Transitioning from untimed LR to timed LR

mjsjr
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Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:05 am

Transitioning from untimed LR to timed LR

Postby mjsjr » Tue May 12, 2015 6:06 pm

I'm just now starting to get to the point where I don't miss any questions when I drill LR sections untimed. I think this means that I am 1) starting to master the fundamentals and 2) getting better at recognizing incorrect and correct answer choices. When I take timed LR sections, however, I often miss 3-7 questions, and often around the latter portion of that range.

Does anyone have any tips for transferring the progress I've made understanding untimed LR questions to preforming similarly on a timed portion of the same questions? On untimed harder questions, I can eventually figure out the way the different parts of an argument work together, or how pieces of information work together, but those questions take a foolish amount of time when I come across them during timed sections.

Any thoughts are welcome!

Thanks.

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ltowns1
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Re: Transitioning from untimed LR to timed LR

Postby ltowns1 » Thu May 14, 2015 7:37 am

mjsjr wrote:I'm just now starting to get to the point where I don't miss any questions when I drill LR sections untimed. I think this means that I am 1) starting to master the fundamentals and 2) getting better at recognizing incorrect and correct answer choices. When I take timed LR sections, however, I often miss 3-7 questions, and often around the latter portion of that range.

Does anyone have any tips for transferring the progress I've made understanding untimed LR questions to preforming similarly on a timed portion of the same questions? On untimed harder questions, I can eventually figure out the way the different parts of an argument work together, or how pieces of information work together, but those questions take a foolish amount of time when I come across them during timed sections.

Any thoughts are welcome!

Thanks.


Are you reviewing your right/wrong answers? Are there commonalities between the answers that you're getting wrong? You should be trying to figure out what patterns are happening in your testing.

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ltowns1
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Re: Transitioning from untimed LR to timed LR

Postby ltowns1 » Thu May 14, 2015 7:37 am

mjsjr wrote:I'm just now starting to get to the point where I don't miss any questions when I drill LR sections untimed. I think this means that I am 1) starting to master the fundamentals and 2) getting better at recognizing incorrect and correct answer choices. When I take timed LR sections, however, I often miss 3-7 questions, and often around the latter portion of that range.

Does anyone have any tips for transferring the progress I've made understanding untimed LR questions to preforming similarly on a timed portion of the same questions? On untimed harder questions, I can eventually figure out the way the different parts of an argument work together, or how pieces of information work together, but those questions take a foolish amount of time when I come across them during timed sections.

Any thoughts are welcome!

Thanks.


Are you reviewing your right/wrong answers? Are there commonalities between the answers that you're getting wrong? You should be trying to figure out what patterns are happening in your testing.

mjsjr
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:05 am

Re: Transitioning from untimed LR to timed LR

Postby mjsjr » Fri May 15, 2015 1:47 am

ltowns1 wrote:
mjsjr wrote:I'm just now starting to get to the point where I don't miss any questions when I drill LR sections untimed. I think this means that I am 1) starting to master the fundamentals and 2) getting better at recognizing incorrect and correct answer choices. When I take timed LR sections, however, I often miss 3-7 questions, and often around the latter portion of that range.

Does anyone have any tips for transferring the progress I've made understanding untimed LR questions to preforming similarly on a timed portion of the same questions? On untimed harder questions, I can eventually figure out the way the different parts of an argument work together, or how pieces of information work together, but those questions take a foolish amount of time when I come across them during timed sections.

Any thoughts are welcome!

Thanks.


Are you reviewing your right/wrong answers? Are there commonalities between the answers that you're getting wrong? You should be trying to figure out what patterns are happening in your testing.


Thanks for your response!

To answer your questions: I always try to review any question I wasn't 100% confident on. When I take timed LR sections, I circle questions I'm not sure on. After I finish the section and before I look at the correct answers, I review the circled questions to see if I can understand them better untimed, and I change my answer choice if needed. The problem is that even when I change answer choices accurately, I'm only able to do so untimed; I would have got those questions wrong when I originally answered under timed conditions.

I just can't seem to figure out how to get faster at those tougher questions. To answer your other question about the types of questions I'm missing, I would say that the only commonality is they are often in the 12-20 range and they are questions I consider "difficult". Do you think repetition of those tougher question types will help? I've gone through PTs 1-20 for my LR drilling (some weren't used for LR; they were used as actual PTs), so I don't want to run out of material just drilling LR. Does 1-20 sound like too many? Am I missing something, or do you think some more drilling will help me recognize effective means of completing tougher question types?

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ltowns1
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Re: Transitioning from untimed LR to timed LR

Postby ltowns1 » Fri May 15, 2015 7:51 am

I'm certainly no expert, and from what it sounds like you may need one. But here is my two cents. First, no it's not too much drilling. I'm actuall realizing how important drilling LR is right now for the question types I can't handle as well. You did say some things that I think you can change and hopefully get better results.

First when you said that you can only change your answer untimed, that would suggest that you may need to review simply slow down. Have you tried speeding up on the first 10-12 questions so you can have more time on the later questions. Secondly, I believe drilling is never a bad thing when you're having problems with a particular question type in my opinion, but it doesn't sound like drilling may be the most effective thing for you to do at the moment. You may need to speed up on those initial first ten to have more time on the harder questions . Try speeding up without losing ur accuracy on the first ten. Make sure you're focusing on why the wrong answers are wrong on those tougher questions as well. When you do approach the harder questions you want to look for the patterns in the wrong answers. That's something I've found really helpful in my preparation, and I'm sure most people would say the same thing. The authors are so clever in disguising the right answer, that you really have to be aware of that fact and simplest stick to the core of the argument, more specially the conclusion and use that to eliminate obviously wrong answers. If you so that at least answers will prob jump out at you as wrong simply because they don't follow the point that the conclusion is trying to make. When you do focus on eliminating, make sure you have clear reasons for why you got rid of the answer you did. Thats my two cents, let me see if I can exert some "LSAT PULL" and get someone to help you lol ha...(it may take a good little while so don't check back soon lol..these folks are always busy..of course)

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JackelJ
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Re: Transitioning from untimed LR to timed LR

Postby JackelJ » Fri May 15, 2015 8:32 am

mjsjr wrote:I just can't seem to figure out how to get faster at those tougher questions. To answer your other question about the types of questions I'm missing, I would say that the only commonality is they are often in the 12-20 range and they are questions I consider "difficult". Do you think repetition of those tougher question types will help? I've gone through PTs 1-20 for my LR drilling (some weren't used for LR; they were used as actual PTs), so I don't want to run out of material just drilling LR. Does 1-20 sound like too many? Am I missing something, or do you think some more drilling will help me recognize effective means of completing tougher question types?

Drill, Drill, Drill! Using 20 PTs is definitely not too much to drill with, and you can use more PTs for drilling and still have plenty for PTing. If you can get them all right untimed then you probably have the fundamentals down. Drilling will make you much faster at the easier questions so you'll have more time to devote to the more difficult questions and find the right answer.

mjsjr
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Re: Transitioning from untimed LR to timed LR

Postby mjsjr » Sat May 16, 2015 1:07 am

JackelJ wrote:
mjsjr wrote:I just can't seem to figure out how to get faster at those tougher questions. To answer your other question about the types of questions I'm missing, I would say that the only commonality is they are often in the 12-20 range and they are questions I consider "difficult". Do you think repetition of those tougher question types will help? I've gone through PTs 1-20 for my LR drilling (some weren't used for LR; they were used as actual PTs), so I don't want to run out of material just drilling LR. Does 1-20 sound like too many? Am I missing something, or do you think some more drilling will help me recognize effective means of completing tougher question types?

Drill, Drill, Drill! Using 20 PTs is definitely not too much to drill with, and you can use more PTs for drilling and still have plenty for PTing. If you can get them all right untimed then you probably have the fundamentals down. Drilling will make you much faster at the easier questions so you'll have more time to devote to the more difficult questions and find the right answer.


Okay, great. It helps to hear someone say that I'm not wasting my PTs on LR drills; I hope you're right :D . I'll keep at it then. Thanks for the input!

pawlaw10
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Re: Transitioning from untimed LR to timed LR

Postby pawlaw10 » Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:14 pm

I have it in my schedule over 10 weeks to ween my time down. So week 1, I set my timer for 45 minutes which is a TON of time. I never use this much time, but it helps knowing I'm not in a rush. Week 2- 44 mins, week 3- 43, etc. So by the time week 10 comes I'm at 35 mins. The entire 10 weeks I do drills, lessons, and review strategies so my confidence level and familiarity goes up as well. I have the bulk of the pt's in the last 8 weeks on the normal 35 minute limit.

mjsjr
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Re: Transitioning from untimed LR to timed LR

Postby mjsjr » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:42 am

UPDATE:

This post is meant to give insight to anyone who may experiences issues with performing well on timed LR sections.

I thought it would be interesting to update this thread based on my recent performance. I've been drilling LR consistently since my original post, and I think I've seen positive results. Obviously drilling alone will not guarantee vast improvement. But, to answer my own question, drilling along with reviewing and critical evaluation is an effective means of improving timed LR skills. Since doing the above I've seen great improvement in my timed PTs, and I feel much more confident while going through LR sections. I didn't reach 100% accuracy on any timed LR section, but I came very close (-1)--which represents a six-point improvement from my previous average.

Thank you for all of the suggestions!

konoha
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:45 pm

Re: Transitioning from untimed LR to timed LR

Postby konoha » Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:04 pm

mjsjr wrote:UPDATE:

This post is meant to give insight to anyone who may experiences issues with performing well on timed LR sections.

I thought it would be interesting to update this thread based on my recent performance. I've been drilling LR consistently since my original post, and I think I've seen positive results. Obviously drilling alone will not guarantee vast improvement. But, to answer my own question, drilling along with reviewing and critical evaluation is an effective means of improving timed LR skills. Since doing the above I've seen great improvement in my timed PTs, and I feel much more confident while going through LR sections. I didn't reach 100% accuracy on any timed LR section, but I came very close (-1)--which represents a six-point improvement from my previous average.

Thank you for all of the suggestions!


Was this by yourself or with a coach?

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Blueprint Sam
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Re: Transitioning from untimed LR to timed LR

Postby Blueprint Sam » Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:49 am

mjsjr wrote:UPDATE:

This post is meant to give insight to anyone who may experiences issues with performing well on timed LR sections.

I thought it would be interesting to update this thread based on my recent performance. I've been drilling LR consistently since my original post, and I think I've seen positive results. Obviously drilling alone will not guarantee vast improvement. But, to answer my own question, drilling along with reviewing and critical evaluation is an effective means of improving timed LR skills. Since doing the above I've seen great improvement in my timed PTs, and I feel much more confident while going through LR sections. I didn't reach 100% accuracy on any timed LR section, but I came very close (-1)--which represents a six-point improvement from my previous average.

Thank you for all of the suggestions!


This is fantastic news. Once you have obtained familiarity with all of the question types and the most efficient and effective approaches to those questions, it really does just come down to industrious practice. There is no secret to automatically doing well on timed versus untimed tests besides the experience that comes with practice, and the diligence of reviewing your mistakes critically (i.e. looking for patterns of questions you've missed, or asking why you missed the question - maybe you read it too fast, were still thinking about a tough question from earlier in the test, or just struggle with this certain question type). It's great to hear that you've put in the hard work to critically analyze your practice tests and the results prove that. 8) 8) 8)

mjsjr
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:05 am

Re: Transitioning from untimed LR to timed LR

Postby mjsjr » Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:51 am

Blueprint Sam wrote:
mjsjr wrote:UPDATE:

This post is meant to give insight to anyone who may experiences issues with performing well on timed LR sections.

I thought it would be interesting to update this thread based on my recent performance. I've been drilling LR consistently since my original post, and I think I've seen positive results. Obviously drilling alone will not guarantee vast improvement. But, to answer my own question, drilling along with reviewing and critical evaluation is an effective means of improving timed LR skills. Since doing the above I've seen great improvement in my timed PTs, and I feel much more confident while going through LR sections. I didn't reach 100% accuracy on any timed LR section, but I came very close (-1)--which represents a six-point improvement from my previous average.

Thank you for all of the suggestions!


This is fantastic news. Once you have obtained familiarity with all of the question types and the most efficient and effective approaches to those questions, it really does just come down to industrious practice. There is no secret to automatically doing well on timed versus untimed tests besides the experience that comes with practice, and the diligence of reviewing your mistakes critically (i.e. looking for patterns of questions you've missed, or asking why you missed the question - maybe you read it too fast, were still thinking about a tough question from earlier in the test, or just struggle with this certain question type). It's great to hear that you've put in the hard work to critically analyze your practice tests and the results prove that. 8) 8) 8)


Thanks! It feels good to actually see improvements for once, hah!

konoha wrote:
mjsjr wrote:UPDATE:

This post is meant to give insight to anyone who may experiences issues with performing well on timed LR sections.

I thought it would be interesting to update this thread based on my recent performance. I've been drilling LR consistently since my original post, and I think I've seen positive results. Obviously drilling alone will not guarantee vast improvement. But, to answer my own question, drilling along with reviewing and critical evaluation is an effective means of improving timed LR skills. Since doing the above I've seen great improvement in my timed PTs, and I feel much more confident while going through LR sections. I didn't reach 100% accuracy on any timed LR section, but I came very close (-1)--which represents a six-point improvement from my previous average.

Thank you for all of the suggestions!


Was this by yourself or with a coach?



My only coach is myself, unless you count the individuals who encourage me on TLS :wink: . I would love to hire a tutor just so that I could say I've covered every approach to the LSAT, and because I'm sure it would expedite my improvement, but I'm also sure it's unnecessary. Right now I essentially use tactics discussed on the forums, specifically those covered by TLS1776's study guide. I don't imitate exactly what he did, but I keep a lot of it in mind because it's very helpful.

Why do you ask?

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ltowns1
Posts: 696
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Re: Transitioning from untimed LR to timed LR

Postby ltowns1 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:54 pm

mjsjr wrote:
Blueprint Sam wrote:
mjsjr wrote:UPDATE:

This post is meant to give insight to anyone who may experiences issues with performing well on timed LR sections.

I thought it would be interesting to update this thread based on my recent performance. I've been drilling LR consistently since my original post, and I think I've seen positive results. Obviously drilling alone will not guarantee vast improvement. But, to answer my own question, drilling along with reviewing and critical evaluation is an effective means of improving timed LR skills. Since doing the above I've seen great improvement in my timed PTs, and I feel much more confident while going through LR sections. I didn't reach 100% accuracy on any timed LR section, but I came very close (-1)--which represents a six-point improvement from my previous average.

Thank you for all of the suggestions!


This is fantastic news. Once you have obtained familiarity with all of the question types and the most efficient and effective approaches to those questions, it really does just come down to industrious practice. There is no secret to automatically doing well on timed versus untimed tests besides the experience that comes with practice, and the diligence of reviewing your mistakes critically (i.e. looking for patterns of questions you've missed, or asking why you missed the question - maybe you read it too fast, were still thinking about a tough question from earlier in the test, or just struggle with this certain question type). It's great to hear that you've put in the hard work to critically analyze your practice tests and the results prove that. 8) 8) 8)


Thanks! It feels good to actually see improvements for once, hah!

konoha wrote:
mjsjr wrote:UPDATE:

This post is meant to give insight to anyone who may experiences issues with performing well on timed LR sections.

I thought it would be interesting to update this thread based on my recent performance. I've been drilling LR consistently since my original post, and I think I've seen positive results. Obviously drilling alone will not guarantee vast improvement. But, to answer my own question, drilling along with reviewing and critical evaluation is an effective means of improving timed LR skills. Since doing the above I've seen great improvement in my timed PTs, and I feel much more confident while going through LR sections. I didn't reach 100% accuracy on any timed LR section, but I came very close (-1)--which represents a six-point improvement from my previous average.

Thank you for all of the suggestions!


Was this by yourself or with a coach?



My only coach is myself, unless you count the individuals who encourage me on TLS :wink: . I would love to hire a tutor just so that I could say I've covered every approach to the LSAT, and because I'm sure it would expedite my improvement, but I'm also sure it's unnecessary. Right now I essentially use tactics discussed on the forums, specifically those covered by TLS1776's study guide. I don't imitate exactly what he did, but I keep a lot of it in mind because it's very helpful.

Why do you ask?



Yep ^^^^ exactly. The advice from the thread for how to get a 160+ is extremely helpful as well.




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