## What's generally the difference between high and low Diag test takers?

Prepare for the LSAT or discuss it with others in this forum.
Broncos15

Posts: 290
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:25 am

### What's generally the difference between high and low Diag test takers?

Interested in getting some food for thought on this one.

I've seen many people score in the upper 150's and even 160's on cold diags...while others (like me) started poorly

Is it the undergrad courses taken that make a difference? Amount of reading/type of reading one does? or is it more so natural abilities?....I had an awful diag February 2014 ( 145) , but plan on graduating with honors in December so the diag clearly wasn't reflective of my abilities

Logic Games probably is the big wild card here as many people have never seen anything similar to it on a test ( I got only 5 right my first try)......Since it comes to slightly less than 25% of the total score its hard to get in the upper 150's without scoring somewhat decently in LG ( or crushing it on the other sections)

PoCaha

Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:54 am

### Re: What's generally the difference between high and low Diag test takers?

I'll chime in.

I'm a Phil major. Took formal logic. One of the things I had to do in that course was visualize 3D objects being moved around. So I'd get questions like: Here are the logical premises P1-Pn. Where is the square located on the tile board? In that sense, Logic Games were taught. My Diagnostic on LG was 22/24 questions correct. So were the conditionals of paragraphs like "If... then..." and "If and only if" or "Neither.... nor" and "Either.... or" etc. Those helped.

Just finished my first diagnostic test. 164 untimed.

TheProdigal

Posts: 1026
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 4:33 pm

### Re: What's generally the difference between high and low Diag test takers?

Broncos15 wrote:Interested in getting some food for thought on this one.

I've seen many people score in the upper 150's and even 160's on cold diags...while others (like me) started poorly

Is it the undergrad courses taken that make a difference? Amount of reading/type of reading one does? or is it more so natural abilities?....I had an awful diag February 2014 ( 145) , but plan on graduating with honors in December so the diag clearly wasn't reflective of my abilities

Logic Games probably is the big wild card here as many people have never seen anything similar to it on a test ( I got only 5 right my first try)......Since it comes to slightly less than 25% of the total score its hard to get in the upper 150's without scoring somewhat decently in LG ( or crushing it on the other sections)

I was doing Logic Game style questions since elementary school. I loved them then, and I was very excited to see them again. You're absolutely right that they play a huge role in the first-time performance of takers.

There's something of an unhealthy focus on diagnostics around here, and what they mean. Its a learnable test (particularly logic games), and that diagnostic doesn't mean a thing in the end. Its only for you, and figuring out what you need to work on to get the score you want. At the end of it all, the only score that matters is how you do on your final, real LSAT. Some people are naturally good at the LSAT. Some are not. Some are going to kill their diagnostic and then struggle to make significant gains through study (this is me, 165 cold, proctored diagnostic, 170 after two takes). Some are going to start below a 150, figure out what they need to know, and knock out a 175+ on their first take. Its a diagnostic that reflects where you are starting from; the idea that it in any way "reflects your abilities," potential, or chances doesn't help you or anyone else.

People might be better off if they never see the scaled score of their diagnostics and just focus on raw scores.

Petrichor

Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:51 pm

### Re: What's generally the difference between high and low Diag test takers?

more rigorous educational background could be a pretty big factor. talked to a co-worker whose husband graduated from CLS, said his diag was a 161 (high score for diag in my opinion) and just studied by himself for 3 months to a 172 on the real thing, no prep material except PTs. he has a PhD in in a STEM field and thought the exam was not too difficult.

RZ5646

Posts: 2391
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 1:31 pm

### Re: What's generally the difference between high and low Diag test takers?

Cool, yet another thread where TLS debates what exactly the LSAT measures and whether intelligence is innate.

164 diag here - I'm generally a smart guy and do well on standardized tests. (For example, I got a 99th percentile SAT score without studying.) I'm sure that being a big reader and a phil major helped, but that diagnostic score was also part of a pattern of high academic achievement that's existed since I started school.

I'm guessing that most other high diagnostic people have the same story: they just tend to be good at tests / "smart."

BlindGuyMcSqueezy

Posts: 58
Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 9:51 am

### Re: What's generally the difference between high and low Diag test takers?

As an orthodox Jew, I feel that studying the Talmud has definitely helped my brain think more logically, because of it I have a good natural grasp of arguments. 168 cold diagnostic.

Generally

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Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:30 pm

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Last edited by Generally on Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SD1992

Posts: 16
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 11:31 pm

### Re: What's generally the difference between high and low Diag test takers?

Broncos15 wrote:Interested in getting some food for thought on this one.

I've seen many people score in the upper 150's and even 160's on cold diags...while others (like me) started poorly

Is it the undergrad courses taken that make a difference? Amount of reading/type of reading one does? or is it more so natural abilities?....I had an awful diag February 2014 ( 145) , but plan on graduating with honors in December so the diag clearly wasn't reflective of my abilities

Logic Games probably is the big wild card here as many people have never seen anything similar to it on a test ( I got only 5 right my first try)......Since it comes to slightly less than 25% of the total score its hard to get in the upper 150's without scoring somewhat decently in LG ( or crushing it on the other sections)

I think the differences in diagnostic scores can be explained almost entirely by the way you were taught to think throughout your undergrad courses.

I was a Philosophy major with -- and I think this is noteworthy -- a concentration in ethics. The LR and RC sections seemed incredibly easy to me. I was completely comfortable parsing dense material and pulling out the important information, as well as identifying premises and conclusions while evaluating arguments. But on the AR section I didn't even know where to begin (I did horrible).

I had friends who majored in Philosophy but had different concentrations and they had different results. My buddy took several math-based logic courses including symbolic logic, and he did amazing on the AR section but not so well on the LR and RC sections.

Everyone says the LSAT is a learnable test. If that's true, I would guess that the learning process starts well before you sit down and crack open your first PS Bible.

Joscellin

Posts: 1514
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:40 am

### Re: What's generally the difference between high and low Diag test takers?

I scored 165 on my cold and haven't gone below, and I give a lot of credit there to my background in debate. Background in argumentation is gold.

LR and RC both come pretty easily to me, and in LR especially, I generally have a pretty intuitive answer right off the bat.

LG, however, I still struggle with sometimes. I can score perfect on a section then -8 the next in LG. It's quite frustrating, and these next two weeks will mostly be spent drilling LG sections )

Edit: By a section I do mean the 4 games, not one. Would hope that's obvious )

Hand

Posts: 3843
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 11:33 am

### Re: What's generally the difference between high and low Diag test takers?

I think the difference can be explained entirely by how regularly different test takers masturbate

And when I say "entirely" I mean entirely. Regularity trumps length of session in each and every instance.

Clyde Frog

Posts: 8978
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 2:27 am

### Re: What's generally the difference between high and low Diag test takers?

Hand wrote:I think the difference can be explained entirely by how regularly different test takers masturbate

And when I say "entirely" I mean entirely. Regularity trumps length of session in each and every instance.

I can attest to this.