Logic Game Woes

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gatsby1991
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:24 pm

Logic Game Woes

Postby gatsby1991 » Wed May 06, 2015 3:31 pm

Anyone have any similar frustration regarding Grouping Games? It literally takes me like 15 minutes to finish one and do well. This is my weakest point by far. Is it just practice practice practice? Timing in terms of LG overall is my weak point. Any advice?

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LawsRUs
Posts: 1970
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:40 pm

Re: Logic Game Woes

Postby LawsRUs » Thu May 07, 2015 5:05 am

1. Yeah, it's basically practice.
2. Are you drilling by Cambridge packets? And watching 7sage videos? Manhattan guide helped me on LG. Also "Ace the LSAT Logic Games" if you need extra practice.

Print multiple copies of the same game, do it once, watch 7sage, re-do one more time, wait a few days and do it over and over again until it becomes second nature. In the beginning of my practice, I printed ~10 copies of the same LG question set, then graduated to about 3. GL

GospelLeague
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:58 pm

Re: Logic Game Woes

Postby GospelLeague » Thu May 14, 2015 5:14 pm

Everyone has told me LG is super learnable.

I haven't started drilling LG yet but find them intimidating. Maybe because I was doing badly in math.

PoopNpants
Posts: 856
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:40 pm

Re: Logic Game Woes

Postby PoopNpants » Thu May 14, 2015 5:52 pm

GospelLeague wrote:Everyone has told me LG is super learnable.

I haven't started drilling LG yet but find them intimidating. Maybe because I was doing badly in math.


Trust me math skills for the most part are, while probably helpful, are by no means required for logic games. Getting games down is just all about practice, realizing when to use the right technique, and the best way to approach certain questions. Diagramming skills are key to logic games success too, check out 7sage as JY is great at not only doing games but explaining them in a simplistic manner and he is also great at knowing when conditional rules trigger and if/when to "split the gameboard" I.E. split up your main diagram into workable diagrams to show certain possibilites that exist according to game rules

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Jeffort
Posts: 1896
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:43 pm

Re: Logic Game Woes

Postby Jeffort » Fri May 15, 2015 3:11 am

PoopNpants wrote:
GospelLeague wrote:Everyone has told me LG is super learnable.

I haven't started drilling LG yet but find them intimidating. Maybe because I was doing badly in math.


Trust me math skills for the most part are, while probably helpful, are by no means required for logic games. Getting games down is just all about practice, realizing when to use the right technique, and the best way to approach certain questions. Diagramming skills are key to logic games success too, check out 7sage as JY is great at not only doing games but explaining them in a simplistic manner and he is also great at knowing when conditional rules trigger and if/when to "split the gameboard" I.E. split up your main diagram into workable diagrams to show certain possibilites that exist according to game rules


For many of the harder games (especially for undefined group size grouping games), good basic math skills are important since numerical distribution possibilities and limitations deductions are super important for properly understanding and efficiently solving games that involve numerical distribution relationships/issues/rules/restrictions.

For example, PT18 game #1. The key deductions you can figure out up front while building the setup that make answering the questions a piece of cake requires recognizing that numerical distribution is in play and figuring out the limited numerical distribution possibilities. That's just one of many games where the key deductions for solving the questions quickly/efficiently with 100% accuracy flow from recognizing that numerical distribution is an important controlling aspect of the game and then figuring out the limited numerical distribution possibilities the set of rules establishes.

GospelLeague
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:58 pm

Re: Logic Game Woes

Postby GospelLeague » Sat May 16, 2015 11:30 pm

Jeffort wrote:
PoopNpants wrote:
GospelLeague wrote:Everyone has told me LG is super learnable.

I haven't started drilling LG yet but find them intimidating. Maybe because I was doing badly in math.


Trust me math skills for the most part are, while probably helpful, are by no means required for logic games. Getting games down is just all about practice, realizing when to use the right technique, and the best way to approach certain questions. Diagramming skills are key to logic games success too, check out 7sage as JY is great at not only doing games but explaining them in a simplistic manner and he is also great at knowing when conditional rules trigger and if/when to "split the gameboard" I.E. split up your main diagram into workable diagrams to show certain possibilites that exist according to game rules


For many of the harder games (especially for undefined group size grouping games), good basic math skills are important since numerical distribution possibilities and limitations deductions are super important for properly understanding and efficiently solving games that involve numerical distribution relationships/issues/rules/restrictions.

For example, PT18 game #1. The key deductions you can figure out up front while building the setup that make answering the questions a piece of cake requires recognizing that numerical distribution is in play and figuring out the limited numerical distribution possibilities. That's just one of many games where the key deductions for solving the questions quickly/efficiently with 100% accuracy flow from recognizing that numerical distribution is an important controlling aspect of the game and then figuring out the limited numerical distribution possibilities the set of rules establishes.


I've got 166 for GRE Quantitative Reasoning.... would you see it as "good basic math skills"? XD

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Jeffort
Posts: 1896
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:43 pm

Re: Logic Game Woes

Postby Jeffort » Sun May 17, 2015 1:29 am

GospelLeague wrote:
Jeffort wrote:
PoopNpants wrote:
GospelLeague wrote:Everyone has told me LG is super learnable.

I haven't started drilling LG yet but find them intimidating. Maybe because I was doing badly in math.


Trust me math skills for the most part are, while probably helpful, are by no means required for logic games. Getting games down is just all about practice, realizing when to use the right technique, and the best way to approach certain questions. Diagramming skills are key to logic games success too, check out 7sage as JY is great at not only doing games but explaining them in a simplistic manner and he is also great at knowing when conditional rules trigger and if/when to "split the gameboard" I.E. split up your main diagram into workable diagrams to show certain possibilites that exist according to game rules


For many of the harder games (especially for undefined group size grouping games), good basic math skills are important since numerical distribution possibilities and limitations deductions are super important for properly understanding and efficiently solving games that involve numerical distribution relationships/issues/rules/restrictions.

For example, PT18 game #1. The key deductions you can figure out up front while building the setup that make answering the questions a piece of cake requires recognizing that numerical distribution is in play and figuring out the limited numerical distribution possibilities. That's just one of many games where the key deductions for solving the questions quickly/efficiently with 100% accuracy flow from recognizing that numerical distribution is an important controlling aspect of the game and then figuring out the limited numerical distribution possibilities the set of rules establishes.


I've got 166 for GRE Quantitative Reasoning.... would you see it as "good basic math skills"? XD


lol, isn't that a near perfect QR score?

By good basic math skills, I'm just talking about really basic stuff like being able to do simple calculations quickly and accurately w/o a calculator.

Basic things like figuring out/calculating all the numerical distribution possibilities when faced with rules/constraints such as these:

Six variables
Three groups
There must be at least one variable in each group.

or a slightly more complicated situation like:

Eight variables
Three groups (X, Y & Z)
There must be at least one variable in each group.
Group X must contain exactly twice as many variables as group Y.

I'm not talking about any of the advanced math skills/knowledge that is tested on the GRE or GMAT.

For difficult LSAT LG's that involve numerical distribution, it's really helpful to have the basic math skills to be able to do some really basic addition, subtraction, division and multiplication quickly on the fly without a calculator. That's all I'm talking about, nothing advanced or anything, just being able to do basic math calculations accurately and fast without a calculator.

GospelLeague
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:58 pm

Re: Logic Game Woes

Postby GospelLeague » Sun May 17, 2015 10:37 am

Jeffort wrote:
GospelLeague wrote:
Jeffort wrote:
PoopNpants wrote:
GospelLeague wrote:Everyone has told me LG is super learnable.

I haven't started drilling LG yet but find them intimidating. Maybe because I was doing badly in math.


Trust me math skills for the most part are, while probably helpful, are by no means required for logic games. Getting games down is just all about practice, realizing when to use the right technique, and the best way to approach certain questions. Diagramming skills are key to logic games success too, check out 7sage as JY is great at not only doing games but explaining them in a simplistic manner and he is also great at knowing when conditional rules trigger and if/when to "split the gameboard" I.E. split up your main diagram into workable diagrams to show certain possibilites that exist according to game rules


For many of the harder games (especially for undefined group size grouping games), good basic math skills are important since numerical distribution possibilities and limitations deductions are super important for properly understanding and efficiently solving games that involve numerical distribution relationships/issues/rules/restrictions.

For example, PT18 game #1. The key deductions you can figure out up front while building the setup that make answering the questions a piece of cake requires recognizing that numerical distribution is in play and figuring out the limited numerical distribution possibilities. That's just one of many games where the key deductions for solving the questions quickly/efficiently with 100% accuracy flow from recognizing that numerical distribution is an important controlling aspect of the game and then figuring out the limited numerical distribution possibilities the set of rules establishes.


I've got 166 for GRE Quantitative Reasoning.... would you see it as "good basic math skills"? XD


lol, isn't that a near perfect QR score?

By good basic math skills, I'm just talking about really basic stuff like being able to do simple calculations quickly and accurately w/o a calculator.

Basic things like figuring out/calculating all the numerical distribution possibilities when faced with rules/constraints such as these:

Six variables
Three groups
There must be at least one variable in each group.

or a slightly more complicated situation like:

Eight variables
Three groups (X, Y & Z)
There must be at least one variable in each group.
Group X must contain exactly twice as many variables as group Y.

I'm not talking about any of the advanced math skills/knowledge that is tested on the GRE or GMAT.

For difficult LSAT LG's that involve numerical distribution, it's really helpful to have the basic math skills to be able to do some really basic addition, subtraction, division and multiplication quickly on the fly without a calculator. That's all I'm talking about, nothing advanced or anything, just being able to do basic math calculations accurately and fast without a calculator.


Thank you for the advice :) really helpful.
It bothers me that I've got -13 on LG in cold diagnostic. Have to drill the Cambridge bundle now..

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ltowns1
Posts: 693
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 1:13 am

Re: Logic Game Woes

Postby ltowns1 » Sun May 17, 2015 11:07 am

I really don't like to oversimplify things, but as someone said earlier, recognize the type of logic game diagram you need,and then drill them until that game becomes easy for you to do. Literally just do it over and over again. If you have problems figuring out what to do on a specific game, look at the 7sage videos to figure out how to do that particular game better. With a lot of time, you'll be able know when a game is predicated on using a little math, or figuring out when it will be useful to split gameboard up etc. it takes a lot of time for people to get, but hey, what score do you want on the test? Lol good luck! (And of course if there is some game that just really stumps you, or there is some detail that you wish to discuss, all the smart folks on TLS will be available for you)




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