Usefulness of taking a Logic course Forum

boardwalkempiya · Post by **boardwalkempiya** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:42 pm

I understand that there aren't that many formal logic questions on the test, but would it be useful to take a college course on elementary logic prior to the exam?

03152016 · Post by **03152016** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:52 pm

probably wouldn't prepare you any better than putting the same number of hours into lsat logic prep
interesting subject though, would have taken it in ug if it was offered

acr · Post by **acr** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:01 am

I took one. Did not help whatsoever beyond introducing my mind to the abstract way of thinking about formal logic problems.

downbeat14 · Post by **downbeat14** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:23 am

Mullens · Post by **Mullens** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:34 am

I found it more helpful for LR than LG but it probably won't cut down on your study time too much.

McAvoy · Post by **McAvoy** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:36 am

I would say it's a useful class to take, period. Not really going to be a big help for the LSAT,* but it's good shit.

*Contrary to what might be intuitive, I think the formal logic skills you develop in the class can detract from your LSAT prep. Try to compartmentalize those skills when you're doing your lsat prep; the formal logic concepts will be much simpler and straightforward on the test, and trying use the frameworks and methods you learned in class will be a time suck. I actually think that learning the informal fallacies in an intro logic class is more helpful for the LSAT. The arguments section is riddled with questions asking you to pick out informal fallacies and shitty reasoning and what not, and being able to spot those errors quickly is obviously a good thing. But you can and will learn such concepts easily either way, so, again, it's not a big help.

RobertGolddust · Post by **RobertGolddust** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:23 pm

I understand that there aren't that many formal logic questions on the test, but would it be useful to take a college course on elementary logic prior to the exam?

Dude. Yes. I'm convinced my jump into the 160's resulted from a 200 level logic course. Also, the class was an easy A and I met some of my peers who were pursuing lawschool.

Take it.

gatesome · Post by **gatesome** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:27 pm

I took Logic in UG and loved it, even though it was a very challenging class.

I also think it helped me more with LR than LG. Formal logic is far more intense than the basic conditional logic on the LSAT. The LSAT uses basic terms like "some" and "all" while formal logic uses symbols like the universal/existential quantifier. No way you'll have time to translate LSAT questions into truly formal logic during the test.

McAvoy · Post by **McAvoy** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:45 pm

RobertGolddust wrote:
I understand that there aren't that many formal logic questions on the test, but would it be useful to take a college course on elementary logic prior to the exam?
Dude. Yes. I'm convinced my jump into the 160's resulted from a 200 level logic course. Also, the class was an easy A and I met some of my peers who were pursuing lawschool.

Take it.

Do not count on the bolded. At least at my UG it was a class where you had to put in real work for the A.

Also do not go in expecting to make friends. These classes attract a certain kind of typically insufferable person.

Either way, take it.

ugg · Post by **ugg** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:23 pm

Post removed.

gatesome · Post by **gatesome** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:32 pm

McAvoy wrote:
RobertGolddust wrote:
I understand that there aren't that many formal logic questions on the test, but would it be useful to take a college course on elementary logic prior to the exam?
Dude. Yes. I'm convinced my jump into the 160's resulted from a 200 level logic course. Also, the class was an easy A and I met some of my peers who were pursuing lawschool.

Take it.
Do not count on the bolded. At least at my UG it was a class where you had to put in real work for the A.

Also do not go in expecting to make friends. These classes attract a certain kind of typically insufferable person.

Either way, take it.

Same at my school. Logic was more like an easy D+/C-. More people got C's than A's. I had a perfect grade going into the final, got only one of 10 questions wrong (couldn't finish in time like 80% of the class) and got an A- overall. Intense shit.

pancakes3 · Post by **pancakes3** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:36 pm

Taking logic to ace the LSAT is more or less the same myth people said about taking Latin in HS to ace the SAT. I took both classes and neither made me "feel" any more prepared.

splittingheadache · Post by **splittingheadache** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:38 pm

I took the standard logic course for philosophy students and it was called modern symbolic logic at my school. For us, really it was only probably the first month that really mattered. Everything after that is really really extraneous and unnecessary for the LSAT. Unless you can get like an A+ and this would be an easy course for you, I'd skip it and just read LSAT prep materials. Not only do they contain just the right amount of logic background, but exactly what you need to ace the LSAT.

If your university has a course on informal logic (probably in the English department I assume?), than that would be more worth your time.

Agree with pancakes's analogy.

splittingheadache · Post by **splittingheadache** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:48 pm

gatesome wrote:
McAvoy wrote:
RobertGolddust wrote:
I understand that there aren't that many formal logic questions on the test, but would it be useful to take a college course on elementary logic prior to the exam?
Dude. Yes. I'm convinced my jump into the 160's resulted from a 200 level logic course. Also, the class was an easy A and I met some of my peers who were pursuing lawschool.

Take it.
Do not count on the bolded. At least at my UG it was a class where you had to put in real work for the A.

Also do not go in expecting to make friends. These classes attract a certain kind of typically insufferable person.

Either way, take it.
Same at my school. Logic was more like an easy D+/C-. More people got C's than A's. I had a perfect grade going into the final, got only one of 10 questions wrong (couldn't finish in time like 80% of the class) and got an A- overall. Intense shit.

I also agree that this formal logic is not an easy A, particularly it you are more of a social sciences/humanities "did everything you could to escape the science/math requirement for your BA" type of a student. Many people in my formal logic class were in computer science or math and they really found it to be elementary, since the modern symbolic logic in philosophy was like 1+1 compared to computer science logic, from what they told me.

Formal logic was also one of the courses that effed my gpa. -_-
I don't know if this is still the case, but we used to use Logic 2010 for the class. Drove me insane.
Flip through Powerscore LG Bible, conditions, biconditionals, contrapositives, you have to make sure you understand those things inside and out, and it has to happen automatically.

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/mwS8GXMIWic/maxresdefault.jpg
This, is what the logic course evolves into. This is not something you need or should worry about on the LSAT. And it is probably the easiest of the curriculum, it gets mind-boggling crazy after this.

gatesome · Post by **gatesome** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:08 pm

splittingheadache wrote:http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/mwS8GXMIWic/maxresdefault.jpg
This, is what the logic course evolves into. This is not something you need or should worry about on the LSAT. And it is probably the easiest of the curriculum, it gets mind-boggling crazy after this.

Ouch, that hurts my eyes.

This is what the program we used (Fitch) looks like:

splittingheadache · Post by **splittingheadache** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:27 pm

gatesome wrote:
splittingheadache wrote:http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/mwS8GXMIWic/maxresdefault.jpg
This, is what the logic course evolves into. This is not something you need or should worry about on the LSAT. And it is probably the easiest of the curriculum, it gets mind-boggling crazy after this.
Ouch, that hurts my eyes.

This is what the program we used (Fitch) looks like:

I know! At least Fitch's colour scheme is nicer. And your example was the point in the course that just completely lost me. That domain/universe symbol thing... so tough...cried a lot...felt useless...

gatesome · Post by **gatesome** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:02 pm

splittingheadache wrote:
gatesome wrote:
splittingheadache wrote:http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/mwS8GXMIWic/maxresdefault.jpg
This, is what the logic course evolves into. This is not something you need or should worry about on the LSAT. And it is probably the easiest of the curriculum, it gets mind-boggling crazy after this.
Ouch, that hurts my eyes.

This is what the program we used (Fitch) looks like:
I know! At least Fitch's colour scheme is nicer. And your example was the point in the course that just completely lost me. That domain/universe symbol thing... so tough...cried a lot...felt useless...

i feel like that's where formal logic starts to meet computer science

even though i learned how to use the 'for all' and 'there exists' symbols, they aren't really transferable to the lsat

anon sequitur · Post by **anon sequitur** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:08 pm

McAvoy wrote:Also do not go in expecting to make friends. These classes attract a certain kind of typically insufferable person.

Good news, there's a big overlap with this group and law students!

RobertGolddust · Post by **RobertGolddust** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:47 pm

o not count on the bolded. At least at my UG it was a class where you had to put in real work for the A.

Also do not go in expecting to make friends. These classes attract a certain kind of typically insufferable person.

Dude, if you're struggling with 200 level logic then the LSAT is going to be a wake up call. And I found the people pursing lawschool durring UG were generally interesting.

P.S

Someone needs an attitude check.

McAvoy · Post by **McAvoy** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:55 pm

anon sequitur wrote:
McAvoy wrote:Also do not go in expecting to make friends. These classes attract a certain kind of typically insufferable person.
Good news, there's a big overlap with this group and law students!

Yeah, but there are a lot more turds in philosophy departments than law school, at least in my experience.

McAvoy · Post by **McAvoy** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:25 pm

RobertGolddust wrote:Dude, if you're struggling with 200 level logic then the LSAT is going to be a wake up call. And I found the people pursing lawschool durring UG were generally interesting.

P.S

Someone needs an attitude check.

Fuckwad 0L who scored a 155 on a real life LSAT:

I was simply telling OP not to expect a jerk off class, which you implied it universally was (presumably b/c you went to grade-inflated and/or crappy UG). It may well be a jerk off class at OP's UG, but, for instance, at my UG, it was curved and mandatory for lib arts people who did not want to take advanced math gen eds, so real work was required to get an A, regardless of your understanding the content.

Speaking as someone who did not score only in the 60th percentile on the LSAT, I would say, again, that a formal logic class is not very helpful for the LSAT, but I would encourage OP to take one either way.

Pre-law philosophy majors tend to be among the most insufferable crowds on your typical UG campus. You do not understand this because you seem to be one of the offenders.

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:02 pm

Post removed.

RobertGolddust · Post by **RobertGolddust** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:02 pm

My UG logic course was on a curve too. I still managed to score an A with little effort. As for the LSAT, at least I'm honest about my score (which I'm not happy with). I don't have unrealistic expectations like most people in cyber space and think a 170 just takes a couple years of hard work and a can do attitude. Yea, the 155 is weak, but I'll put up the 160 I need eventually.

When you say insufferable people i have to imagine you're referring to yourself, your projecting. So just piss off, jerk off, or whatever it is freaks like you do. Just please don't go Virginia Tech on your Lawschool or something. I don't have to worry about scoring a 170 so I can work in big law some day and make 160k as a paper jockey. I already have money. I want to be a lawyer because I like the profession and want to make a difference in my community. Honestly, this is a waste of time. The only reason I'm even responding to your attack is to voice the truth, and protect people from loser cyber bullies like yourself.

peace out bitch

03152016 · Post by **03152016** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:13 pm

so brave

RobertGolddust · Post by **RobertGolddust** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:13 pm

You do not understand this because you seem to be one of the offenders

I majored in classics fuckstick