When is the best time to start PTing under timed conditions?

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churrochi

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When is the best time to start PTing under timed conditions?

Postby churrochi » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:03 pm

So I'm studying for a retake in September, and I've just finished Mike's LSAT Trainer. For the rest of the time until the LSAT, I'm going to be spending my time taking PTs (2-3/week), drilling question types and games I have trouble with, and working through the Powerscore LGB and LRB.

I took PT 57 today and noticed a significant difference in accuracy in the LR section. When I put myself under time constraints, I only scored a 19/26. When I didn't time myself, I got a 24/25. Should I continue simulating test conditions with my PTs or take a few PTs first to truly assess weaknesses, and then eventually work with timing constraints? (FWIW, in the LR section I did better in, I took ~40 minutes to finish.)

(Slightly OT: the time constraint also stresses me out a LOT so when I encounter Parallel Flaw questions or other question types I'm not good at, I have the tendency to freak out and just stare at the dwindling time on my timer...also the third logic game just got me into a bad funk which I think affected my score.)

(Also open to other recommended ways to supplement my studying.)

Thank you!

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bombaysippin

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Re: When is the best time to start PTing under timed conditions?

Postby bombaysippin » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:09 pm

Work on understanding questions better. Then when you feel ready, time yourself.

Since you're retaking, you probably already went through a number of PTs...(hopefully assuming). If you have any fresh ones, I'd save those for later down the road when you're more comfortable with the time constraint and question types.

fixnroll

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Re: When is the best time to start PTing under timed conditions?

Postby fixnroll » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:04 pm

churrochi wrote:I'm going to be ... working through the Powerscore LGB and LRB.


I wouldn't recommend LRB if you are prepping for a retake since you have already went through the first time, and I assume you have known the fundamentals of Logical Reasoning. LRB gives some bad information, for example, it asks you to read the stimulus first and then the question stem, which will be quite time-consuming and not quite effective. I recommend you use Manhattan LR this time! (Also, would you mind telling us what score you got and how much you lost in each and every section?)

Then, as for the parallel flaw and all other question types that might intimidate you, you can always choose to skip that question during a real test if you find it too hard for you, and come back later when you have enough time after finishing all those questions that are must-get.

Now, the real question, I think the best time for you to PT under timed conditions depends on how much you have known about the test and what score you got in your previous administration. I suggest you do a couple of more un-timed sections and see how you do. If you can score consistently 23-25/25, then probably the real problem is not about your understanding of fundamentals of LR. That's when you should start PTing, you have to get used to that timed condition and get out of your comfort zone. Trust me, the earlier you start PTing under timed conditions (with enough fundamental knowledge of course), the better you will be. BUT, if you score under 22/25 per section, you need to go back to Manhattan and master certain question types depending on those un-timed sections you just did. After this, when you are okay with 23-25/25, you start PTing.

Let me know if you have any more questions. Good luck!

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Calbears123

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Re: When is the best time to start PTing under timed conditions?

Postby Calbears123 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:10 am

fixnroll wrote:
churrochi wrote:I'm going to be ... working through the Powerscore LGB and LRB.


I wouldn't recommend LRB if you are prepping for a retake since you have already went through the first time, and I assume you have known the fundamentals of Logical Reasoning. LRB gives some bad information, for example, it asks you to read the stimulus first and then the question stem, which will be quite time-consuming and not quite effective. I recommend you use Manhattan LR this time! (Also, would you mind telling us what score you got and how much you lost in each and every section?)

Then, as for the parallel flaw and all other question types that might intimidate you, you can always choose to skip that question during a real test if you find it too hard for you, and come back later when you have enough time after finishing all those questions that are must-get.

Now, the real question, I think the best time for you to PT under timed conditions depends on how much you have known about the test and what score you got in your previous administration. I suggest you do a couple of more un-timed sections and see how you do. If you can score consistently 23-25/25, then probably the real problem is not about your understanding of fundamentals of LR. That's when you should start PTing, you have to get used to that timed condition and get out of your comfort zone. Trust me, the earlier you start PTing under timed conditions (with enough fundamental knowledge of course), the better you will be. BUT, if you score under 22/25 per section, you need to go back to Manhattan and master certain question types depending on those un-timed sections you just did. After this, when you are okay with 23-25/25, you start PTing.

Let me know if you have any more questions. Good luck!


Man I wish I would have known about this at first haha. I took a testmasters course a year ago and they taught me to read the Stimulus before the question stim. Since then I've always read the stimulus first, in fact I never thought of reading the question stim first, that was until I read the trainers like a month ago.

Now I try to doing questions reading the question stim first and I just can't do it. It slows me down like mad and I think too much about what I'm looking for that I miss it. I guess thats what happens after doing thousands of LR questions reading the stim first.

O well...

fixnroll

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Re: When is the best time to start PTing under timed conditions?

Postby fixnroll » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:18 am

Calbears123 wrote:
fixnroll wrote:
churrochi wrote:I'm going to be ... working through the Powerscore LGB and LRB.


I wouldn't recommend LRB if you are prepping for a retake since you have already went through the first time, and I assume you have known the fundamentals of Logical Reasoning. LRB gives some bad information, for example, it asks you to read the stimulus first and then the question stem, which will be quite time-consuming and not quite effective. I recommend you use Manhattan LR this time! (Also, would you mind telling us what score you got and how much you lost in each and every section?)

Then, as for the parallel flaw and all other question types that might intimidate you, you can always choose to skip that question during a real test if you find it too hard for you, and come back later when you have enough time after finishing all those questions that are must-get.

Now, the real question, I think the best time for you to PT under timed conditions depends on how much you have known about the test and what score you got in your previous administration. I suggest you do a couple of more un-timed sections and see how you do. If you can score consistently 23-25/25, then probably the real problem is not about your understanding of fundamentals of LR. That's when you should start PTing, you have to get used to that timed condition and get out of your comfort zone. Trust me, the earlier you start PTing under timed conditions (with enough fundamental knowledge of course), the better you will be. BUT, if you score under 22/25 per section, you need to go back to Manhattan and master certain question types depending on those un-timed sections you just did. After this, when you are okay with 23-25/25, you start PTing.

Let me know if you have any more questions. Good luck!


Man I wish I would have known about this at first haha. I took a testmasters course a year ago and they taught me to read the Stimulus before the question stim. Since then I've always read the stimulus first, in fact I never thought of reading the question stim first, that was until I read the trainers like a month ago.

Now I try to doing questions reading the question stim first and I just can't do it. It slows me down like mad and I think too much about what I'm looking for that I miss it. I guess thats what happens after doing thousands of LR questions reading the stim first.

O well...


LOL I hear ya! But imagine this, there is this crazily hard stimulus talking about aesthetics blah blah blah, a lot of assumptions you might need to fill in, even some flaws, etc. If you go directly to the stimulus without reading the question stem, you might end up spending 3 minutes assuming LSAT would ask you the flaw/assumption/weaken and you even make it to find out the flaw, fill in the assumption and spot the weakener. Aaaaaaaaaanndd.... the question stems goes like: What is the main conclusion of this argument? YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME..

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Calbears123

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Re: When is the best time to start PTing under timed conditions?

Postby Calbears123 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:43 pm

Calbears123 wrote:
fixnroll wrote:
churrochi wrote:I'm going to be ... working through the Powerscore LGB and LRB.


I wouldn't recommend LRB if you are prepping for a retake since you have already went through the first time, and I assume you have known the fundamentals of Logical Reasoning. LRB gives some bad information, for example, it asks you to read the stimulus first and then the question stem, which will be quite time-consuming and not quite effective. I recommend you use Manhattan LR this time! (Also, would you mind telling us what score you got and how much you lost in each and every section?)

Then, as for the parallel flaw and all other question types that might intimidate you, you can always choose to skip that question during a real test if you find it too hard for you, and come back later when you have enough time after finishing all those questions that are must-get.

Now, the real question, I think the best time for you to PT under timed conditions depends on how much you have known about the test and what score you got in your previous administration. I suggest you do a couple of more un-timed sections and see how you do. If you can score consistently 23-25/25, then probably the real problem is not about your understanding of fundamentals of LR. That's when you should start PTing, you have to get used to that timed condition and get out of your comfort zone. Trust me, the earlier you start PTing under timed conditions (with enough fundamental knowledge of course), the better you will be. BUT, if you score under 22/25 per section, you need to go back to Manhattan and master certain question types depending on those un-timed sections you just did. After this, when you are okay with 23-25/25, you start PTing.

Let me know if you have any more questions. Good luck!


Man I wish I would have known about this at first haha. I took a testmasters course a year ago and they taught me to read the Stimulus before the question stim. Since then I've always read the stimulus first, in fact I never thought of reading the question stim first, that was until I read the trainers like a month ago.

Now I try to doing questions reading the question stim first and I just can't do it. It slows me down like mad and I think too much about what I'm looking for that I miss it. I guess thats what happens after doing thousands of LR questions reading the stim first.

O well...


I was just thinking the same thing. It's happen a few times to me already. I'll read a super hard stimulus with a lot of assumptions/flaws and I'll think to myself great, they are going to ask me to make this argument 100% valid I'm screwed, ok another read. 2 minutes later turns out they just want the main conclusion...dammit haha

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churrochi

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Re: When is the best time to start PTing under timed conditions?

Postby churrochi » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:30 pm

Thanks for all your helpful insight everyone. I am planning to spend this week with PTs (untimed) and depending on how I feel at the end of the week, I'm hoping to start timing myself by the end of the month.

fixnroll wrote:
churrochi wrote:I'm going to be ... working through the Powerscore LGB and LRB.


I wouldn't recommend LRB if you are prepping for a retake since you have already went through the first time, and I assume you have known the fundamentals of Logical Reasoning. LRB gives some bad information, for example, it asks you to read the stimulus first and then the question stem, which will be quite time-consuming and not quite effective. I recommend you use Manhattan LR this time! (Also, would you mind telling us what score you got and how much you lost in each and every section?)

Then, as for the parallel flaw and all other question types that might intimidate you, you can always choose to skip that question during a real test if you find it too hard for you, and come back later when you have enough time after finishing all those questions that are must-get.

Now, the real question, I think the best time for you to PT under timed conditions depends on how much you have known about the test and what score you got in your previous administration. I suggest you do a couple of more un-timed sections and see how you do. If you can score consistently 23-25/25, then probably the real problem is not about your understanding of fundamentals of LR. That's when you should start PTing, you have to get used to that timed condition and get out of your comfort zone. Trust me, the earlier you start PTing under timed conditions (with enough fundamental knowledge of course), the better you will be. BUT, if you score under 22/25 per section, you need to go back to Manhattan and master certain question types depending on those un-timed sections you just did. After this, when you are okay with 23-25/25, you start PTing.

Let me know if you have any more questions. Good luck!


In regards to this, here's a little bit about myself and my experience this past cycle: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=230913

In short, I was PTing at high 150s/low 160s but got a 151 on the actual exam (12/23 on LG, 14/25 and 14/26 on LR, and 17/27 on RC). I had some offers but obviously nothing that I could consider taking out loans for. Hence, the retake. I was really shocked to see how poorly I did ("I'm not totally ready for this exam, but I couldn't possibly get lower than my diagnostic score right?" Wrong.). In hindsight, I obviously wasn't ready at all. The folks over at BP even advised me to push my test date to December and start studying properly (ie: review mistakes/weaknesses, take more PTs, etc.) but for whatever reason I was October or bust back then. I've learned since then, to say the least.

LR is by far my weakest section type, so I'm definitely going to jump into the Manhattan LR book once it arrives in the mail on Tuesday. Thanks for the tip.

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