170-->175

IndyCincy93
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 7:10 am

170-->175

Postby IndyCincy93 » Tue May 05, 2015 7:15 am

Sorry if this has been asked before, just discovered this site and thought I'd ask...

I started studying for the June Test in February by drilling question types, game types. Goal score at the time was a 170. Started taking PT's in late March. First one was a 168. Since then I've taken 12 PT's (all from 55 up) and my average is 170.

Now my new ideal score is a 175 but I am consistently missing 9-12 questions every test. It will vary each test, sometimes a passage will kill me, sometimes a game. Very rarely miss more than 4 on both LR's. I feel like I "get" why I get a question wrong when I review it, just can't seem to put it all together on a PT for a 175ish score.

Have I reached my ceiling, so to speak, or is upper-level improvement achievable?

Thanks.

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Christine (MLSAT)
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:41 pm

Re: 170-->175

Postby Christine (MLSAT) » Tue May 05, 2015 1:30 pm

Nothing in this says you've reached your ceiling, necessarily.

I know you say you "get" why your wrong answers are wrong, but can you tell us more? I find that a lot of students will look up the right answer/explanation, and kind of feel like "Huh, okay, yeah, well, I guess I can see why (A) is the answer." That kind of "getting it" doesn't parlay into getting it right next time. That's like reluctantly agreeing to go to a monster truck rally with the guy you just started dating because he's so hot. It doesn't mean you get monster trucks, or would choose to go there again on your own.

Do you do blind review? If you aren't fixing your errors on blind review, before knowing what the right answer is, that means you aren't FULLY "getting" that question.

Also, make sure that you're marking any question that you feel even remotely uncomfortable with during the section/PT. That way, even when you get them right, you know where you weren't 100% confident.

There's some pattern to your misses - you've got to dig deep to figure out what that pattern is. At your level, it's generally not question-type specific, but rather something about the reasoning structures, or the phrasing of a particular idea.

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Clyde Frog
Posts: 7000
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 2:27 am

Re: 170-->175

Postby Clyde Frog » Tue May 05, 2015 1:34 pm

Christine (MLSAT) wrote:Nothing in this says you've reached your ceiling, necessarily.

I know you say you "get" why your wrong answers are wrong, but can you tell us more? I find that a lot of students will look up the right answer/explanation, and kind of feel like "Huh, okay, yeah, well, I guess I can see why (A) is the answer." That kind of "getting it" doesn't parlay into getting it right next time. That's like reluctantly agreeing to go to a monster truck rally with the guy you just started dating because he's so hot. It doesn't mean you get monster trucks, or would choose to go there again on your own.

Do you do blind review? If you aren't fixing your errors on blind review, before knowing what the right answer is, that means you aren't FULLY "getting" that question.

Also, make sure that you're marking any question that you feel even remotely uncomfortable with during the section/PT. That way, even when you get them right, you know where you weren't 100% confident.

There's some pattern to your misses - you've got to dig deep to figure out what that pattern is. At your level, it's generally not question-type specific, but rather something about the reasoning structures, or the phrasing of a particular idea.



:lol:

k5220
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:36 pm

Re: 170-->175

Postby k5220 » Tue May 05, 2015 1:52 pm

I brought my score up from 168/169 PTs to 175 by fixing my timing on RC. Leaving the comparative passage til last really helped, cause it was so much easier to rush through since the passages are short and necessarily less dense. And so I ended up making a lot less errors because of the time crunch at the end. And then I started using highlighters when reading cause it's easier to find neon pink notes than pencil notes.

(I know that is kind of specific and maybe it was just a personal problem, but thought I'd share in case it helps you at all)

Good luck!

IndyCincy93
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 7:10 am

Re: 170-->175

Postby IndyCincy93 » Tue May 05, 2015 2:22 pm

Christine (MLSAT) wrote:Nothing in this says you've reached your ceiling, necessarily.

I know you say you "get" why your wrong answers are wrong, but can you tell us more? I find that a lot of students will look up the right answer/explanation, and kind of feel like "Huh, okay, yeah, well, I guess I can see why (A) is the answer." That kind of "getting it" doesn't parlay into getting it right next time. That's like reluctantly agreeing to go to a monster truck rally with the guy you just started dating because he's so hot. It doesn't mean you get monster trucks, or would choose to go there again on your own.

Do you do blind review? If you aren't fixing your errors on blind review, before knowing what the right answer is, that means you aren't FULLY "getting" that question.

Also, make sure that you're marking any question that you feel even remotely uncomfortable with during the section/PT. That way, even when you get them right, you know where you weren't 100% confident.

There's some pattern to your misses - you've got to dig deep to figure out what that pattern is. At your level, it's generally not question-type specific, but rather something about the reasoning structures, or the phrasing of a particular idea.


Sorry, I was kind of vague. Yes, I do blind review, although I admit I kind of half-ass it because I usually just BR the 3-4 I got wrong and give the ones I got correct but was not 100% on a cursory glance using the Manhattan LSAT Forums to solidify my reasoning.
And yes, there hasn't been a specific question type that I repeatedly miss which is why this can be sort of frustrating--one thing I have noticed is that the 2-4 LR I will miss are usually in the 15-20 range.

IndyCincy93
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 7:10 am

Re: 170-->175

Postby IndyCincy93 » Tue May 05, 2015 2:26 pm

k5220 wrote:I brought my score up from 168/169 PTs to 175 by fixing my timing on RC. Leaving the comparative passage til last really helped, cause it was so much easier to rush through since the passages are short and necessarily less dense. And so I ended up making a lot less errors because of the time crunch at the end. And then I started using highlighters when reading cause it's easier to find neon pink notes than pencil notes.

(I know that is kind of specific and maybe it was just a personal problem, but thought I'd share in case it helps you at all)

Good luck!


Thanks, I'll try this!

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Christine (MLSAT)
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:41 pm

Re: 170-->175

Postby Christine (MLSAT) » Tue May 05, 2015 2:36 pm

IndyCincy93 wrote:Sorry, I was kind of vague. Yes, I do blind review, although I admit I kind of half-ass it because I usually just BR the 3-4 I got wrong and give the ones I got correct but was not 100% on a cursory glance using the Manhattan LSAT Forums to solidify my reasoning.
And yes, there hasn't been a specific question type that I repeatedly miss which is why this can be sort of frustrating--one thing I have noticed is that the 2-4 LR I will miss are usually in the 15-20 range.


That's your issue then. :mrgreen:

Technically blind review should be done without even knowing which ones you got wrong. It sounds like you're 'blinding' yourself to the explanation, but since you're only doing it for the ones you missed, you already have a bias on them.

Next PT or timed section, try this: mark everything you were less than 100% about. It's helpful to use a sliding scale of some sort. I used to underline the question number, and the more the question frustrated me, the more underlines it got.

If you're missing 3-4, there are surely another 3-4 that you were similarly unsure of, but you got a bit luckier. This marking up should capture all of them, and you won't yet know which were right and which were wrong. Blind review the living hell out of all of them.

Don't just read them over and over again until it clicks - explicitly articulate the steps of your process that you are going through to get to the correct answer. Explicitly articulate what it is that makes each answer wrong. Sit there and wrestle with it until you get yourself to 100% certainty, even if that takes an epic amount of time. ONLY AFTER you have done that for all of them are you allowed to see which ones were originally right. At that point, you should be doing another layer of review, particularly on anything you were still getting wrong blind. It's only at the end of all of this that you should be consulting the forums for explanations.

(If you missed one that wasn't in this bundle of review, that means you missed it while feeling 100% confident on it, and that's an interesting thing to investigate separately.)

You're just not digging deep enough into the ones you miss *or* the ones you feel less confident on - that's where your improvement is going to come from. And it's unsurprising that your misses defy question type and sit in the 15-20 zone - you're missing questions in the hot zone, where the language gets dense, the trap answers get really attractive, and it's easy to get turned around.

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biggestlawman
Posts: 650
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:29 pm

Re: 170-->175

Postby biggestlawman » Tue May 05, 2015 4:45 pm

Christine (MLSAT) wrote:
IndyCincy93 wrote:Sorry, I was kind of vague. Yes, I do blind review, although I admit I kind of half-ass it because I usually just BR the 3-4 I got wrong and give the ones I got correct but was not 100% on a cursory glance using the Manhattan LSAT Forums to solidify my reasoning.
And yes, there hasn't been a specific question type that I repeatedly miss which is why this can be sort of frustrating--one thing I have noticed is that the 2-4 LR I will miss are usually in the 15-20 range.


That's your issue then. :mrgreen:

Technically blind review should be done without even knowing which ones you got wrong. It sounds like you're 'blinding' yourself to the explanation, but since you're only doing it for the ones you missed, you already have a bias on them.

Next PT or timed section, try this: mark everything you were less than 100% about. It's helpful to use a sliding scale of some sort. I used to underline the question number, and the more the question frustrated me, the more underlines it got.

If you're missing 3-4, there are surely another 3-4 that you were similarly unsure of, but you got a bit luckier. This marking up should capture all of them, and you won't yet know which were right and which were wrong. Blind review the living hell out of all of them.

Don't just read them over and over again until it clicks - explicitly articulate the steps of your process that you are going through to get to the correct answer. Explicitly articulate what it is that makes each answer wrong. Sit there and wrestle with it until you get yourself to 100% certainty, even if that takes an epic amount of time. ONLY AFTER you have done that for all of them are you allowed to see which ones were originally right. At that point, you should be doing another layer of review, particularly on anything you were still getting wrong blind. It's only at the end of all of this that you should be consulting the forums for explanations.

(If you missed one that wasn't in this bundle of review, that means you missed it while feeling 100% confident on it, and that's an interesting thing to investigate separately.)

You're just not digging deep enough into the ones you miss *or* the ones you feel less confident on - that's where your improvement is going to come from. And it's unsurprising that your misses defy question type and sit in the 15-20 zone - you're missing questions in the hot zone, where the language gets dense, the trap answers get really attractive, and it's easy to get turned around.


Please elaborate!

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RZ5646
Posts: 2391
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 1:31 pm

Re: 170-->175

Postby RZ5646 » Tue May 05, 2015 5:12 pm

Christine (MLSAT) wrote:That's like reluctantly agreeing to go to a monster truck rally with the guy you just started dating because he's so hot. It doesn't mean you get monster trucks, or would choose to go there again on your own.


I love these glimpses into the personal lives of LSAT prep professionals.




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