Do you guys check your rules??

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ltowns1
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Do you guys check your rules??

Postby ltowns1 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:03 am

Just wondering do you guys go back and check all your rules before answering an individual question, (meaning once you've looked at rules, and did your master diagram, do you go back and make sure you covered all your rules) or do you trust that your hypothetical is correct?
Last edited by ltowns1 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ben Reilly
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Re: Do you guys check your rules??

Postby Ben Reilly » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:52 pm

You'll probably get more responses in the LSAT prep section.

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Oskosh
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Re: Do you guys check your rules??

Postby Oskosh » Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:17 pm

Most of the users here are in the process of applying to law school, so you probably won't get as many answers as you would in the prep forum (as stated above). However, when I was preparing for my LSAT I would read over the rules quickly but thoroughly, would attempt to find those that are connected, and begin diagramming. So essentially I would be reading the rules twice. You really don't have a chance to be looking over the rules. You must diagram them correctly. If you are experiencing difficulties with this, then you need to practice diagramming. I don't mean that as a slight, but that is a basic skill that you need to master so that when you need rules your writing of them becomes automatic. You must also be consistent with how you write out your rules. In other words, don't have two short hands for the same thing, as you could end up using them in one game, and end up becoming confused. Hope this helped lol.

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ltowns1
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Re: Do you guys check your rules??

Postby ltowns1 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:25 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:You'll probably get more responses in the LSAT prep section.


Yeah thanks, I didn't realize I posted it here until now, thanks Ya!

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Do you guys check your rules??

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:27 pm

Moved to the LSAT forum.

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ltowns1
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Re: Do you guys check your rules??

Postby ltowns1 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:29 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Moved to the LSAT forum.


Thanks

Hat Trick
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Re: Do you guys check your rules??

Postby Hat Trick » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:49 pm

I would usually read the rules at least three times before I started answering the individual questions. (And by the time I finished reading the first question, I would have read the rules four times.) Before I started to draw a diagram, I would read the scenario and quickly scan the rules to get a sense of which diagram would best represent the set-up. I would then go back through the scenario and rules while diagramming them. I would then go back through the rules for a third time to make sure that I (a) did not miss any rules and (b) diagrammed all of the rules correctly. And, of course, I would go back to the rules to answer the first question of each game. So by the time I finished answering the first question, I would have read the scenario twice and the rules four times.

Edited to add: Sure it probably took me an extra 20 seconds; but the cost of missing a rule/ diagramming a rule incorrectly is so huge and I missed rules/ improperly diagrammed a rule so often that it was worth the extra 20 seconds to make sure that I got it right.

For what it's worth, I was perfect in games on the LSAT, as well as about 19 of the 20 prep tests I took leading up to the LSAT.

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Jeffort
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Re: Do you guys check your rules??

Postby Jeffort » Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:50 am

Hat Trick wrote:I would usually read the rules at least three times before I started answering the individual questions. (And by the time I finished reading the first question, I would have read the rules four times.) Before I started to draw a diagram, I would read the scenario and quickly scan the rules to get a sense of which diagram would best represent the set-up. I would then go back through the scenario and rules while diagramming them. I would then go back through the rules for a third time to make sure that I (a) did not miss any rules and (b) diagrammed all of the rules correctly. And, of course, I would go back to the rules to answer the first question of each game. So by the time I finished answering the first question, I would have read the scenario twice and the rules four times.

Edited to add: Sure it probably took me an extra 20 seconds; but the cost of missing a rule/ diagramming a rule incorrectly is so huge and I missed rules/ improperly diagrammed a rule so often that it was worth the extra 20 seconds to make sure that I got it right.

For what it's worth, I was perfect in games on the LSAT, as well as about 19 of the 20 prep tests I took leading up to the LSAT.


This^ is the CR.

Including verification steps of the rules/conditions (of your reading of the exact sentences -word for word- no skimming/speed reading, interpretation and corresponding diagrams of them) and your overall set-up diagram(s) in your approach while initially reading the game stimulus + indented rules and creating your master set-up diagram for each game before diving into the questions is super important for consistent high accuracy LG performance under the high pressure real test day testing conditions. You want to burn doing the verification steps into your habits of things you ALWAYS do with EVERY game.

When moving really fast under test day conditions combined with the extra stress and pressure you're under on actual test day, it's really easy to make careless mistakes/oversights/reading errors and/or to misinterpret/incorrectly diagram rules that are intentionally phrased by the test writers in ways that are easily susceptible to misreading/misinterpretation/misdiagramming/overlooking a single word like 'not' that's put several words into the sentence in lowercase/etc..

So, to help insure LG section success on test-day you should build verification steps into your habits and approach since just ONE single incorrectly diagrammed rule can ruin an entire game and cost you up to 6 or 7 points!

Since a healthy level of misdiagramming/rule misinterpretation/rule oversight fear and/or paranoia can be a positive motivator for making sure you don't let timing and test day pressure (or overconfidence) cause you to cut corners on test day, I have a relevant on point case I'll share that illustrates the significant importance of religiously verifying the rules/conditions and your diagrams up-front before diving into the questions.

A student I tutored that took the December test made ONE simple careless diagramming mistake on the fourth game and it cost her six of the seven points/questions on the game, ending up with a 168 instead of a 173!

The last indented rule of the game is a conditional rule with a negative sufficient condition (If K is not assigned to the... then...).

When diagramming the rule she didn't put a slash through the sufficient condition (she doesn't remember if she misread the rule and overlooked the word 'not' that is printed in lowercase or if she just mistakenly failed to put a slash through the sufficient condition when diagramming it) and didn't catch that simple error until she got to the last question which was an equivalent rule substitution question for the rule she had mistakenly diagrammed, causing her to realize her mistake with less than two minutes left! She only had enough time left to re-do the first of the seven questions to change her answer and get the list question correct to get that one out of the seven points before time was called and missed the other six since the questions in the game are deviously setup so that if you make that particular diagramming/reading error with that rule, applying it will make you eliminate the CR on almost all of the questions on first superficial pass through the answers just applying the basic rules before you need to dig deeper and use deductions or make a hypo to get far enough to think you've figured out enough to select an answer, essentially boxing you into a corner with the CR eliminated right out of the gate due to applying the incorrect version of that rule!

She was solidly consistent -0/-1 on LGs on her PTs (partly because of being really careful with verification steps and making sure she really got the set-up correct before diving into the questions!) but got a bit cocky on that last game and decided to skip doing her normal verification steps!

She ended up with a 168 instead of a 173 due to that ONE careless error that happened because she let haste and LGs arrogance influence her to skip doing the 15-20 seconds rule verification steps!

Luckily her cycle is going well and she's already got several T14 (including one T5 so far) acceptances in the bag partly due to her perfect GPA with a double major and lots of strong soft factors, but those six points from that one careless easily preventable mistake are probably going to end up costing her some scholly$$ options she would have otherwise had with a 173 instead of 168 and will hurt her chances at HYS, but only time will tell with all that as she waits out the cycle for more decisions to come in to see what all her options end up being. Believe me when I tell you that that single mistake has been on her mind haunting her EVERY DAY since the December test!
Last edited by Jeffort on Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Clearly
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Re: Do you guys check your rules??

Postby Clearly » Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:18 am

Nope, although I suppose I did early on. You get to the point where once is enough, and then usually doing the first question you'd check them over by the nature of elimination questions.

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ltowns1
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Re: Do you guys check your rules??

Postby ltowns1 » Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:05 am

Jeffort wrote:
Hat Trick wrote:I would usually read the rules at least three times before I started answering the individual questions. (And by the time I finished reading the first question, I would have read the rules four times.) Before I started to draw a diagram, I would read the scenario and quickly scan the rules to get a sense of which diagram would best represent the set-up. I would then go back through the scenario and rules while diagramming them. I would then go back through the rules for a third time to make sure that I (a) did not miss any rules and (b) diagrammed all of the rules correctly. And, of course, I would go back to the rules to answer the first question of each game. So by the time I finished answering the first question, I would have read the scenario twice and the rules four times.

Edited to add: Sure it probably took me an extra 20 seconds; but the cost of missing a rule/ diagramming a rule incorrectly is so huge and I missed rules/ improperly diagrammed a rule so often that it was worth the extra 20 seconds to make sure that I got it right.

For what it's worth, I was perfect in games on the LSAT, as well as about 19 of the 20 prep tests I took leading up to the LSAT.


This^ is the CR.

Including verification steps of the rules/conditions (of your reading of the exact sentences -word for word- no skimming/speed reading, interpretation and corresponding diagrams of them) and your overall set-up diagram(s) in your approach while initially reading the game stimulus + indented rules and creating your master set-up diagram for each game before diving into the questions is super important for consistent high accuracy LG performance under the high pressure real test day testing conditions. You want to burn doing the verification steps into your habits of things you ALWAYS do with EVERY game.

When moving really fast under test day conditions combined with the extra stress and pressure you're under on actual test day, it's really easy to make careless mistakes/oversights/reading errors and/or to misinterpret/incorrectly diagram rules that are intentionally phrased by the test writers in ways that are easily susceptible to misreading/misinterpretation/misdiagramming/overlooking a single word like 'not' that's put several words into the sentence in lowercase/etc..

So, to help insure LG section success on test-day you should build verification steps into your habits and approach since just ONE single incorrectly diagrammed rule can ruin an entire game and cost you up to 6 or 7 points!

Since a healthy level of misdiagramming/rule misinterpretation/rule oversight fear and/or paranoia can be a positive motivator for making sure you don't let timing and test day pressure (or overconfidence) cause you to cut corners on test day, I have a relevant on point case I'll share that illustrates the significant importance of religiously verifying the rules/conditions and your diagrams up-front before diving into the questions.

A student I tutored that took the December test made ONE simple careless diagramming mistake on the fourth game and it cost her six of the seven points/questions on the game, ending up with a 168 instead of a 173!

The last indented rule of the game is a conditional rule with a negative sufficient condition (If K is not assigned to the... then...).

When diagramming the rule she didn't put a slash through the sufficient condition (she doesn't remember if she misread the rule and overlooked the word 'not' that is printed in lowercase or if she just mistakenly failed to put a slash through the sufficient condition when diagramming it) and didn't catch that simple error until she got to the last question which was an equivalent rule substitution question for the rule she had mistakenly diagrammed, causing her to realize her mistake with less than two minutes left! She only had enough time left to re-do the first of the seven questions to change her answer and get the list question correct to get that one out of the seven points before time was called and missed the other six since the questions in the game are deviously setup so that if you make that particular diagramming/reading error with that rule, applying it will make you eliminate the CR on almost all of the questions on first superficial pass through the answers just applying the basic rules before you need to dig deeper and use deductions or make a hypo to get far enough to think you've figured out enough to select an answer, essentially boxing you into a corner with the CR eliminated right out of the gate due to applying the incorrect version of that rule!

She was solidly consistent -0/-1 on LGs on her PTs (partly because of being really careful with verification steps and making sure she really got the set-up correct before diving into the questions!) but got a bit cocky on that last game and decided to skip doing her normal verification steps!

She ended up with a 168 instead of a 173 due to that ONE careless error that happened because she let haste and LGs arrogance influence her to skip doing the 15-20 seconds rule verification steps!

Luckily her cycle is going well and she's already got several T14 (including one T5 so far) acceptances in the bag partly due to her perfect GPA with a double major and lots of strong soft factors, but those six points from that one careless easily preventable mistake are probably going to end up costing her some scholly$$ options she would have otherwise had with a 173 instead of 168 and will hurt her chances at HYS, but only time will tell with all that as she waits out the cycle for more decisions to come in to see what all her options end up being. Believe me when I tell you that that single mistake has been on her mind haunting her EVERY DAY since the December test!


That's happened to me in practice!! Glad everything still worked out for her. I've found that verifiying each rule for every question helps me, but I see what you guys are saying. By religiously checking the rules a few times up front, there won't be a need to check them on most indviual questions because you'll remember them




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