Don't know if I am retaking the LSAT but should I save PT to study?

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mapatero

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Don't know if I am retaking the LSAT but should I save PT to study?

Postby mapatero » Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:08 pm

Hi everyone!

After stalking a few topics on TLS, I have gotten the impression that retaking the LSAT is highly recommended. I'm currently planning out my study schedule but I know that when it comes to test, my nerves will get the better of me so I'm planning out my study schedule with retaking the LSAT in mind. I'm taking my first LSAT in July 2017 and the retake in October 2017.

My question is this: if I am planning to retake the LSAT (haven't officially started studying for the first one), should I save the most recent PT for studying for the retake or just go through all of the PT when studying for the first LSAT and re use all of the PT for the retake?

I want to do my very best on the first one and no matter what my score is, I still have plans retake. However, in order to do my very best, I believe studying with the most recent PT will be extremely beneficial. But when I go to study for my retake, I'll be out of fresh PT to study with.

Any advice would be helpful and I thank you in advance!

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RamTitan

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Re: Don't know if I am retaking the LSAT but should I save PT to study?

Postby RamTitan » Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:09 pm

You should save like 5-10 fresh tests for PT purposes. You can still learn stuff from retakes, but it's good to have an accurate indicator of how you're doing at times.

Drill 1-40, PT 41-80

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brinicolec

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Re: Don't know if I am retaking the LSAT but should I save PT to study?

Postby brinicolec » Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:56 pm

A couple things:

1) It's not really highly recommended to retake the LSAT just because it's possible. Don't approach the LSAT prep like you're going to retake the LSAT. Based on what was said at a forum I went to recently, adcomms prefer that you DON'T retake it, and they definitely don't want you taking it many times. One dean of admissions said they don't like seeing more than 2 scores, especially if it's a difference that leaves you in the same score band as another score you have anyway. Basically, studying with a plan to retake anyway might end up being counterproductive for reasons I mentioned, and others.

2) But, with that being said, if you do end up having to retake, you'll definitely need to save some PTs. I recommend making copies of PTs instead of writing directly in the PT books if you can. I'm retaking because I think I could study a little harder to raise my score some and ran into the issue of not having a lot of PTs that were annotated on and all that mess so even when I want to look over things, it's hard to look at it with fresh eyes since I have my notes/answers there.

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RamTitan

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Re: Don't know if I am retaking the LSAT but should I save PT to study?

Postby RamTitan » Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:04 pm

brinicolec wrote:
1) It's not really highly recommended to retake the LSAT just because it's possible. Don't approach the LSAT prep like you're going to retake the LSAT. Based on what was said at a forum I went to recently, adcomms prefer that you DON'T retake it, and they definitely don't want you taking it many times. One dean of admissions said they don't like seeing more than 2 scores, especially if it's a difference that leaves you in the same score band as another score you have anyway. Basically, studying with a plan to retake anyway might end up being counterproductive for reasons I mentioned, and others.

How new to this are you?

Edit for clarification - higher LSAT always wins. Don't tap out if you have more in the tank. And not saying OP should plan on retaking, but there's almost zero (perhaps zero) harm in a retake.

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brinicolec

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Re: Don't know if I am retaking the LSAT but should I save PT to study?

Postby brinicolec » Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:14 am

RamTitan wrote:
brinicolec wrote:
1) It's not really highly recommended to retake the LSAT just because it's possible. Don't approach the LSAT prep like you're going to retake the LSAT. Based on what was said at a forum I went to recently, adcomms prefer that you DON'T retake it, and they definitely don't want you taking it many times. One dean of admissions said they don't like seeing more than 2 scores, especially if it's a difference that leaves you in the same score band as another score you have anyway. Basically, studying with a plan to retake anyway might end up being counterproductive for reasons I mentioned, and others.

How new to this are you?

Edit for clarification - higher LSAT always wins. Don't tap out if you have more in the tank. And not saying OP should plan on retaking, but there's almost zero (perhaps zero) harm in a retake.


I said "Studying with a plan to retake anyway might end up being counterproductive," not "NEVER RETAKE THE LSAT." I shared what I was told by the people who read our applications, which is that they don't like seeing people that just keep taking the LSAT because they can and because they want a 172 instead of a 171 or something like that. Basically, I was saying be smart in your decision to retake/don't make that decision before you even take the test the first time around.

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Barack O'Drama

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Re: Don't know if I am retaking the LSAT but should I save PT to study?

Postby Barack O'Drama » Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:30 am

From what I have read about Adcomms, one great test is the best scenario. But, there is no question if you are confident you can raise your score by 3-5 points, absolutely retake.

Anyways, OP, you should consider setting aside some practice tests should you need them for a retake. I admire your prudence, and have started to think of this same issue.

I am thinking of saving a few tests in the late 40s, and a couple in the late 70s. So I'll probably use up to 77 or something. Haven't full decided yet, but I do think it is a good idea to save something. This way under the event you need a retake, you have something to gauge your progress.
Last edited by Barack O'Drama on Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RamTitan

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Re: Don't know if I am retaking the LSAT but should I save PT to study?

Postby RamTitan » Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:36 am

I feel like this site churns out different advice all the time....nature of a message board I guess. I scored a 169 and was told that retaking and even improving my score by 1 point would hep me tremendously.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Don't know if I am retaking the LSAT but should I save PT to study?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:20 pm

I think the problem is that what adcomms say they want to see and what they look at when they're trying to put together a class and keep strong medians may not necessarily be the same thing.

And I think a 1 point improvement matters more or less depending on where it falls in relation to a school's median (if you're already above it's going to matter much less than if it puts your score above, for instance).

Though I agree that going in expecting to retake is counterproductive.

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RamTitan

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Re: Don't know if I am retaking the LSAT but should I save PT to study?

Postby RamTitan » Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:41 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I think the problem is that what adcomms say they want to see and what they look at when they're trying to put together a class and keep strong medians may not necessarily be the same thing.

And I think a 1 point improvement matters more or less depending on where it falls in relation to a school's median (if you're already above it's going to matter much less than if it puts your score above, for instance).

Though I agree that going in expecting to retake is counterproductive.

That sounds pretty sound. You would have to take GPA into account though, correct?

For example:

School A has a GPA range of 3.6 to 3.8 and an LSAT range of 166 to 170, with a median of 169. Candidate B has a 3.6 GPA and a 169 LSAT score. Since candidate B is not above the median, a 1 or 2 point increase would put them in a much better situation, correct?

mapatero

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Re: Don't know if I am retaking the LSAT but should I save PT to study?

Postby mapatero » Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:23 pm

brinicolec wrote:
RamTitan wrote:
brinicolec wrote:
1) It's not really highly recommended to retake the LSAT just because it's possible. Don't approach the LSAT prep like you're going to retake the LSAT. Based on what was said at a forum I went to recently, adcomms prefer that you DON'T retake it, and they definitely don't want you taking it many times. One dean of admissions said they don't like seeing more than 2 scores, especially if it's a difference that leaves you in the same score band as another score you have anyway. Basically, studying with a plan to retake anyway might end up being counterproductive for reasons I mentioned, and others.

How new to this are you?

Edit for clarification - higher LSAT always wins. Don't tap out if you have more in the tank. And not saying OP should plan on retaking, but there's almost zero (perhaps zero) harm in a retake.


I said "Studying with a plan to retake anyway might end up being counterproductive," not "NEVER RETAKE THE LSAT." I shared what I was told by the people who read our applications, which is that they don't like seeing people that just keep taking the LSAT because they can and because they want a 172 instead of a 171 or something like that. Basically, I was saying be smart in your decision to retake/don't make that decision before you even take the test the first time around.


Thanks for the advice guys!

I definitely won't go into my first LSAT with the desire to retake - I'll go in with the mindset of trying to take it once and only once. However, looking at my past record, I know preparing for a retake will definitely increase my chances for a score increase. :oops:
Last edited by mapatero on Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mapatero

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Re: Don't know if I am retaking the LSAT but should I save PT to study?

Postby mapatero » Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:28 pm

Barack O'Drama wrote:From what I have read about Adcomms, one great test is the best scenario. But, there is no question if you are confident you can raise your score by 3-5 points, absolutely retake.

Anyways, OP, you should consider setting aside some practice tests should you need them for a retake. I admire your prudence, and have started to think of this same issue.

I am thinking of saving a few tests in the late 40s, and a couple in the late 70s. So I'll probably use up to 77 or something. Haven't full decided yet, but I do think it is a good idea to save something. This way under the event you need a retake, you have something to gauge your progress.



Thanks for the advice Barack O'Drama!! I'll definitely take your advice and only use up to PT #77 to study - that way I have 3 fresh new ones to use for my second LSAT and I won't be inhibiting my studying for my first LSAT by not using the most recent PT.

When you decide which PT to save in the late 40s, let me know! I'm not too familiar with the past PT or the format/trend of the PT over the years so I'm clueless on why you decided to save a few PT in late 40s as opposed to others.

mapatero

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Re: Don't know if I am retaking the LSAT but should I save PT to study?

Postby mapatero » Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:33 pm

RamTitan wrote:You should save like 5-10 fresh tests for PT purposes. You can still learn stuff from retakes, but it's good to have an accurate indicator of how you're doing at times.

Drill 1-40, PT 41-80


Thanks a ton for your advice and responses RamTitan! If I were to save 5-10 PT for my second LSAT, do you have any recommendations? I'm guessing it would be PT after #41 since I would be using the older ones to drill.

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Barack O'Drama

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Re: Don't know if I am retaking the LSAT but should I save PT to study?

Postby Barack O'Drama » Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:45 pm

mapatero wrote:
Barack O'Drama wrote:From what I have read about Adcomms, one great test is the best scenario. But, there is no question if you are confident you can raise your score by 3-5 points, absolutely retake.

Anyways, OP, you should consider setting aside some practice tests should you need them for a retake. I admire your prudence, and have started to think of this same issue.

I am thinking of saving a few tests in the late 40s, and a couple in the late 70s. So I'll probably use up to 77 or something. Haven't full decided yet, but I do think it is a good idea to save something. This way under the event you need a retake, you have something to gauge your progress.



Thanks for the advice Barack O'Drama!! I'll definitely take your advice and only use up to PT #77 to study - that way I have 3 fresh new ones to use for my second LSAT and I won't be inhibiting my studying for my first LSAT by not using the most recent PT.

When you decide which PT to save in the late 40s, let me know! I'm not too familiar with the past PT or the format/trend of the PT over the years so I'm clueless on why you decided to save a few PT in late 40s as opposed to others.


No problem! Glad I could be of some help :)

I will certainly let you know. As of now, at least tentatively, I plan to save from 46-49. And 77-whatever is out by then. That will give me at least 6 fresh tests. Also, never underestimate the power of redoing tests! However, I suppose for purposes of a retake it is good to have an accurate barometer of your improvements.
Last edited by Barack O'Drama on Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Barack O'Drama

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Re: Don't know if I am retaking the LSAT but should I save PT to study?

Postby Barack O'Drama » Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:46 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I think the problem is that what adcomms say they want to see and what they look at when they're trying to put together a class and keep strong medians may not necessarily be the same thing.

And I think a 1 point improvement matters more or less depending on where it falls in relation to a school's median (if you're already above it's going to matter much less than if it puts your score above, for instance).

Though I agree that going in expecting to retake is counterproductive.


Also, I completely I agree with Nony. As I basically always do 8)
Last edited by Barack O'Drama on Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pittsburghpirates

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Re: Don't know if I am retaking the LSAT but should I save PT to study?

Postby pittsburghpirates » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:19 am

RamTitan wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I think the problem is that what adcomms say they want to see and what they look at when they're trying to put together a class and keep strong medians may not necessarily be the same thing.

And I think a 1 point improvement matters more or less depending on where it falls in relation to a school's median (if you're already above it's going to matter much less than if it puts your score above, for instance).

Though I agree that going in expecting to retake is counterproductive.

That sounds pretty sound. You would have to take GPA into account though, correct?

For example:

School A has a GPA range of 3.6 to 3.8 and an LSAT range of 166 to 170, with a median of 169. Candidate B has a 3.6 GPA and a 169 LSAT score. Since candidate B is not above the median, a 1 or 2 point increase would put them in a much better situation, correct?


Agree 100% with Nony. 1 or 2 points that take you from below median to above will have a bigger effect on your chances than an extra 1 or 2 points when one is already above the 75th. While adcomms may say that they prefer to only see 1 or maybe 2 takes (and i definitely believe that they would prefer this), the data we have from LSN and other sources (MS9, etc) seems to bear out that the high score is what matters regardless of multiple takes. And this makes sense because this is the only score that gets reported to the ABA.

Ram, based on this hypothetical situation I think the 1 or 2 points would make a big difference. Would take you from below median GPA and median LSAT to at or above the 75th LSAT. This is a big reason why you've gotten a lot of retake sentiment because you're only 2 points away from being above the 75th at pretty much every T14 (which i think was your goal correct?).

Don't sit for the exam until you are ready OP. While saving a few PTs is smart in case you need to retake, if you are not where you want to be then don't hesitate to use them.

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RamTitan

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Re: Don't know if I am retaking the LSAT but should I save PT to study?

Postby RamTitan » Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:49 pm

pittsburghpirates wrote:
RamTitan wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I think the problem is that what adcomms say they want to see and what they look at when they're trying to put together a class and keep strong medians may not necessarily be the same thing.

And I think a 1 point improvement matters more or less depending on where it falls in relation to a school's median (if you're already above it's going to matter much less than if it puts your score above, for instance).

Though I agree that going in expecting to retake is counterproductive.

That sounds pretty sound. You would have to take GPA into account though, correct?

For example:

School A has a GPA range of 3.6 to 3.8 and an LSAT range of 166 to 170, with a median of 169. Candidate B has a 3.6 GPA and a 169 LSAT score. Since candidate B is not above the median, a 1 or 2 point increase would put them in a much better situation, correct?


Ram, based on this hypothetical situation I think the 1 or 2 points would make a big difference. Would take you from below median GPA and median LSAT to at or above the 75th LSAT. This is a big reason why you've gotten a lot of retake sentiment because you're only 2 points away from being above the 75th at pretty much every T14 (which i think was your goal correct?).


Dope; that's what I thought. You've always got good advice man



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