LR you are clearly doing well. And one of the reasons you might not be able to get that down to -0 is using too much intuition. Not that it is always a bad thing, but sometimes our intuitions are wrong. Often the LSAT's curve breaker questions can manipulate your intuitions and cause you to miss those 3 questions. BR helps to reinforce the logic behind the questions. It also is great because it truly allows you to see the patterns in the right/wrong answer choices. You mention that you already notice them, but imagine how much more you would learn from studying the test more thoroughly, untimed.

If you BR the questions when you did it, then why aren't you going -0 on every section? Clearly that is a rhetorical question, and further proof your characterization of BR and that you "BR[ing] your questions when you did them" is false. You didn't or you'd have realized that you don't "have your shit point blank" or else you'd be scoring 180s.

Also, lucky guesses happen. Maybe they aren't 100% luck, but there are ones everyone gets right, and in the moment they aren't 100% sure if they are right or not. Granted you may have eliminated most of the wrong answers, you still take a guess sometimes. Or you're just completely wrong and think you're choosing the right answer which is another read why BR is quite helpful.

Another reason why BR'ing is so helpful is because if you take PT/timed section and simply just look up explanations or the answers after you are done, then you are effectively just gambling. That is how JY describes it anyway. His reasoning is that by just going straight to see how many you got wrong you aren't really learning as much as you could. Sure, you can go back and reverse engineer the question after you have the answer, and that may help. But it certainly doesn't re-train you brain as effectively to reasoning correctly the next time you approach a question like that.

Which brings me to my last point, and an often overlooked point/goal of BR'ing--retraining your brain.

When you BR, part of it is retraining your brain. So if you got an answer choice wrong because of faulty reasoning, then you need to block out whatever you did and ensure you do not make the same error. When you go through the stimulus/stem/ACs during BR you should be cognizant of your thought process that finally leads you to the right answer. Or, if you got it correct, you should make sure you understand exactly how you arrived at said correct answer and make sure to reinforce it. As you can see, simply checking your answers won't do this for you.

Lastly, I admit that BR'ing isn't the only way to improve on LR. There is no doubt that if you simply look up the answers after, or use some other similar method you will probably also make improvements. I think the thing about BR'ing is that it seems to just make a lot of sense that it is the more effective way to make improvements. At least for a lot of people.

tl;dr: In carefully reviewing each section with BR, including your best ones, you aim to gain confidence from answering correctly based on our *processes*, not on whether your AC matches the right AC. This is what Blind Review is about.

ETA: Sorry, on my phone and autocorrect always fucks things up.


Everything here is TCR. NotJames-- not only have you not taken a timed last, you're not scoring anywhere near the 170's either. If you want to give advice, fine. But stop refusing to acknowledge other people's thoughts. JY is an LSAT God & you're an unproven student without any impressive credentials.

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brinicolec

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Re: How to improve?

Postby brinicolec » Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:59 am

MyNameIsntJames wrote:
maybeman wrote:
HaveMercy wrote:

I've been BRing on my last two PTs. My question is after you BR and explain why the ACs were right/wrong, do you go to sites like Manhattan Prep or LSAT Hacks and see if your reasoning was correct?



I haven't yet, but if I encountered a question I'm not fully confident my reasoning is sound on post-BR & post-AC check, then I would watch a 7Sage video for an explanation. If you're still confused after BR, definitely find a thorough explanation



lol @ the guy saying "this is the only way to study LR if you're doing it any other way you're doing it wrong."

His claims about you "wasting 35 minutes" if you don't BR may have been the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. And I mean that.

If I'm consistently getting no more than -3 wrong on an LR section, I'm not getting "lucky guesses" I know my shit point blank. Same for you & anyone else doing that. You don't get lucky on the LSAT. The test is literally designed with 4 wrong answer choices to entice anyone guessing or who doesn't thoroughly comprehend the question and/or logic. I check the answers because I BR'd my question when I did it. I don't luck up on any answer. If I got it right I know why and I did the logic process to get there or I wouldn't have picked it. You know if you guessed or not. How do you guess logic? The guy who made that video is a moron. I'm sorry but it actually made me mad lol like the audacity of this dickhead


Another thing (on top of the couple responses above me): Unless you're consistently getting -0 on LR sections, then there's still shit you can learn. And you can definitely guess on logic and get lucky. A lot of main flaws in reasoning become obvious when you can narrow down to two answers but end up choosing the wrong answer and things of that nature.

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mukol

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Re: How to improve?

Postby mukol » Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:08 am

brinicolec wrote: A lot of main flaws in reasoning become obvious when you can narrow down to two answers but end up choosing the wrong answer and things of that nature.


If you're narrowing it down to two answer choices, you're doing it wrong. Based on the stimulus and question, you should know what the answer is (or will sound like) before reading the answer choices.

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brinicolec

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Re: How to improve?

Postby brinicolec » Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:46 am

mukol wrote:
brinicolec wrote: A lot of main flaws in reasoning become obvious when you can narrow down to two answers but end up choosing the wrong answer and things of that nature.


If you're narrowing it down to two answer choices, you're doing it wrong. Based on the stimulus and question, you should know what the answer is (or will sound like) before reading the answer choices.


I think you missed the point I was making.

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Re: How to improve?

Postby MyNameIsntJames » Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:06 am

maybeman wrote:
Barack O'Drama wrote:
MyNameIsntJames wrote:
maybeman wrote:
HaveMercy wrote:

I've been BRing on my last two PTs. My question is after you BR and explain why the ACs were right/wrong, do you go to sites like Manhattan Prep or LSAT Hacks and see if your reasoning was correct?



I haven't yet, but if I encountered a question I'm not fully confident my reasoning is sound on post-BR & post-AC check, then I would watch a 7Sage video for an explanation. If you're still confused after BR, definitely find a thorough explanation



lol @ the guy saying "this is the only way to study LR if you're doing it any other way you're doing it wrong."

His claims about you "wasting 35 minutes" if you don't BR may have been the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. And I mean that.

If I'm consistently getting no more than -3 wrong on an LR section, I'm not getting "lucky guesses" I know my shit point blank. Same for you & anyone else doing that. You don't get lucky on the LSAT. The test is literally designed with 4 wrong answer choices to entice anyone guessing or who doesn't thoroughly comprehend the question and/or logic. I check the answers because I BR'd my question when I did it. I don't luck up on any answer. If I got it right I know why and I did the logic process to get there or I wouldn't have picked it. You know if you guessed or not. How do you guess logic? The guy who made that video is a moron. I'm sorry but it actually made me mad lol like the audacity of this dickhead


JY, the guy in the video, is a Harvard Law Grad and creator of 7Sage LSAT. He also scored in the 170s on his original LSAT, so I doubt he is a moron.

And that video is a part of the full 7Sage lesson, so when he says "this is the only way....." it seems like hyperbole, but that is because it is out of context and meant to be utilized as part of the entire 7Sage philosophy.

As far as you thinking BR is useless, I don't know how you could be so audacious? You claim that you BR when you did it? OK, that is just a patently absurd statement. Your testing is done under timed conditions; BR is done untimed. When you have the luxury of unlimited time, one can dissect the argument again, and really spend time understanding why the right answer is right, and the wrong answer is wrong. If you are going -3 on LR you are clearly doing well. And one of the reasons you might not be able to get that down to -0 is using too much intuition. Not that it is always a bad thing, but sometimes our intuitions are wrong. Often the LSAT's curve breaker questions can manipulate your intuitions and cause you to miss those 3 questions. BR helps to reinforce the logic behind the questions. It also is great because it truly allows you to see the patterns in the right/wrong answer choices. You mention that you already notice them, but imagine how much more you would learn from studying the test more thoroughly, untimed.

If you BR the questions when you did it, then why aren't you going -0 on every section? Clearly that is a rhetorical question, and further proof your characterization of BR and that you "BR[ing] your questions when you did them" is false. You didn't or you'd have realized that you don't "have your shit point blank" or else you'd be scoring 180s.

Also, lucky guesses happen. Maybe they aren't 100% luck, but there are ones everyone gets right, and in the moment they aren't 100% sure if they are right or not. Granted you may have eliminated most of the wrong answers, you still take a guess sometimes. Or you're just completely wrong and think you're choosing the right answer which is another read why BR is quite helpful.

Another reason why BR'ing is so helpful is because if you take PT/timed section and simply just look up explanations or the answers after you are done, then you are effectively just gambling. That is how JY describes it anyway. His reasoning is that by just going straight to see how many you got wrong you aren't really learning as much as you could. Sure, you can go back and reverse engineer the question after you have the answer, and that may help. But it certainly doesn't re-train you brain as effectively to reasoning correctly the next time you approach a question like that.

Which brings me to my last point, and an often overlooked point/goal of BR'ing--retraining your brain.

When you BR, part of it is retraining your brain. So if you got an answer choice wrong because of faulty reasoning, then you need to block out whatever you did and ensure you do not make the same error. When you go through the stimulus/stem/ACs during BR you should be cognizant of your thought process that finally leads you to the right answer. Or, if you got it correct, you should make sure you understand exactly how you arrived at said correct answer and make sure to reinforce it. As you can see, simply checking your answers won't do this for you.

Lastly, I admit that BR'ing isn't the only way to improve on LR. There is no doubt that if you simply look up the answers after, or use some other similar method you will probably also make improvements. I think the thing about BR'ing is that it seems to just make a lot of sense that it is the more effective way to make improvements. At least for a lot of people.

tl;dr: In carefully reviewing each section with BR, including your best ones, you aim to gain confidence from answering correctly based on our *processes*, not on whether your AC matches the right AC. This is what Blind Review is about.

ETA: Sorry, on my phone and autocorrect always fucks things up.


Everything here is TCR. NotJames-- not only have you not taken a timed last, you're not scoring anywhere near the 170's either. If you want to give advice, fine. But stop refusing to acknowledge other people's thoughts. JY is an LSAT God & you're an unproven student without any impressive credentials.



What the fuck are you talking about? I've been PTing in the 170s for the last month. And timed test? I've been studying for the LSAT since I got a 161 in September of 2014. If you do the math I've studied from a 161 for two years. I've probably taken more timed tests than you'll ever even do sections out of. Every time you try to insert commentary on what I have/haven't done you just end up looking like a fucking dumbass on these forums per usual.

And what are your credentials? Because I currently make $50k+ working for a non profit and probably shit on your resume on several levels. There's nothing impressive about your entire life, personality, financial status and potential included. Get the fuck outta here and don't be dumb enough to comment on what I can/can't do on this website again.

Moron.

MyNameIsntJames

Bronze
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:18 pm

Re: How to improve?

Postby MyNameIsntJames » Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:09 am

maybeman wrote:
Barack O'Drama wrote:
MyNameIsntJames wrote:
maybeman wrote:
HaveMercy wrote:

I've been BRing on my last two PTs. My question is after you BR and explain why the ACs were right/wrong, do you go to sites like Manhattan Prep or LSAT Hacks and see if your reasoning was correct?



I haven't yet, but if I encountered a question I'm not fully confident my reasoning is sound on post-BR & post-AC check, then I would watch a 7Sage video for an explanation. If you're still confused after BR, definitely find a thorough explanation



lol @ the guy saying "this is the only way to study LR if you're doing it any other way you're doing it wrong."

His claims about you "wasting 35 minutes" if you don't BR may have been the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. And I mean that.

If I'm consistently getting no more than -3 wrong on an LR section, I'm not getting "lucky guesses" I know my shit point blank. Same for you & anyone else doing that. You don't get lucky on the LSAT. The test is literally designed with 4 wrong answer choices to entice anyone guessing or who doesn't thoroughly comprehend the question and/or logic. I check the answers because I BR'd my question when I did it. I don't luck up on any answer. If I got it right I know why and I did the logic process to get there or I wouldn't have picked it. You know if you guessed or not. How do you guess logic? The guy who made that video is a moron. I'm sorry but it actually made me mad lol like the audacity of this dickhead


JY, the guy in the video, is a Harvard Law Grad and creator of 7Sage LSAT. He also scored in the 170s on his original LSAT, so I doubt he is a moron.

And that video is a part of the full 7Sage lesson, so when he says "this is the only way....." it seems like hyperbole, but that is because it is out of context and meant to be utilized as part of the entire 7Sage philosophy.

As far as you thinking BR is useless, I don't know how you could be so audacious? You claim that you BR when you did it? OK, that is just a patently absurd statement. Your testing is done under timed conditions; BR is done untimed. When you have the luxury of unlimited time, one can dissect the argument again, and really spend time understanding why the right answer is right, and the wrong answer is wrong. If you are going -3 on LR you are clearly doing well. And one of the reasons you might not be able to get that down to -0 is using too much intuition. Not that it is always a bad thing, but sometimes our intuitions are wrong. Often the LSAT's curve breaker questions can manipulate your intuitions and cause you to miss those 3 questions. BR helps to reinforce the logic behind the questions. It also is great because it truly allows you to see the patterns in the right/wrong answer choices. You mention that you already notice them, but imagine how much more you would learn from studying the test more thoroughly, untimed.

If you BR the questions when you did it, then why aren't you going -0 on every section? Clearly that is a rhetorical question, and further proof your characterization of BR and that you "BR[ing] your questions when you did them" is false. You didn't or you'd have realized that you don't "have your shit point blank" or else you'd be scoring 180s.

Also, lucky guesses happen. Maybe they aren't 100% luck, but there are ones everyone gets right, and in the moment they aren't 100% sure if they are right or not. Granted you may have eliminated most of the wrong answers, you still take a guess sometimes. Or you're just completely wrong and think you're choosing the right answer which is another read why BR is quite helpful.

Another reason why BR'ing is so helpful is because if you take PT/timed section and simply just look up explanations or the answers after you are done, then you are effectively just gambling. That is how JY describes it anyway. His reasoning is that by just going straight to see how many you got wrong you aren't really learning as much as you could. Sure, you can go back and reverse engineer the question after you have the answer, and that may help. But it certainly doesn't re-train you brain as effectively to reasoning correctly the next time you approach a question like that.

Which brings me to my last point, and an often overlooked point/goal of BR'ing--retraining your brain.

When you BR, part of it is retraining your brain. So if you got an answer choice wrong because of faulty reasoning, then you need to block out whatever you did and ensure you do not make the same error. When you go through the stimulus/stem/ACs during BR you should be cognizant of your thought process that finally leads you to the right answer. Or, if you got it correct, you should make sure you understand exactly how you arrived at said correct answer and make sure to reinforce it. As you can see, simply checking your answers won't do this for you.

Lastly, I admit that BR'ing isn't the only way to improve on LR. There is no doubt that if you simply look up the answers after, or use some other similar method you will probably also make improvements. I think the thing about BR'ing is that it seems to just make a lot of sense that it is the more effective way to make improvements. At least for a lot of people.

tl;dr: In carefully reviewing each section with BR, including your best ones, you aim to gain confidence from answering correctly based on our *processes*, not on whether your AC matches the right AC. This is what Blind Review is about.

ETA: Sorry, on my phone and autocorrect always fucks things up.


Everything here is TCR. NotJames-- not only have you not taken a timed last, you're not scoring anywhere near the 170's either. If you want to give advice, fine. But stop refusing to acknowledge other people's thoughts. JY is an LSAT God & you're an unproven student without any impressive credentials.



This thread sums up why you'll never crack 170+ or be successful in the legal profession. You're an unambitious follower that would rather blindly follow any and all advice you get from a YouTube channel, rather than constructing your own methodologies for attacking the exam based on the sum of information you've aggregated from multiple prep sources. But that's the difference between you & me. I choose to work hard and be informed and you would rather pursue a more lazy, ignorant yet ironically arrogant route and it has proved you to be a dumbass on these forums time and time again.



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