LR: Stimulus or Stem First? Forum

RamTitan · Post by **RamTitan** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:27 pm

I'm sure this topic has been posted already, but please bear with me.

I've been reading in the PowerScore bible to read the stimulus first, as that will help you determine what kind of question will be asked. However, I hate this approach; I find that knowing what to look for before attacking the stimulus is the natural way of approaching a problem. Do I just need to practice the stim-first approach more in order for me to appreciate it, or should I stick with what I know I like?

Btw, I'm missing on average 6 questions per section, and want to be scoring perfect (of course).

urbanist11 · Post by **urbanist11** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:31 pm

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giantswan · Post by **giantswan** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:12 pm

Personally I think stimulus first is the way to go. I think reading the stem first wastes time because you are probably going to end up reading it again at the end anyway. Also I think if you read the stem first it impacts the way you read the stimulus - some people may say that's the whole point but I think that can actually be detrimental. I feel like you miss a lot less when you read the stimulus first and are analyzing it as you go without knowing what will be asked.

Based on that, I'd say it might be worth trying to practice the stimulus first approach a bit and see if you find it useful with some practice. But also if stem first is giving you better results and you don't have the time to experiment with another method than maybe stick with it. Obviously it's better to do what you know and like rather than something that is highly recommended but not working for you - that being said, there is usually a good reason certain strategies are highly recommended and sometimes it takes a little adjusting before you get the full benefit.

Good Guy Gaud · Post by **Good Guy Gaud** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:21 pm

Experiment with both and go with whatever works best for you.

PatriotP74 · Post by **PatriotP74** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:13 pm

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pittsburghpirates · Post by **pittsburghpirates** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:45 pm

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RamTitan · Post by **RamTitan** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:24 pm

pittsburghpirates wrote:I'm also as stimulus first guy, but there really is no wrong way to do this. Both methods can work, and personally I'd stick with what you are most comfortable with. Is there any pattern to the types of questions you are missing?

Out of an average of 12 missed questions (both LR sections) typically half of them are assumption and flaw in the reasoning questions. I also have difficulty with parallel reasoning.

I'm nowhere close to being a top scorer (159 on my most recent practice test), so I'm willing to experiment with reading the stimulus first.

On an unrelated note, with this kind of score, should I stop taking practice tests and focus on fundamentals instead? I'm planning on taking the test whenever I can consistently score 170, so time-frame is not an issue.

lymenheimer · Post by **lymenheimer** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:07 pm

There have been multiple posts about this so I would suggest taking the time to search through, as many people have great advice on th subject and have already posted it. I too read the stimulus first. If you can't read the stimulus and see that there is a flaw in it, when the question asks about a flaw, then it is likely you will get the question wrong anyways or will take a while going through the answer choices to find TCR. If you read the stem, then you will narrow your focus and can miss a key word in the stimulus. Whereas, once you get familiar with the test questions, you can read the stimulus with understanding, and start to predict the type of question that will be asked as well as what the answer will look like.

Manhattan Prep Matt · Post by **Manhattan Prep Matt** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:51 am

Whereas, once you get familiar with the test questions, you can read the stimulus with understanding, and start to predict the type of question that will be asked as well as what the answer will look like.

But why predict - which will necessarily be less accurate - when you can know - by reading the prompt first? It takes all of 2 seconds to ID the question, and if you take another second to tag it using a shorthand you develop, you won't have to re-read.

lymenheimer wrote: If you can't read the stimulus and see that there is a flaw in it, when the question asks about a flaw, then it is likely you will get the question wrong anyways or will take a while going through the answer choices to find TCR.

But there isn't always a flaw in it, and if you spend time looking for something that isn't there, that's wasted time. Heck, there isn't always an argument. For me, anything you can do to free up your working memory for the actual task is going to be helpful. If you're reading with an eye towards predicting what the question type is, then you're not spending that processing power actually addressing the question.

If you read the stem, then you will narrow your focus and can miss a key word in the stimulus.

How so? Knowing the question type doesn't change what words are important. All it does is tell you:
1) Will there be an argument?
2) Will there be a flaw?
3) If there's a flaw, what flaw is it likely to be?

Not to say you're wrong! Just providing the rebuttal, as I feel that, for almost everyone, reading the question stem first is significantly better than reading the stimulus first. But, as others have stated, that's not universal, and you should try both out.

lymenheimer · Post by **lymenheimer** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:08 pm

Manhattan Prep Matt wrote:
But why predict - which will necessarily be less accurate - when you can know - by reading the prompt first? It takes all of 2 seconds to ID the question, and if you take another second to tag it using a shorthand you develop, you won't have to re-read.

I didn't mean "predict" as in "deliberate". But as you become familiar with the test, you become familiar with which types of questions go with which types of stimuli. I'm not saying you should go in guessing what question you'll get based off of the stimulus. I am indicating that knowing the question isn't a 100% good reason to read the question stem first, due to the fact that it can often be predicted by the stimulus.

Manhattan Prep Matt wrote:But there isn't always a flaw in it, and if you spend time looking for something that isn't there, that's wasted time. Heck, there isn't always an argument. For me, anything you can do to free up your working memory for the actual task is going to be helpful. If you're reading with an eye towards predicting what the question type is, then you're not spending that processing power actually addressing the question.

This is also a misconstrual of my statements. And I get that I probably didn't explain very well, but I figured simplicity was better than complexity when it came to reasoning behind this (also since I was suggesting to search through the threads for these topics which have been posted numerous times before). I wasn't meaning that there is a flaw 100% of the time. I was trying to express an instance where the question stem may ask for a flaw, but if you didn't find the flaw in the stimulus anyways, then time could be wasted or you might not understand the content in general. I wasn't saying that you should deliberately look for a flaw in every question. Again, my intention was not to read with the intent of predicting the question. But as you get familiar with the test, you can begin to do so which makes your speed faster with the baseline speed being that you have to read the question stem anyways. If you can't predict the question that's fine. And if you incorrectly guess what it is, that's fine too. I've done it and it hasn't slowed me down or messed me up. But when I do see a pattern which results in me guessing the stem correctly, it increases my speed.

Manhattan Prep Matt wrote:How so? Knowing the question type doesn't change what words are important. All it does is tell you:
1) Will there be an argument?
2) Will there be a flaw?
3) If there's a flaw, what flaw is it likely to be?

If you can't multitask and be able to mentally predict a question stem, be aware of the presence of a flaw, and still get the answer correct, then you probably can't focus on more than the answer to the question. There are many elements of a stimulus that can be missed when you first read the question. If you lock your brain into finding the answer, then it is easier to miss those key words even if they are still important, rather than having a whole understanding of the stimulus and being able to answer any style question. This is where I find your comments are more appropriate regarding working memory. With the question taking up space in your brain before an understanding of the stimulus, there is less room to move around the pieces of the stimulus.

Manhattan Prep Matt wrote:Not to say you're wrong! Just providing the rebuttal, as I feel that, for almost everyone, reading the question stem first is significantly better than reading the stimulus first. But, as others have stated, that's not universal, and you should try both out.

I do appreciate your comments and making me hash out my explanations, but if this adult person can't figure out what's best for him at this point, then he will need more than just a deeper explanation about the minutiae regarding my statements, and you can provide your services and coach him all you want in whatever way you want. But I find your comments shallow and pedantic for my basic response to a basic question that could have been googled or even TLS Forum searched.