The Official October 2015 Study Group Forum

gamerish · Post by **gamerish** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:04 am

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Tiddlywinks · Post by **Tiddlywinks** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:20 am

So retaking for the third and final time in Oct. 160 June 2013 (used Princeton Review book only), and then 162 June 2014 (LG bible and Manhatten LR). Past 5 tests have been 173 (retake), 169, 162, 170, and last test 164.
Not sure what to really think at the moment with less then a month till the test. Constantly running out of time with a few problems left in LR and RC especially. LG have always been easy with me -0 to -2 max (random mistakes). My goals 168+ for T14 with decent money... But pushing back to Dec seems like I'd be cutting it close to losing out on a lot of scholly money.
Not sure what I can do to stop the bleeding of inconsistenty that is RC. I got -6 on the June test, but I usually average -8+... For example last test, Prep Test 66- -12 RC, -2 LG, - 5 LR. 164. I guess the whole point of this wall of text is... Any chance of drastic improvement with RC? I read for structure, understand point of views etc, just the inferences derived from the passages just go right past me under timed conditions. Halp haha

mist4bison · Post by **mist4bison** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:03 am

Tiddlywinks wrote:So retaking for the third and final time in Oct. 160 June 2013 (used Princeton Review book only), and then 162 June 2014 (LG bible and Manhatten LR). Past 5 tests have been 173 (retake), 169, 162, 170, and last test 164.
Not sure what to really think at the moment with less then a month till the test. Constantly running out of time with a few problems left in LR and RC especially. LG have always been easy with me -0 to -2 max (random mistakes). My goals 168+ for T14 with decent money... But pushing back to Dec seems like I'd be cutting it close to losing out on a lot of scholly money.
Not sure what I can do to stop the bleeding of inconsistenty that is RC. I got -6 on the June test, but I usually average -8+... For example last test, Prep Test 66- -12 RC, -2 LG, - 5 LR. 164. I guess the whole point of this wall of text is... Any chance of drastic improvement with RC? I read for structure, understand point of views etc, just the inferences derived from the passages just go right past me under timed conditions. Halp haha

Have you drilled RC passages untimed? Can you drill and go -0 to maybe -1 on a passage? If not, I'd recommend the Manhattan RC book. Helped me with fundamentals.

If your issue is purely timing, I have two suggestions.
1) do "suicides." Basically do a few sections and give yourself 45 mins to complete each. Then 42. Then 40. Then 39. Etc.
2) Don't speed through. It's better to miss 5 questions in one passage you never read than 12 because you were trying to speed through. If I'm running low on time, I read all but the comparative passage. If I have enough time to finish it, awesome. If not, I quickly scan which passage is discussed in more questions and read only that one and those questions.

Tiddlywinks · Post by **Tiddlywinks** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:41 am

mist4bison wrote:
Tiddlywinks wrote:So retaking for the third and final time in Oct. 160 June 2013 (used Princeton Review book only), and then 162 June 2014 (LG bible and Manhatten LR). Past 5 tests have been 173 (retake), 169, 162, 170, and last test 164.
Not sure what to really think at the moment with less then a month till the test. Constantly running out of time with a few problems left in LR and RC especially. LG have always been easy with me -0 to -2 max (random mistakes). My goals 168+ for T14 with decent money... But pushing back to Dec seems like I'd be cutting it close to losing out on a lot of scholly money.
Not sure what I can do to stop the bleeding of inconsistenty that is RC. I got -6 on the June test, but I usually average -8+... For example last test, Prep Test 66- -12 RC, -2 LG, - 5 LR. 164. I guess the whole point of this wall of text is... Any chance of drastic improvement with RC? I read for structure, understand point of views etc, just the inferences derived from the passages just go right past me under timed conditions. Halp haha
Have you drilled RC passages untimed? Can you drill and go -0 to maybe -1 on a passage? If not, I'd recommend the Manhattan RC book. Helped me with fundamentals.

If your issue is purely timing, I have two suggestions.
1) do "suicides." Basically do a few sections and give yourself 45 mins to complete each. Then 42. Then 40. Then 39. Etc.
2) Don't speed through. It's better to miss 5 questions in one passage you never read than 12 because you were trying to speed through. If I'm running low on time, I read all but the comparative passage. If I have enough time to finish it, awesome. If not, I quickly scan which passage is discussed in more questions and read only that one and those questions.

Yeah when I drill I usually time sections and finish around 8-9 mins missing 0-1 questions. The new ones are just a lot harder for me... I think it might be best just to skip one completely but it's hard for me to accept it

Nagster5 · Post by **Nagster5** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:55 am

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somethingElse · Post by **somethingElse** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:00 am

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redfred22 · Post by **redfred22** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:48 am

PatriotP74 wrote:PT 46 163

RC: -5
LR: -6
LR: -6
LG: -0

Seeing that RC was awesome, been averaging -10+ so felt good to see that, took a new approach and focused on each of the first 3 passages for 10 minutes each and then just skimmed and guessed on the last passage.

LR I just don't know, I'm all over the board on it and no real specific weakness, considering going through either the trainer again or the Manhattan LR book. Out of those 12 missed, 4 came before question 10 (2 on each section) and including those 6 came at 15 or before. Maybe the easy ones are too easy???? Right now my goal score is a 166-168 for October (trying to be realistic)

LG felt awesome, had 15 minutes left by the time I got to game 4 and finished it in 10. If I pull off these numbers for LG and RC on game day I will be happy. Just gotta focus on LR from here on out.

Didn't take this all in one sitting, and damn did I have some of the biggest, most annoying distractions.... But I did three sections timed one day and then one section timed the next day. My RC has been hovering around -6 to -8 with a few -4 and -5 but not many. Went -4 on PT46 RC. Idk if it was because it was just easier or what, but I have been trying different strategies to see what works best for me.

LR I went -3 and -2, respectively. and LG was very good -0. Overall thought the test was pretty easy, still only got a 170 because of the curve. Couple of stupid mistakes on LR hurt me. Which LR questions did you have issues with? I'd be willing to go over some of them with you if you'd like. I've been averaging around -2 to -3 on LR over the past 8 to 10 sections I've taken.

If I could have this type of performance on October 3, I'd be ecstatic. I've been missing at most 15 questions and at the least 9 so I'm hoping that bodes well for October. Really hoping there isn't anything too curve-balley that they throw at us. And I'm really hoping that come test day I can get those LR scores to -1 to -0 and RC to a consistent -5 or less.

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:14 am

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Billy Madison · Post by **Billy Madison** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:59 am

Made the mistake of taking PT59 last night around 10pm after a day of classes and a few hours worth of homework. Scored a 161 with LG -7 (actually my best thus far, only missed the questions I couldn't finish), LR1 -8

, LR2 -3, and RC -8 (I think). I definitely crashed in RC due to fatigue, but had I not botched LR1, my score would've be a modest improvement from last week. Anyone else find that section especially tough? If I had similarly struggled with LR2, I'd write it off as fatigue...Maybe LR2 was just a lot easier.

alpha kenny body · Post by **alpha kenny body** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:03 am

LR is strangely giving me the most problems now, consistently. It's always between the two that I am considering. This is annoying. I would love to consistently hit the 170's in the next few weeks. I'm not sure what to do.

Mint-Berry_Crunch · Post by **Mint-Berry_Crunch** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:22 am

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Mint-Berry_Crunch · Post by **Mint-Berry_Crunch** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:33 am

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Mint-Berry_Crunch · Post by **Mint-Berry_Crunch** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:02 pm

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Billy Madison · Post by **Billy Madison** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:16 pm

Mint-Berry_Crunch wrote:
gunton224 wrote:Made the mistake of taking PT59 last night around 10pm after a day of classes and a few hours worth of homework. Scored a 161 with LG -7 (actually my best thus far, only missed the questions I couldn't finish), LR1 -8 , LR2 -3, and RC -8 (I think). I definitely crashed in RC due to fatigue, but had I not botched LR1, my score would've be a modest improvement from last week. Anyone else find that section especially tough? If I had similarly struggled with LR2, I'd write it off as fatigue...Maybe LR2 was just a lot easier.
Yeah the few PTs I've taken late at night have been substantially worse than normal for me. Weirdly, the earlier in the day I take them the better, even if I'm still groggy/ barely awake.

Should work well with that 8am exam time!

appind · Post by **appind** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:14 pm

so i have two lsat scores from earlier takes and am trying to decide if i should go ahead and take the Oct test or wait. i only have about 2-3 PTs of all the released ones that I have never seen before and are therefore fully fresh for getting an accurate diagnosis of where i stand. many other recent PTs I have retaken multiple times so i don't think i really believe the scores i am getting on them.

i took PT-72 only during my last actual lsat administration and haven't looked at it or discussed it since. when i take it now i would still know in the back of my head that so and so parts of the test or the X passage were tough during the actual administration and therefore scores will be inflated and not representative. i was thinking if i should decide on Oct take by taking 72 and if don't score a good chunk of points above the target then not take october, so i can save the rare fresh ones for a last take. interested to know if someone in a similar position tried this.

e: typo

Judgeasaurus_Rex · Post by **Judgeasaurus_Rex** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:30 pm

mist4bison wrote:
Tiddlywinks wrote:So retaking for the third and final time in Oct. 160 June 2013 (used Princeton Review book only), and then 162 June 2014 (LG bible and Manhatten LR). Past 5 tests have been 173 (retake), 169, 162, 170, and last test 164.
Not sure what to really think at the moment with less then a month till the test. Constantly running out of time with a few problems left in LR and RC especially. LG have always been easy with me -0 to -2 max (random mistakes). My goals 168+ for T14 with decent money... But pushing back to Dec seems like I'd be cutting it close to losing out on a lot of scholly money.
Not sure what I can do to stop the bleeding of inconsistenty that is RC. I got -6 on the June test, but I usually average -8+... For example last test, Prep Test 66- -12 RC, -2 LG, - 5 LR. 164. I guess the whole point of this wall of text is... Any chance of drastic improvement with RC? I read for structure, understand point of views etc, just the inferences derived from the passages just go right past me under timed conditions. Halp haha
Have you drilled RC passages untimed? Can you drill and go -0 to maybe -1 on a passage? If not, I'd recommend the Manhattan RC book. Helped me with fundamentals.

If your issue is purely timing, I have two suggestions.
1) do "suicides." Basically do a few sections and give yourself 45 mins to complete each. Then 42. Then 40. Then 39. Etc.
2) Don't speed through. It's better to miss 5 questions in one passage you never read than 12 because you were trying to speed through. If I'm running low on time, I read all but the comparative passage. If I have enough time to finish it, awesome. If not, I quickly scan which passage is discussed in more questions and read only that one and those questions.

I agree with the first part of what you said here. I do, however, think it is a good idea to do the comparative passages if you are running out of time. This is the case because many of the questions will require you to only know the information in one of the passages (which is half the length of a full one). This can be key to squeeze out a few more points out of an RC section if you are running out of time.

Judgeasaurus_Rex · Post by **Judgeasaurus_Rex** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:32 pm

mornincounselor wrote:I went -5 total on the third Indian LSAT. 52 total LR questions with 5 choices each, 26 RC questions with 4 choices each and 22 LG questions with four choices each.

LG (-0, -1, -0, -0)
LR 1 -3 (5, 17, 24)
RC -0
LR 2 -1 (19)

For the record I feel that only having four choices makes RC much easier but having only four choices in LG doesn't affect the difficulty much. Perhaps, the two replacement-equivalency made up the difficulty.

How helpful do you find those tests to be? I'm curious since many users on the forum have discouraged me from using them in the past.

Nagster5 · Post by **Nagster5** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:56 pm

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pterodactyls · Post by **pterodactyls** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:10 pm

I agree on drilling for RC.

Go to a copy machine, make copies of the RC sections from 20 or so tests (can double-side each passage so that all the questions are on one physical page). Shuffle them like a deck of cards. Then just do them one at a time. Don't give yourself a time limit, but do time yourself and write how long it took you at the top of each sheet.

May start by taking 25 minutes/each to be confident in all answers, but after you do 20-30 your timing should come down quick. Practice makes perfect, and you will start to pick up on patterns.

Also, I read Manhattan RC guide and that seemed to help me a bit.

fishpaste1 · Post by **fishpaste1** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:12 pm

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Monkey D Luffy · Post by **Monkey D Luffy** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:29 pm

pterodactyls wrote:I agree on drilling for RC.

Go to a copy machine, make copies of the RC sections from 20 or so tests (can double-side each passage so that all the questions are on one physical page). Shuffle them like a deck of cards. Then just do them one at a time. Don't give yourself a time limit, but do time yourself and write how long it took you at the top of each sheet.

May start by taking 25 minutes/each to be confident in all answers, but after you do 20-30 your timing should come down quick. Practice makes perfect, and you will start to pick up on patterns.

Also, I read Manhattan RC guide and that seemed to help me a bit.

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to try give that a shot.

Rek2818 · Post by **Rek2818** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:11 pm

I've read a lot about people having RC problems in the last few pages of this thread and I have been experiencing some difficulty with consistency and progression in accuracy myself. It seems like I can never break -5 on RC, and there will be an occasional passage (i.e, PT 71, Sec 4, Passage 4 - Perception of Mirrors...it sucks) that I simply bomb, thus ending up going -8/-9, and turning what would be a solid PT score into an average PT score.

I'm going to give 7Sage's Memory Method a go tomorrow. Also, I checked out the 12 most recent circulations of The Economist for their Science & Tech section. I've read through about two issues and the writing prose is very similar to the RC passages on the LSAT. I think it would be heavily beneficial to read as a warm-up for a PT. Other than mist4bison's helpful tips recently given, anyone have thoughts?

Also, anyone anticipating a Misc. game appearing on game day? I believe the June 2014 had a Circular Reasoning Game and one of the recent February tests had a Misc game as well. It seems that from roughly PT 70 to PT 75 the LSAT Makers throw in one game that is just inherently difficult to solve, especially when one is running tight on time. I am still haunted by the Rugs and Threads game when I took the LSAT last December...terrible to bomb a game on the first section of the actual test.

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:31 pm

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Judgeasaurus_Rex · Post by **Judgeasaurus_Rex** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:19 pm

mornincounselor wrote:
Judgeasaurus_Rex wrote:
mornincounselor wrote:I went -5 total on the third Indian LSAT. 52 total LR questions with 5 choices each, 26 RC questions with 4 choices each and 22 LG questions with four choices each.

LG (-0, -1, -0, -0)
LR 1 -3 (5, 17, 24)
RC -0
LR 2 -1 (19)

For the record I feel that only having four choices makes RC much easier but having only four choices in LG doesn't affect the difficulty much. Perhaps, the two replacement-equivalency made up the difficulty.
How helpful do you find those tests to be? I'm curious since many users on the forum have discouraged me from using them in the past.
If I had more US preptests available to me I would use those for sure. But, if we are comparing one of these tests (which as far as I know are produced by LSAC and are intended to test students in the same way the US LSAT does) to redoing a prep test I've been through multiple times already, the Indian LSAT is more useful. Especially for RC it is very very difficult to do old sections without having particular words jump out at you ("draconian" comes to mind). So I began using the RC from these tests are experimentals during my prep tests. The LR sections are pretty representative of older US PTs (for example there are many two-part questions) and I find the LG to be fine practice sections as well (some even testing some rule combinations I haven't seen on any US tests yet).

These tests are not first on the list of test material but they are better than the artificial Manhattan games or turning to GRE passages or magazines for RC material.

That is very good advice. Thanks!

I'll look into using them as experimental sections perhaps.

flash21 · Post by **flash21** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:13 pm

I honestly go into RC with FEAR. have been drilling a lot lately and have improved but always scared I'm going to get a sleeper killer RC section and get a -13 or something