## PT 16 Section 3 Question 8

Prepare for the LSAT or discuss it with others in this forum.
ngogirl12

Posts: 803
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:05 am

### PT 16 Section 3 Question 8

I diagrammed the stimulus like this:

RP --> ASW (first sentence)
RP --> AWS (second sentence)
---------------------------------------------------------
P --> RP (conclusion)

So I went into this thinking I needed to link progress and unreasonable people.

What confused me was the last sentence, which I assumed was the conclusion. I was not sure if progress or unreasonable people was the necessary condition. Then I thought if I substituted "depends on" with "requires" it would make unreasonable people the necessary condition, still I was not confidant my approach was correct. (Is this the correct way to diagram the sentence?)

I think A is irrelevant and D is wrong because we are not concerned with the subset that are unable to bring progress. Can someone help me understand why the others are wrong and why B is correct? Is my reasoning/approach to this question wrong?

Blueprint Mithun

Posts: 456
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:54 pm

### Re: PT 16 Section 3 Question 8

ngogirl12 wrote:I diagrammed the stimulus like this:

RP --> ASW (first sentence)
RP --> AWS (second sentence)
---------------------------------------------------------
P --> RP (conclusion)

So I went into this thinking I needed to link progress and unreasonable people.

What confused me was the last sentence, which I assumed was the conclusion. I was not sure if progress or unreasonable people was the necessary condition. Then I thought if I substituted "depends on" with "requires" it would make unreasonable people the necessary condition, still I was not confidant my approach was correct. (Is this the correct way to diagram the sentence?)

I think A is irrelevant and D is wrong because we are not concerned with the subset that are unable to bring progress. Can someone help me understand why the others are wrong and why B is correct? Is my reasoning/approach to this question wrong?

Hey! So you did a bunch of things right. Your diagrams look good other than the fact that you used the same abbreviation for reasonable and unreasonable people (was that a typo?). The conclusion is indeed P --> URP, you were correct in substituting 'depends on' for 'requires'.

A is indeed irrelevant and D is impossible to prove. C is a reversal of the conclusion - progress depends on unreasonable people, but unreasonable people are not sufficient for guaranteeing progress. E is also irrelevant.

B says that if there are only reasonable people, there cannot be progress. Here's the tricky part: "there are only reasonable people" is another way of saying there are NO unreasonable people, so we can diagram this statement as -URP --> -P. This is the contrapositive of our conclusion, so it has to be true.

ngogirl12

Posts: 803
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:05 am

### Re: PT 16 Section 3 Question 8

Blueprint Mithun wrote:
ngogirl12 wrote:I diagrammed the stimulus like this:

RP --> ASW (first sentence)
RP --> AWS (second sentence)
---------------------------------------------------------
P --> RP (conclusion)

So I went into this thinking I needed to link progress and unreasonable people.

What confused me was the last sentence, which I assumed was the conclusion. I was not sure if progress or unreasonable people was the necessary condition. Then I thought if I substituted "depends on" with "requires" it would make unreasonable people the necessary condition, still I was not confidant my approach was correct. (Is this the correct way to diagram the sentence?)

I think A is irrelevant and D is wrong because we are not concerned with the subset that are unable to bring progress. Can someone help me understand why the others are wrong and why B is correct? Is my reasoning/approach to this question wrong?

Hey! So you did a bunch of things right. Your diagrams look good other than the fact that you used the same abbreviation for reasonable and unreasonable people (was that a typo?). The conclusion is indeed P --> URP, you were correct in substituting 'depends on' for 'requires'.

A is indeed irrelevant and D is impossible to prove. C is a reversal of the conclusion - progress depends on unreasonable people, but unreasonable people are not sufficient for guaranteeing progress. E is also irrelevant.

B says that if there are only reasonable people, there cannot be progress. Here's the tricky part: "there are only reasonable people" is another way of saying there are NO unreasonable people, so we can diagram this statement as -URP --> -P. This is the contrapositive of our conclusion, so it has to be true.

Thank you for your response! Yes, it was a typo I had written it as -RP (for not reasonable people). I have two questions, is my reasoning for D correct that we are not concerned about the people who are unable to bring progress? In your response you say it is impossible to prove, can you explain why it is impossible? Also, is E irrelevant because of "more persistent" being a degree issue? We don't know who is more persistent based on the information we are given in the stimulus?

Thank you so much for your help and I look forward to your response!

Blueprint Mithun

Posts: 456
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:54 pm

### Re: PT 16 Section 3 Question 8

ngogirl12 wrote:
Thank you for your response! Yes, it was a typo I had written it as -RP (for not reasonable people). I have two questions, is my reasoning for D correct that we are not concerned about the people who are unable to bring progress? In your response you say it is impossible to prove, can you explain why it is impossible? Also, is E irrelevant because of "more persistent" being a degree issue? We don't know who is more persistent based on the information we are given in the stimulus?

Thank you so much for your help and I look forward to your response!

Regarding D, we know that unreasonable people are required for progress, but that's not the same as saying unreasonable people bring about progress. The latter sounds more like it's describing unreasonable people as being sufficient for creating progress, or perhaps even a causal relationship. Either way, we don't know if unreasonable people bring about progress at all, so we certainly can't conclude that some are unable to do so.

You're right about E. We have no idea which group is more persistent - all we know is that unreasonable people persist in adapting the world to themselves. In fact, the use of the verb 'persist' in the stimulus doesn't really relate to 'persistence' the adjective at all. So that's why I called it irrelevant - it's one of those answers with which they hope to snag you with one related word. With some analysis it becomes clear that the answer is very flimsy.

Burt Macklin

Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:40 pm

### Re: PT 16 Section 3 Question 8

Here is my go at this answer choice, maybe it helps?

PT 16.3.8

This is a must be true question. Only one answer, based on the information provided in the stimulus MUST BE TRUE. All others COULD BE FALSE.

R -> ASTW
U -> AWTS
---------
P -> U

A) The stimulus does not provide any information about reasonable and unreasonable people being incompatible, so this definitely could be false. Eliminate answer choice.

B) R -> /P (Reasonable is not unreasonable or /U) this is the logical opposite / contrapositive of P -> U, seems like a right answer. Keep for now. Move to other answers.

C) U -> P, this is not the same logical statement as the conclusion drawn above. Eliminate answer choice. Move to other answers.

D) This is definitely possible, but U <-some-> /P is not what we are looking for. Eliminate answer choice. Move to other answers.