7sage maintaining price despite no longer offering PTs

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Deleterious
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7sage maintaining price despite no longer offering PTs

Postby Deleterious » Sat May 02, 2015 10:29 pm

I realize this is a free country and that businesses can sell their products for whatever price they choose but is anyone else surprised that 7sage hasn't dropped the price of their LSAT prep courses? Students now have to buy questions and PTs separately and, presumably, 7sage no longer has to pay for licensing material they are no longer able to distribute. I've always heard that a big part of the cost of a prep class is the licensing of official materials. Maybe I'm missing something.

Pacman
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Re: 7sage maintaining price despite no longer offering PTs

Postby Pacman » Sat May 02, 2015 10:52 pm

Deleterious wrote:I realize this is a free country and that businesses can sell their products for whatever price they choose but is anyone else surprised that 7sage hasn't dropped the price of their LSAT prep courses? Students now have to buy questions and PTs separately and, presumably, 7sage no longer has to pay for licensing material they are no longer able to distribute. I've always heard that a big part of the cost of a prep class is the licensing of official materials. Maybe I'm missing something.


It's not surprising at all to those who understand how the system works. What you're missing is the fact that 7Sage IS still paying for licensing materials since there are dozens if not hundreds of questions utilized in the videos within their curriculum. Since they have been paying LSAC for licensing for these videos since their inception they were simply able to give away the PTs and problem sets as their intellectual property had already been purchased. I have seen this griping everywhere and it stems from a complete lack of understanding of how LSAC forces test prep companies to operate and test prep companies are taking way too much flak from whiny kids when they should be railing against LSAC's bullshit policies. This will end up burning LSAC in the long run, but in the meantime anyone with any sense can find any prep tests they want for pretty cheap on amazon and elsewhere.

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Deleterious
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Re: 7sage maintaining price despite no longer offering PTs

Postby Deleterious » Sat May 02, 2015 11:05 pm

Pacman wrote:
Deleterious wrote:I realize this is a free country and that businesses can sell their products for whatever price they choose but is anyone else surprised that 7sage hasn't dropped the price of their LSAT prep courses? Students now have to buy questions and PTs separately and, presumably, 7sage no longer has to pay for licensing material they are no longer able to distribute. I've always heard that a big part of the cost of a prep class is the licensing of official materials. Maybe I'm missing something.


It's not surprising at all to those who understand how the system works. What you're missing is the fact that 7Sage IS still paying for licensing materials since there are dozens if not hundreds of questions utilized in the videos within their curriculum. Since they have been paying LSAC for licensing for these videos since their inception they were simply able to give away the PTs and problem sets as their intellectual property had already been purchased. I have seen this griping everywhere and it stems from a complete lack of understanding of how LSAC forces test prep companies to operate and test prep companies are taking way too much flak from whiny kids when they should be railing against LSAC's bullshit policies. This will end up burning LSAC in the long run, but in the meantime anyone with any sense can find any prep tests they want for pretty cheap on amazon and elsewhere.


Hey bud, don't be such an aggressive douche. I'm simply asking a question. Bottom line is that students who take the class now have to spend money for materials which they were previously given for free (and yes I realize they aren't really "free" since the cost is figured into the course fee). I don't think it's reasonable to expect consumers to fully understand the ins-and-outs of licensing these materials, and if prep companies are getting flak then they should explain exactly what is happening and why so that potential customers have all the information.

ETA---are you confirming 100% that companies like 7sage have to pay the same amount in licensing fees even after pdf downloads were discontinued? If so, how do you know this?

Pacman
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Re: 7sage maintaining price despite no longer offering PTs

Postby Pacman » Sun May 03, 2015 1:00 am

Deleterious wrote:
Pacman wrote:
Deleterious wrote:I realize this is a free country and that businesses can sell their products for whatever price they choose but is anyone else surprised that 7sage hasn't dropped the price of their LSAT prep courses? Students now have to buy questions and PTs separately and, presumably, 7sage no longer has to pay for licensing material they are no longer able to distribute. I've always heard that a big part of the cost of a prep class is the licensing of official materials. Maybe I'm missing something.


It's not surprising at all to those who understand how the system works. What you're missing is the fact that 7Sage IS still paying for licensing materials since there are dozens if not hundreds of questions utilized in the videos within their curriculum. Since they have been paying LSAC for licensing for these videos since their inception they were simply able to give away the PTs and problem sets as their intellectual property had already been purchased. I have seen this griping everywhere and it stems from a complete lack of understanding of how LSAC forces test prep companies to operate and test prep companies are taking way too much flak from whiny kids when they should be railing against LSAC's bullshit policies. This will end up burning LSAC in the long run, but in the meantime anyone with any sense can find any prep tests they want for pretty cheap on amazon and elsewhere.


Hey bud, don't be such an aggressive douche. I'm simply asking a question. Bottom line is that students who take the class now have to spend money for materials which they were previously given for free (and yes I realize they aren't really "free" since the cost is figured into the course fee). I don't think it's reasonable to expect consumers to fully understand the ins-and-outs of licensing these materials, and if prep companies are getting flak then they should explain exactly what is happening and why so that potential customers have all the information.

ETA---are you confirming 100% that companies like 7sage have to pay the same amount in licensing fees even after pdf downloads were discontinued? If so, how do you know this?


Wasn't trying to be a douche, sorry if it came off that way, I just get tired of seeing this line of thinking and it has been all over 7Sage itself since their contract just expired. 7Sage did explain exactly what is happening, though as a customer I'm not sure if potential customers can see their posts or not. If you can see their discussion boards, Jonathan Wang explains everything halfway through this post (there were others earlier but this was the most recently updated post): http://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussio ... he-pdf-ban

As for other companies I don't know how they teach so I couldn't speak to their licensing fees, but since 7Sage was already using copyrighted material in their videos, they had to license those tests if even one question was used, hence why they could dole them out for free so long as they kept them stamped for the specific user to show the licensing proof. Furthermore, the true value of 7Sage was and still is their curriculum, their teaching methodologies and their strategies. With or without PTs 7Sage still represents the best value for your money since they are a fraction of the cost of almost every other prep company out there.

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Deleterious
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Re: 7sage maintaining price despite no longer offering PTs

Postby Deleterious » Sun May 03, 2015 1:04 am

Pacman wrote:
Deleterious wrote:
Pacman wrote:
Deleterious wrote:I realize this is a free country and that businesses can sell their products for whatever price they choose but is anyone else surprised that 7sage hasn't dropped the price of their LSAT prep courses? Students now have to buy questions and PTs separately and, presumably, 7sage no longer has to pay for licensing material they are no longer able to distribute. I've always heard that a big part of the cost of a prep class is the licensing of official materials. Maybe I'm missing something.


It's not surprising at all to those who understand how the system works. What you're missing is the fact that 7Sage IS still paying for licensing materials since there are dozens if not hundreds of questions utilized in the videos within their curriculum. Since they have been paying LSAC for licensing for these videos since their inception they were simply able to give away the PTs and problem sets as their intellectual property had already been purchased. I have seen this griping everywhere and it stems from a complete lack of understanding of how LSAC forces test prep companies to operate and test prep companies are taking way too much flak from whiny kids when they should be railing against LSAC's bullshit policies. This will end up burning LSAC in the long run, but in the meantime anyone with any sense can find any prep tests they want for pretty cheap on amazon and elsewhere.


Hey bud, don't be such an aggressive douche. I'm simply asking a question. Bottom line is that students who take the class now have to spend money for materials which they were previously given for free (and yes I realize they aren't really "free" since the cost is figured into the course fee). I don't think it's reasonable to expect consumers to fully understand the ins-and-outs of licensing these materials, and if prep companies are getting flak then they should explain exactly what is happening and why so that potential customers have all the information.

ETA---are you confirming 100% that companies like 7sage have to pay the same amount in licensing fees even after pdf downloads were discontinued? If so, how do you know this?


Wasn't trying to be a douche, sorry if it came off that way, I just get tired of seeing this line of thinking and it has been all over 7Sage itself since their contract just expired. 7Sage did explain exactly what is happening, though as a customer I'm not sure if potential customers can see their posts or not. If you can see their discussion boards, Jonathan Wang explains everything halfway through this post (there were others earlier but this was the most recently updated post): http://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussio ... he-pdf-ban

As for other companies I don't know how they teach so I couldn't speak to their licensing fees, but since 7Sage was already using copyrighted material in their videos, they had to license those tests if even one question was used, hence why they could dole them out for free so long as they kept them stamped for the specific user to show the licensing proof. Furthermore, the true value of 7Sage was and still is their curriculum, their teaching methodologies and their strategies. With or without PTs 7Sage still represents the best value for your money since they are a fraction of the cost of almost every other prep company out there.


Cool, thanks for the link.

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TheodoreKGB
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Re: 7sage maintaining price despite no longer offering PTs

Postby TheodoreKGB » Sun May 03, 2015 1:44 am

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Last edited by TheodoreKGB on Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pacman
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Re: 7sage maintaining price despite no longer offering PTs

Postby Pacman » Sun May 03, 2015 9:34 am

TheodoreKGB wrote:Bottom line is, the consumer gets considerably less for the same price point. Who gives a damn what 7Sage pays. At this point, they're no better than Velocity/others for the price.


Well if you need the help then you should give a damn what they pay so they can stay in business long enough to teach you and even the ultimate package is a drop in the bucket compared to your legal education so its still a worthwhile investment. Additionally, as I've said before, one could get all the 10 actual PT booklets for like 5 bucks a pop and get the starter pack from 7Sage and still spend less for all of that than one would've previously under the ultimate pack.

Edit: I just looked at the revised descriptions of each package and the only thing different is the number of explanations of PT questions, which most people probably wouldn't need. It basically makes their middle and top packages somewhat pointless since you should be able to reason out why you got a question wrong after checking your answers, so I think they'll see a drop in sales in those packages but you can't beat the starter deal now. So just to get their curriculum at $179 is a steal and then you just have to do the legwork up front to get the PTs. So you could put in a little effort and get all that for under $300 bucks which is still cheaper than Velocity and others.

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LSAT Hacks (Graeme)
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Re: 7sage maintaining price despite no longer offering PTs

Postby LSAT Hacks (Graeme) » Sun May 03, 2015 2:39 pm

Pacman wrote:
TheodoreKGB wrote:Bottom line is, the consumer gets considerably less for the same price point. Who gives a damn what 7Sage pays. At this point, they're no better than Velocity/others for the price.


Well if you need the help then you should give a damn what they pay so they can stay in business long enough to teach you and even the ultimate package is a drop in the bucket compared to your legal education so its still a worthwhile investment. Additionally, as I've said before, one could get all the 10 actual PT booklets for like 5 bucks a pop and get the starter pack from 7Sage and still spend less for all of that than one would've previously under the ultimate pack.


This. They're not a charity. They provide incredible value. With their $179 course alone, you're getting just about everything you'd get in a $1400 classroom course, if not more. That's not to mention the free resources they have that are better than any paid offering.

Those guys are very smart and talented. They don't have to do LSAT prep. They could succeed in 100 different lines of business. Or they could be lawyers.

They're doing this because it pays. They offer incredible value at a cheap price, or free. Yes, you now have to pay a little bit extra to get the materials. It's LSAC you have to thank for that. If you're annoyed by this, write LSAC to tell them what a silly policy they've made. (I do think it's silly, I expect that LSAC is going to increase piracy of their materials by removing legal options)

7Sage could double their prices of their intro course and it would still be a good deal. The ROI of taking their course is probably $20,000-$200,000 or more. There's a lot of cost, time and effort that goes into making and supporting a course like they've made. Those costs haven't changed.

Behind the scenes, 7Sage has continued to make huge improvements to their course and offerings. They've kept the price the same for years while increasing the value of their course, free videos, score analyzer, app, forum, etc. This LSAC change means the course has temporarily lost a bit of value, but I expect them to keep improving it so that students keep getting a better and better deal.

They improve it because there is money in it. I think all of their customers are better off if 7Sage has the financial incentive to continue putting that much effort into the course.

Note: I don't work for them. That was over two years ago. Am mentioning this because some people still think I do. What I wrote above is just my personal opinion.




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