Is 170 possible by December??? Please advise Forum

GreekOmega12 · Post by **GreekOmega12** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:45 pm

My last 3 PT's which I have taken in the past 4 days.

1. Is a 170 achievable by December, assuming my LG score was an outliner as I go -1/2 on average, is it realistic?

2. I believe I have a fatigue problem. How do you all address fatigue? Is there a strategy I can implement or do I just need repetition?

Please help!

PT 73
RC - 5 (Best ever)
LR - 3
LG - 3
LR - 10 (Fatigue??????)
- 21 Raw 80 Scaled 164

PT 60
LG (Extra Section PT 49) - 2
LR - 5 (All 5 were the questions where I was stuck between 2 answer choices, so I take this as a somewhat win.)
LG - 4 (Read one of the rules on the last game wrong, when I realized it was too late and I had to scrap the game and then go guess on the last 5 questions. All 4 incorrects were from my guesses on that one game. So somewhat of a win.)
LR - 6 (Fatigue maybe?)
RC - 7 (All 7 wrong came in the last two passages so definitely attributing it to fatigue.)
- 22 Raw 77 Scaled 163

PT 74
LR - 6 (Once again 4 out of the 6 were where I was stuck between 2 choices.)
LG - 5 (Have not done this bad in a while, misread rule on game 3 had to backtrack and ran out of time on game 4.)
RC - 7 (Got the last 4 questions of passage 4 wrong.)
LR - 4
-22 Raw 79 Scaled 163

GreekOmega12 · Post by **GreekOmega12** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:15 pm

Any tips, suggestions, or advice?

somethingElse · Post by **somethingElse** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:11 pm

Post removed...

GreekOmega12 · Post by **GreekOmega12** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:23 pm

somethingelse55 wrote:I think yes a 170 is possible by December as long as you continue to study hard. However, I'm not sure if you're aware, but on the real test there will be a 5th section, an experimental. You won't know which section it is, either. So with this in mind IMO you should make your PTs 5 sections as well. You can do this by taking a PT and using each of its four sections as experimentals for other PTs. Then, once you use up all 4, you'll have another PT score. This will also help you stay motivated for the experimental, as during these 5 section PTs you WILL know which the experimental is (but again, on the real test you won't and so its important to stay fully focused for all 5 sections).

Since you believe you have a fatigue problem, as well, I might even suggest that you make your PTs 6 sections, at least until you believe the problem is alleviated. The reasoning behind this is that once you're used to 6 section tests, the 5 section tests will be relatively easier and won't seem as long.

Repetition will certainly also help with fatigue, so I suppose at the end of the day, if I were you, I would step them up to 5 sections only for now. See how that goes for a couple weeks, and if by the second week of November you aren't any better in that regard, step it up to 6 for the next two weeks. Then the final week before the test bring it back down to 5 (to help prevent burn out).

Also, if you aren't already, Blind Review your PTs. That will help quite a bit.

Thanks for the reply kind sir! I have been doing 5 section PTs but not consistently. I will work on that and eventually push to 6.

What exactly is Blind Review and how do I do it?

cbbinnyc · Post by **cbbinnyc** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:26 pm

As far as fatigue goes, you should definitely be doing 5-section tests, as somethingelse55 noted. I would even recommend doing 6 section tests and, if you really want to go crazy, 8 section tests. Build up your tolerance so that on test day it feels like a breeze.

What have you done from prep other than PTs? Have you looked at PowerScore books? If not, get those, take a break from doing PT's, and put your focus on technique for a while. If you've already worked through some books, work through them again, or buy books by another company. I used both Manhattan Prep and PowerScore and I found that both had valid points; I felt like I benefited by getting slightly different perspectives.

As to your question, is 170 possible? Yes. Is it going to be easy? No. But keep in mind that "how" you study is more important than "how much" you study. Doing a ton of practice tests will only help if you're constantly tweaking your technique.

PrayFor170 · Post by **PrayFor170** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:50 pm

I haven't taken the real test yet, so the test techniques is not up to me to say.

But about the fatigue, I don't know how long you've been studying but I remember when I took the cold diagnostic, I came out with a 153 and felt my body aching all over and totally dizzy. My body ached for the next day too. Then I spent one month doing LR by type, and then start to do the first few PTs four section, and then I add an experimental section. For the first week it was really tired and exhausted, but you need to hold on, and until your exhaustion reached the climax, it will go down, and stamina will build up. Now this is the 3rd month of my prep, and I start doing 8-section now. I've been following this schedule for two weeks and now 8 sections feel like breeze (heavy breeze, maybe).

And if you have distraction problem, try using 7sage proctor and turn the "distraction" to the upper limit. Try a few times and you'll find classroom setting extremely quiet.

flawedargument · Post by **flawedargument** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:56 pm

Once you are drilling full PTs, finishing the sections on time or with time to spare, and scoring in the 160s, it's difficult to improve your average score more than 1 point per week. So the honest answer to your question is that it is very unlikely. The less room for improvement there is, the harder it is to improve. The mid-160s to low-170s grind is, I think, the hardest part.

That said, you will probably get the most "bang for your buck" prioritizing your studying like this: Games, LR, then RC. Games is the most learnable section for the average test taker. You'll increase your score more per hour studying games than anything else. Once you can consistently score -2 or better on games, switch to LR. Figure out which question types you miss the most and drill those. Review your answers without scoring. This will reveal whether you are making dumb mistakes or real logical reasoning errors, and -- if you review carefully -- what errors you are making.

I don't expect you'll have time to really delve into RC before December. Practice it, of course, but don't put many of your eggs in that basket -- improvement is slowest there for most people.

Nothing I've said should foreclose taking full tests or studying all of the sections at once. This is just how I would prioritize if I were you.

Hope this helps.

footballlax55 · Post by **footballlax55** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:09 pm

cbbinnyc wrote:As far as fatigue goes, you should definitely be doing 5-section tests, as somethingelse55 noted. I would even recommend doing 6 section tests and, if you really want to go crazy, 8 section tests. Build up your tolerance so that on test day it feels like a breeze.

What have you done from prep other than PTs? Have you looked at PowerScore books? If not, get those, take a break from doing PT's, and put your focus on technique for a while. If you've already worked through some books, work through them again, or buy books by another company. I used both Manhattan Prep and PowerScore and I found that both had valid points; I felt like I benefited by getting slightly different perspectives.

As to your question, is 170 possible? Yes. Is it going to be easy? No. But keep in mind that "how" you study is more important than "how much" you study. Doing a ton of practice tests will only help if you're constantly tweaking your technique.

IMHO, 8 sections would be ridiculous and counter-productive. it would eat through possible practice tests, take up time that could be better spent reviewing or taking other practice tests, and would increase over all stress.
It would be much better to just do 5 section tests and work on remaining alert and focused. He would actually be paying attention to the questions now and thinking analytically instead of being exhausted by the 8th section, making stupid mistakes, and guessing when he's frustrated and tired.

OP, 5 section tests would be best. Mayyybe 6 sections if you ease into them.

Also, 170 might be possible, but it will be tough. Getting your LG down to -1 or -2 would bostt your scores from 163/4 to 165/6. Then you'll still need to glean a few more points.

I personally averaged 166-170 5ish weeks out from test day (where you are now) and then 170/171ish a week or two before, but only scored 169. So in 5 weeks I basically only gained a couple points (although I think I might have gotten unlucky on test day).

On the other hand, I know some people who jumped 5-10 points from their scores they got 5 weeks out.

Best of luck

koval · Post by **koval** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:26 pm

Honestly, I don't think that 170 is possible by December. You're more or less a month away and you're looking to get 7 points higher. That's a very unusual scenario. Also consider that most people (from what I've seen) do worse on the actual test than in PTs. So if you're testing around 164 you'd likely need to be around 171 or so to be competitive to pull out a 170 on the actual test. That was also my personal experience. My last to PTs before the LSAT were 175 and 173 (ended up with a 172 on the real thing).

But, here's what my advice would be. Check out the LSAT Trainer. It was the best book I used and I used them all. Stop worrying about fatigue as much. There's no way you're going to avoid fatigue on the real thing. The real thing is totally different that a PT. I PT'd with 5 section PTs and I felt fine (although by the end your brain is pretty tired).

Good luck dude.

SirArthurDayne · Post by **SirArthurDayne** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:40 pm

Post removed.

sd1111 · Post by **sd1111** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:00 am

GreekOmega12 wrote:My last 3 PT's which I have taken in the past 4 days.

1. Is a 170 achievable by December, assuming my LG score was an outliner as I go -1/2 on average, is it realistic?

2. I believe I have a fatigue problem. How do you all address fatigue? Is there a strategy I can implement or do I just need repetition?

Please help!

PT 73
RC - 5 (Best ever)
LR - 3
LG - 3
LR - 10 (Fatigue??????)
- 21 Raw 80 Scaled 164

PT 60
LG (Extra Section PT 49) - 2
LR - 5 (All 5 were the questions where I was stuck between 2 answer choices, so I take this as a somewhat win.)
LG - 4 (Read one of the rules on the last game wrong, when I realized it was too late and I had to scrap the game and then go guess on the last 5 questions. All 4 incorrects were from my guesses on that one game. So somewhat of a win.)
LR - 6 (Fatigue maybe?)
RC - 7 (All 7 wrong came in the last two passages so definitely attributing it to fatigue.)
- 22 Raw 77 Scaled 163

PT 74
LR - 6 (Once again 4 out of the 6 were where I was stuck between 2 choices.)
LG - 5 (Have not done this bad in a while, misread rule on game 3 had to backtrack and ran out of time on game 4.)
RC - 7 (Got the last 4 questions of passage 4 wrong.)
LR - 4
-22 Raw 79 Scaled 163

Yeah, I think it is totally possible to score 170 in Dec. Have you noticed that? You constantly missed aoud -5 questions in LG. Fix it! LG is the easist part to improve. Do the LG bytpe multiple times and you are assured to at most lost 1 question sitting in the real exam.

Your RC is OK and I think your problem with RC is timing and pace.

LR should be improved-again, by type is a good way to fix the problem.

Say, your LG improved to -1(which is highly possible as long as you practice a lot), your score would be around 166. And your LR which seems the weakest part of your LSAT, could definitely be improved to -6 in total, which means you could score at 3-5 points higher. Then you are in the low 170. RC is OK and you could also probable improve 1-2 points as long as your timing is going well. Your RC ability is good, this is a crutial foundation for LR. You should be confident you are heading your goal.

Best of luck