The Official October 2015 Study Group Forum

Mint-Berry_Crunch · Post by **Mint-Berry_Crunch** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:26 pm

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alpha kenny body · Post by **alpha kenny body** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:29 pm

Mint-Berry_Crunch wrote:
PoopNpants wrote:51 days holy shit I'm freaking out
We're fiiiiiinnneeeee guys. Just fine....

It's all about perspective. 50 days sounds more imminent than a month and nearly three weeks.

PoopNpants · Post by **PoopNpants** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:39 pm

fips tedora wrote:
Mint-Berry_Crunch wrote:
PoopNpants wrote:51 days holy shit I'm freaking out
We're fiiiiiinnneeeee guys. Just fine....
It's all about perspective. 50 days sounds more imminent than a month and nearly three weeks.

True.

Still got about over 1200 hours to go, so if I even spend 1/5th of that studying I should be in good shape

Op_Diom · Post by **Op_Diom** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:26 pm

RZ5646 wrote:Regarding study time:

There isn't really any one right answer here. There are people like TLS1776 who study pretty hard for a year and get 180, and other people who study for 3 weeks and get 180 (or close to it). Spending more time studying will improve your score, but you have to ask, when does the marginal benefit of additional study time stops being worth it.

I do think those people who study intensely for a year+ and gain 30+ points are probably somewhat misguided. At some point you're just learning how to game the test instead of developing real-world skills, and you'll have a rude awakening when you get to your dream school and have to compete with people who are probably naturally smarter than you are. If you had to study five times harder than your average classmate just to get into the school, how are you going to do on exams, where you don't have unlimited study time and 3 takes every 2 years?

ETA:
[+] Spoiler
Game 4 on PT 34
is pretty wild... it actually suggests an impossible situation. I caught it, but it definitely confused me for a second and I had to triple check my diagram.

These are utterly baseless claims. How do you 'game' the test precisely? If one has the ability to score in the high 170's given any amount of time, he or she is intelligent enough to attend any school he gains admission to. You incorrectly presume 'more time prepping = more intense prepping'.

Furthermore, the LSAT tests a very narrow set of skills, and requires a specific mental approach for all of its questions. Hence, if one is not well versed in these necessary approaches or lack the essential skills due to being unfamiliar with such material beforehand, then it would seem he or she would require more time for rewiring their outlooks, especially if he decided not to 'intensely' prep over the course of that period. However, the lacking of the aforementioned requirements for excelling at the LSAT in a short period of time wouldn't necessitate that that individual is less deserving nor not as intelligent as any other person who scores near to their range. Yet, I would say that the resulting consequences of ones score is a sufficient measurement of their raw intellectual ability given the fact that LSAC doesn't limit studying time nor numbers of allowable takes (in an absolute sense). Also, given the fact that admissions officers are unlikely to reject an applicant's high score despite an attached note proclaiming 'applicant prepped for 1+ year', I would say that your series of statements are nothing more than mere opinion. (By the way, the LSAT doesn't care for opinions either; trying to pass them off as facts must not be a part of 'real-world' skills)

pittsburghpirates · Post by **pittsburghpirates** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:33 pm

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ariaaaa · Post by **ariaaaa** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:48 pm

CONDITIONAL GROUPING GAMES ARE THE WORST.

Finally took a properly timed PT yesterday, scored a 168. Pretty disappointed since I was really hoping to break 170 but I went -6 on the LG section. -1 on the first LR and -5 on the second with a -3 on RC.

I feel like my biggest issue is that I get tired and I hate grouping games, so way more drilling and endurance work is in order.

redfred22 · Post by **redfred22** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:19 pm

ariaaaa wrote:CONDITIONAL GROUPING GAMES ARE THE WORST.

Finally took a properly timed PT yesterday, scored a 168. Pretty disappointed since I was really hoping to break 170 but I went -6 on the LG section. -1 on the first LR and -5 on the second with a -3 on RC.

I feel like my biggest issue is that I get tired and I hate grouping games, so way more drilling and endurance work is in order.

What's your approach to grouping games with conditionals? 7Sage or something else? I find that the way JY Ping taught me through 7Sage is a great way. Just draw two columns, one with a check mark for "in" at the top, and another with an X mark for "out" at the top. Then, assuming your drew your conditionals out correctly, just follow your conditional tree. Anything that doesn't matter are floaters pending open spots, then you can break it down per question a couple different game boards. Also, depending on a rule, you can break your game board down at the beginning. You got this!

gamerish · Post by **gamerish** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:30 pm

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PoopNpants · Post by **PoopNpants** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:47 pm

gamerish wrote:
PoopNpants wrote:51 days holy shit I'm freaking out
Hit me yesterday. Studying like a maniac before school starts.

Just finished my second run through the In/Out games pack. Doing it again next week.

Re-doing the Strengthen, Necessary Assumption, Complex Ordering and hopefully the Grouping Distribution packets this week and PT 39 on Monday.

I feel your pain dog. I'm lucky I got nothing besides the LSAT going on in my life. can't imagine juggling coursework with intense LSAT prep

ariaaaa · Post by **ariaaaa** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:59 pm

redfred22 wrote:
ariaaaa wrote:CONDITIONAL GROUPING GAMES ARE THE WORST.

Finally took a properly timed PT yesterday, scored a 168. Pretty disappointed since I was really hoping to break 170 but I went -6 on the LG section. -1 on the first LR and -5 on the second with a -3 on RC.

I feel like my biggest issue is that I get tired and I hate grouping games, so way more drilling and endurance work is in order.
What's your approach to grouping games with conditionals? 7Sage or something else? I find that the way JY Ping taught me through 7Sage is a great way. Just draw two columns, one with a check mark for "in" at the top, and another with an X mark for "out" at the top. Then, assuming your drew your conditionals out correctly, just follow your conditional tree. Anything that doesn't matter are floaters pending open spots, then you can break it down per question a couple different game boards. Also, depending on a rule, you can break your game board down at the beginning. You got this!

I've been attempting to use the in and out tree approach but I feel like i keep confusing myself. I forgot about the videos though, i'll definitely check them out! Thankssss

RZ5646 · Post by **RZ5646** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:15 pm

Finally encountered the notorious snakes and lizards game and surprisingly I think I did alright: -0 in 8:18.

ltowns1 · Post by **ltowns1** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:34 pm

I feel like the LSAT Is starting to become one big game of quicksand. Focusing on comprehension is really, really key! Rushing to get to the answers before having an adequate understanding of the stimulus, passage, rules/diagrams will lead you to inadequate scores and under performance. For example, toady instead of half way understanding the logic in explanation questions and rushing to the answer choices, I drilled a few explanation questions with the intention of fully understanding everything that was goin on In the stimulus. When I did that the answers became fairly obvious to me. Games for the most part require you to spend a good amount of time on the diagram, and make the upfront inferences that can be made. What have I done in the past? I became frantic when 2 or 3 minutes had passed and I still was trying to understand a particular rule, instead of taking my time and figuring out what needs to happen for that particular game. Of course, RC is all about making sure you're fully comprehending what you read. No that does not mean understating every little word in the passage, but it does mean understanding the passage well enough to know how each paragraph works in combination with each other. As logical as all of this sounds,it can be kinda hard to really appreciate this, especially when you're so worried about the element of time. However when you do consider this, I think the LSAT becomes much easier to take on.

somethingElse · Post by **somethingElse** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:06 pm

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pterodactyls · Post by **pterodactyls** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:14 pm

RC has been my worst section so far. I read the LRB and LGB, but nothing for RC, so maybe that's why. Ordered the Manhattan RC book after comparing reviews with powerscore RCB.

Read the first two chapters so far - I think this is exactly what I needed. Breaks it down into a structure and tells me what to read for. Makes reading the passages more interesting. I think that's been my problem so far is I just find them boring and zone out.

Also been drilling LG every day. I bought the five "10 Actual LSATs" books and made several copies of each game from them. So now I have stacks of games and I just take ~30 in my bag each day and do them whenever I have time.

Dexter97 · Post by **Dexter97** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:46 pm

somethingelse55 wrote:Makes sense to me, towns! And nice job RZ, that is definitely one of my least favorite games, personally. I've done it twice now though so I have a decent handle on it at this point anyway.

So I used up one of my 10 remaining fresh PTs yesterday (55) and graded it today...

(Sections in Order)
LR1: -5 (yikes)
RC: -0
LG1 (experimental, PT 45's LG): -0
LR2: -1
LG2: -2

171

I'm hoping that LR score is partially due to not warming up adequately...I corrected all of them except one (that I didn't circle ) from that section and relatively easily at that.

Which leads me to ask, how do you all warmup before a PT? I'm thinking I might redo the first 10 and last 5 of a previous LR section at full speed, one game, and one passage.

Just did PT 55 too!

That last game sucked!!!!

RZ5646 · Post by **RZ5646** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:50 pm

somethingelse55 wrote:Makes sense to me, towns! And nice job RZ, that is definitely one of my least favorite games, personally. I've done it twice now though so I have a decent handle on it at this point anyway.

So I used up one of my 10 remaining fresh PTs yesterday (55) and graded it today...

(Sections in Order)
LR1: -5 (yikes)
RC: -0
LG1 (experimental, PT 45's LG): -0
LR2: -1
LG2: -2

171

I'm hoping that LR score is partially due to not warming up adequately...I corrected all of them except one (that I didn't circle ) from that section and relatively easily at that.

Which leads me to ask, how do you all warmup before a PT? I'm thinking I might redo the first 10 and last 5 of a previous LR section at full speed, one game, and one passage.

Thanks, and I've also noticed that my first LR is usually worse and I do think warming up could help with that. I was actually just thinking about this, and I'm going to try warming up with some easy questions from each section: the first 10-15 from an LR, the first 1-2 games, and the first 1-2 passages of an RC section. That should get me into an LSAT mindset.

Mint-Berry_Crunch · Post by **Mint-Berry_Crunch** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:57 pm

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PatriotP74 · Post by **PatriotP74** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:12 pm

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RZ5646 · Post by **RZ5646** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:57 pm

I've reached the point where I'm doing logic games before bed instead of watching Netflix, but not because I'm a great student, but because I've already watched everything good on Netflix haha

ltowns1 · Post by **ltowns1** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:43 am

pterodactyls wrote:RC has been my worst section so far. I read the LRB and LGB, but nothing for RC, so maybe that's why. Ordered the Manhattan RC book after comparing reviews with powerscore RCB.

Read the first two chapters so far - I think this is exactly what I needed. Breaks it down into a structure and tells me what to read for. Makes reading the passages more interesting. I think that's been my problem so far is I just find them boring and zone out.

Also been drilling LG every day. I bought the five "10 Actual LSATs" books and made several copies of each game from them. So now I have stacks of games and I just take ~30 in my bag each day and do them whenever I have time.

Manhattan RC is great in my opinion

sanibella · Post by **sanibella** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:57 am

Mint-Berry_Crunch wrote:
dominicanguy12 wrote:
sanibella wrote:
darthrevan92 wrote:For the people PT-ing in the 170s, are these fresh exams that you guys are taking or those that you have taken previously in during your studies?
Fresh PTs for me. Past five have been 177, 178, 177, 175, 175- a jump from the 171 immediately prior.
How the hell do people even get to this point
That reminds me.
Sanibella, any hints on how you've made that jump? Did you make an offering to Cthulhu? If so what creature?

Assuming you're asking about the 171 to upper 170s jumps, I will give you a really brief explanation so not to clog up the thread. If you want any elaboration, let me know.

Short answer: there was about thirty-forty solid hours of drilling/blind reviewing/writing up strategy guides between the tests.
Long answer: A couple things that were beneficial:
1. I had a clear strategy going into every type of Logical Reasoning question. So for instance, when I saw a strengthen question type, after identifying the premise/conclusion I would say to myself before moving to the answer choices that I was looking for an answer that would eliminate other possibilities, show that without the cause the effect was absent, etc. Having a clear thought process for each type of Logical Reasoning question really simplified everything. If I didn't have a 100% clear strategy for a question type, I would make note on an index card and develop a strategy after the test. I also developed my own LR BR templates that I can share with anyone who would like them.
2. I forced myself to be confident and bolder on the test. At the gentle, loving suggestion from my Mom when I got -3 wrong on a LR section to "get over my obsessiveness while taking the test" I decided that once I had eliminated wrong ACs and picked one that was right, to just move on and stop worrying about "well, maybe it COULD'VE been this one". I also crossed off the question number in a "triumphant way" every time I had finished a question to give myself a psychological boost as well. I tried this out for a couple of LR sections to make sure that going with my gut and moving on really was a good idea, and I ended up getting all the LR questions right for the next three sections.
3. This led me to the mentality I am current using to test- relax and simplify. I now see the LR questions like math word problems. When you translate a math word problem, you are looking at the skeleton of the question, not all the extraneous information. I approach LR like that now as well, often using variables in my head instead of names. I also "relaxed into" the test. I let myself feel calm and confident and stop and do some deep breathing if necessary. I always finish early now, even if I take a couple twenty or thirty second breaks to let myself breathe and relax.

TL;DR- Clear strategy for each LR type, developed strategies to be more confident and relaxed during test

Mint-Berry_Crunch · Post by **Mint-Berry_Crunch** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:27 am

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RZ5646 · Post by **RZ5646** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 3:10 pm

Pattern games are the worst.

pittsburghpirates · Post by **pittsburghpirates** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 3:12 pm

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Mint-Berry_Crunch · Post by **Mint-Berry_Crunch** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 3:37 pm

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