Low-Mediocre PT Scorers (From Cold Diagnostics & Beyond)

MDJ2588
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Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:22 am

Low-Mediocre PT Scorers (From Cold Diagnostics & Beyond)

Postby MDJ2588 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:29 pm

I am starting this forum for all those who have had a low to mediocre cold diagnostic score, as well as anyone who's PT scores are not at a level of personal satisfaction.....

I fully understand this dilemma, because I am currently in this position as well. Many of the Study Forums on TLS, including my own study forum for the June test has an overwhelmingly high concentration of PT scorers ranging in 170+. This can bring doubt to the ambition of many individuals that want to achieve a competitive LSAT score.

I ask that anyone who is currently struggling with their overall performance to feel free to post their woes here (you won't be judged, just encouraged), and we can assist each other in motivation as well as growth. Also, anyone who has seen significant increases in their own PTs, or Prep Work, please feel free to inspire those in doubt, and reinforce to them that their hard work is not in vain. In addition, anyone that has already taken the LSAT, but struggled initially, I implore you to post your story or wisdom here.

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PattyCake
Posts: 440
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Re: Low-Mediocre PT Scorers (From Cold Diagnostics & Beyond)

Postby PattyCake » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:50 pm

MDJ2588 wrote:I am starting this forum for all those who have had a low to mediocre cold diagnostic score, as well as anyone who's PT scores are not at a level of personal satisfaction.....

I fully understand this dilemma, because I am currently in this position as well. Many of the Study Forums on TLS, including my own study forum for the June test has an overwhelmingly high concentration of PT scorers ranging in 170+. This can bring doubt to the ambition of many individuals that want to achieve a competitive LSAT score.

I ask that anyone who is currently struggling with their overall performance to feel free to post their woes here (you won't be judged, just encouraged), and we can assist each other in motivation as well as growth. Also, anyone who has seen significant increases in their own PTs, or Prep Work, please feel free to inspire those in doubt, and reinforce to them that their hard work is not in vain. In addition, anyone that has already taken the LSAT, but struggled initially, I implore you to post your story or wisdom here.


My cold diagnostic was 153. I literally refused to even look and see what kind of material to expect before I took it. I worked my butt off with powerscore books from May to October while taking summer classes and a fall course load and while working and raising a family. Got my PT's up to the low 160's. I was sick the day of the exam and ended up with a 155. Studied my butt off even more until yesterday and my PT's were averaging upper 160's. I don't think I broke 160 on the test, though I may be wrong as my first 4 sections felt great. My prep has been entirely realistic, even including having friends and family pretend to be awful proctors, making noise and staring at me while I worked. I will know no matter what my score is that I worked as hard as I could with all the other responsibilities I have as a thirty-something nontrad. And you know what? I don't care what anyone 170+ says on here. You do the best you can and if you're really pt'ing at a score under realistic conditions then THAT'S your ability. Forget what everyone else says about 170's and do your best because you earned the right to take this goddamned awful exam just like they did, and you probably worked as hard or harder for your 154 then they did for heir 170+. This is our year, and we're every bit as deserving and as capable of actively receiving the same quality of education as the high scorers. Next year this time no one will be asking you for your lsat score - it will never matter again once you're in. Has anyone asked you how you did on the sat's since you started undergrad? It's just a number, and the best way to get it as high as possible is to remember that. Never let anyone else tell you what your score should be, or how capable you are - that's YOUR right. Now if you'll excuse me I have some lsat prep books to throw ceremonially into a trash compactor :-)

MDJ2588
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:22 am

Re: Low-Mediocre PT Scorers (From Cold Diagnostics & Beyond)

Postby MDJ2588 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:06 am

PattyCake wrote:
MDJ2588 wrote:I am starting this forum for all those who have had a low to mediocre cold diagnostic score, as well as anyone who's PT scores are not at a level of personal satisfaction.....

I fully understand this dilemma, because I am currently in this position as well. Many of the Study Forums on TLS, including my own study forum for the June test has an overwhelmingly high concentration of PT scorers ranging in 170+. This can bring doubt to the ambition of many individuals that want to achieve a competitive LSAT score.

I ask that anyone who is currently struggling with their overall performance to feel free to post their woes here (you won't be judged, just encouraged), and we can assist each other in motivation as well as growth. Also, anyone who has seen significant increases in their own PTs, or Prep Work, please feel free to inspire those in doubt, and reinforce to them that their hard work is not in vain. In addition, anyone that has already taken the LSAT, but struggled initially, I implore you to post your story or wisdom here.


My cold diagnostic was 153. I literally refused to even look and see what kind of material to expect before I took it. I worked my butt off with powerscore books from May to October while taking summer classes and a fall course load and while working and raising a family. Got my PT's up to the low 160's. I was sick the day of the exam and ended up with a 155. Studied my butt off even more until yesterday and my PT's were averaging upper 160's. I don't think I broke 160 on the test, though I may be wrong as my first 4 sections felt great. My prep has been entirely realistic, even including having friends and family pretend to be awful proctors, making noise and staring at me while I worked. I will know no matter what my score is that I worked as hard as I could with all the other responsibilities I have as a thirty-something nontrad. And you know what? I don't care what anyone 170+ says on here. You do the best you can and if you're really pt'ing at a score under realistic conditions then THAT'S your ability. Forget what everyone else says about 170's and do your best because you earned the right to take this goddamned awful exam just like they did, and you probably worked as hard or harder for your 154 then they did for heir 170+. This is our year, and we're every bit as deserving and as capable of actively receiving the same quality of education as the high scorers. Next year this time no one will be asking you for your lsat score - it will never matter again once you're in. Has anyone asked you how you did on the sat's since you started undergrad? It's just a number, and the best way to get it as high as possible is to remember that. Never let anyone else tell you what your score should be, or how capable you are - that's YOUR right. Now if you'll excuse me I have some lsat prep books to throw ceremonially into a trash compactor :-)


HAHA very well said, I give you a lot of credit for your effort, and dedication to the LSAT as well as your family. I believe your in the right mind set. I set my bar to the top (a 180 of coarse), but whatever I get, I will take with the notion that I put all my efforts into this test and exhausted myself intellectually to reach my goals. Your route was much more commendable, due to the fact that I have distanced myself from everyone in my life (at times even my Wife). Yet, schools like Yale have a very interesting, and humanistic approach to their Application Process. Many schools don't just look into your numbers, but also account the person behind the numbers. At times a student with a squeaky clean life, with high scoring numbers can be admitted with a student who has a decent GPA/LSAT score, but brings a compelling story, as well as unique dynamic to their campus. I don't know if you believe in God or a higher power, but you've done all that can be done, its now in greater hands then yours!

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Attax
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Re: Low-Mediocre PT Scorers (From Cold Diagnostics & Beyond)

Postby Attax » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:44 am

MDJ2588 wrote:
PattyCake wrote:
MDJ2588 wrote:I am starting this forum for all those who have had a low to mediocre cold diagnostic score, as well as anyone who's PT scores are not at a level of personal satisfaction.....

I fully understand this dilemma, because I am currently in this position as well. Many of the Study Forums on TLS, including my own study forum for the June test has an overwhelmingly high concentration of PT scorers ranging in 170+. This can bring doubt to the ambition of many individuals that want to achieve a competitive LSAT score.

I ask that anyone who is currently struggling with their overall performance to feel free to post their woes here (you won't be judged, just encouraged), and we can assist each other in motivation as well as growth. Also, anyone who has seen significant increases in their own PTs, or Prep Work, please feel free to inspire those in doubt, and reinforce to them that their hard work is not in vain. In addition, anyone that has already taken the LSAT, but struggled initially, I implore you to post your story or wisdom here.


My cold diagnostic was 153. I literally refused to even look and see what kind of material to expect before I took it. I worked my butt off with powerscore books from May to October while taking summer classes and a fall course load and while working and raising a family. Got my PT's up to the low 160's. I was sick the day of the exam and ended up with a 155. Studied my butt off even more until yesterday and my PT's were averaging upper 160's. I don't think I broke 160 on the test, though I may be wrong as my first 4 sections felt great. My prep has been entirely realistic, even including having friends and family pretend to be awful proctors, making noise and staring at me while I worked. I will know no matter what my score is that I worked as hard as I could with all the other responsibilities I have as a thirty-something nontrad. And you know what? I don't care what anyone 170+ says on here. You do the best you can and if you're really pt'ing at a score under realistic conditions then THAT'S your ability. Forget what everyone else says about 170's and do your best because you earned the right to take this goddamned awful exam just like they did, and you probably worked as hard or harder for your 154 then they did for heir 170+. This is our year, and we're every bit as deserving and as capable of actively receiving the same quality of education as the high scorers. Next year this time no one will be asking you for your lsat score - it will never matter again once you're in. Has anyone asked you how you did on the sat's since you started undergrad? It's just a number, and the best way to get it as high as possible is to remember that. Never let anyone else tell you what your score should be, or how capable you are - that's YOUR right. Now if you'll excuse me I have some lsat prep books to throw ceremonially into a trash compactor :-)


HAHA very well said, I give you a lot of credit for your effort, and dedication to the LSAT as well as your family. I believe your in the right mind set. I set my bar to the top (a 180 of coarse), but whatever I get, I will take with the notion that I put all my efforts into this test and exhausted myself intellectually to reach my goals. Your route was much more commendable, due to the fact that I have distanced myself from everyone in my life (at times even my Wife). Yet, schools like Yale have a very interesting, and humanistic approach to their Application Process. Many schools don't just look into your numbers, but also account the person behind the numbers. At times a student with a squeaky clean life, with high scoring numbers can be admitted with a student who has a decent GPA/LSAT score, but brings a compelling story, as well as unique dynamic to their campus. I don't know if you believe in God or a higher power, but you've done all that can be done, its now in greater hands then yours!


But you definitely increase your chances of Yale with a high GPA/LSAT.

There definitely are factors in play that can inhibit you from hitting a 170+, but that's most likely due to lack of flexibility. You can always retake or postpone your testing date to later if you aren't yet fully prepared, regardless of your home life. You get 1 shot at law school, 3 at the LSAT. Is it worth it to hurt your one chance just because you didn't take full opportunity of the other three? The anecdotal individual with a decent GPA/LSAT (which, mind you, would still be around 3.8/170 for Yale) doesn't outweigh the data that an LSAT above median certainly helps.

Now, to your original question. My diagnostic was in the low 150s in June of 2013. I was taking the October 2013 test. By the time the October test came around I was hitting 170+ on almost all diagnostics, and even managed a 180 one time (sheer statistical outlier based on the data, really). The key is studying properly. Almost all study methods will get you to a 160-165 range, but breaking out of there is where the grit really gets tough. Where one more question right could mean one entire point higher on that LSAT. It is daunting, frustrating, and annoying but you can't give up. I think up until you are doing all PTs is about the same, but don't do PTs just to get a score. My PT method was
1. Fully timed PT
2. Mark answers wrong with an x, but don't highlight the correct answer.
3. Go back through everyone missed and identify
a) why my answer was wrong
b) what the right answer was
c) why I thought the right answer was wrong
4. Check to see if my new answer is correct, if so yay! if not go back and completely reevaluate the question.

It took time, about 5 hours per day for 1 month leading up to my test, and I still fell a little shy of my average, but I firmly believe this made the difference between in my scores.

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PattyCake
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Re: Low-Mediocre PT Scorers (From Cold Diagnostics & Beyond)

Postby PattyCake » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:19 am

Attax wrote:
MDJ2588 wrote:
PattyCake wrote:
MDJ2588 wrote:I am starting this forum for all those who have had a low to mediocre cold diagnostic score, as well as anyone who's PT scores are not at a level of personal satisfaction.....

I fully understand this dilemma, because I am currently in this position as well. Many of the Study Forums on TLS, including my own study forum for the June test has an overwhelmingly high concentration of PT scorers ranging in 170+. This can bring doubt to the ambition of many individuals that want to achieve a competitive LSAT score.

I ask that anyone who is currently struggling with their overall performance to feel free to post their woes here (you won't be judged, just encouraged), and we can assist each other in motivation as well as growth. Also, anyone who has seen significant increases in their own PTs, or Prep Work, please feel free to inspire those in doubt, and reinforce to them that their hard work is not in vain. In addition, anyone that has already taken the LSAT, but struggled initially, I implore you to post your story or wisdom here.


My cold diagnostic was 153. I literally refused to even look and see what kind of material to expect before I took it. I worked my butt off with powerscore books from May to October while taking summer classes and a fall course load and while working and raising a family. Got my PT's up to the low 160's. I was sick the day of the exam and ended up with a 155. Studied my butt off even more until yesterday and my PT's were averaging upper 160's. I don't think I broke 160 on the test, though I may be wrong as my first 4 sections felt great. My prep has been entirely realistic, even including having friends and family pretend to be awful proctors, making noise and staring at me while I worked. I will know no matter what my score is that I worked as hard as I could with all the other responsibilities I have as a thirty-something nontrad. And you know what? I don't care what anyone 170+ says on here. You do the best you can and if you're really pt'ing at a score under realistic conditions then THAT'S your ability. Forget what everyone else says about 170's and do your best because you earned the right to take this goddamned awful exam just like they did, and you probably worked as hard or harder for your 154 then they did for heir 170+. This is our year, and we're every bit as deserving and as capable of actively receiving the same quality of education as the high scorers. Next year this time no one will be asking you for your lsat score - it will never matter again once you're in. Has anyone asked you how you did on the sat's since you started undergrad? It's just a number, and the best way to get it as high as possible is to remember that. Never let anyone else tell you what your score should be, or how capable you are - that's YOUR right. Now if you'll excuse me I have some lsat prep books to throw ceremonially into a trash compactor :-)


HAHA very well said, I give you a lot of credit for your effort, and dedication to the LSAT as well as your family. I believe your in the right mind set. I set my bar to the top (a 180 of coarse), but whatever I get, I will take with the notion that I put all my efforts into this test and exhausted myself intellectually to reach my goals. Your route was much more commendable, due to the fact that I have distanced myself from everyone in my life (at times even my Wife). Yet, schools like Yale have a very interesting, and humanistic approach to their Application Process. Many schools don't just look into your numbers, but also account the person behind the numbers. At times a student with a squeaky clean life, with high scoring numbers can be admitted with a student who has a decent GPA/LSAT score, but brings a compelling story, as well as unique dynamic to their campus. I don't know if you believe in God or a higher power, but you've done all that can be done, its now in greater hands then yours!


But you definitely increase your chances of Yale with a high GPA/LSAT.

There definitely are factors in play that can inhibit you from hitting a 170+, but that's most likely due to lack of flexibility. You can always retake or postpone your testing date to later if you aren't yet fully prepared, regardless of your home life. You get 1 shot at law school, 3 at the LSAT. Is it worth it to hurt your one chance just because you didn't take full opportunity of the other three? The anecdotal individual with a decent GPA/LSAT (which, mind you, would still be around 3.8/170 for Yale) doesn't outweigh the data that an LSAT above median certainly helps.


Don't take this the wrong way, because I've seen a lot of your posts and I think you mean well and are often quite supportive and helpful, but that was spoken like a kid with no responsibilities - especially the part about "lack of flexibility." This is one of the reasons why nontrads have such a hard time competing with kids for seats. I work ~30 hours per week, I'm at school full time, and I have a 2 year old child to raise - RAISE, not leave in front of a TV while I study. I rarely go to sleep before midnight and I'm up by 4:30 or 5 most days. You don't know what the lives of other people on this site are like, and the point of this thread was to share support. Those "factors which inhibit [us] from hitting 170+" may simply be something you can't speak to. Again, I think you mean well, but...

wwbeyoncedo
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Re: Low-Mediocre PT Scorers (From Cold Diagnostics & Beyond)

Postby wwbeyoncedo » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:57 am

PattyCake wrote: I work ~30 hours per week, I'm at school full time, and I have a 2 year old child to raise - RAISE, not leave in front of a TV while I study. I rarely go to sleep before midnight and I'm up by 4:30 or 5 most days. You don't know what the lives of other people on this site are like, and the point of this thread was to share support. Those "factors which inhibit [us] from hitting 170+" may simply be something you can't speak to. Again, I think you mean well, but...


I don't have a child, but I work 40+ hours a week and have several other responsibilities. I went from a 152 to a 177 by studying over a period of 8 months for about 1-2 hours/day (more on days I PT'd).

The key is not putting in long hours, but putting in smart hours. I don't pretend to understand anyone else's circumstances. But the LSAT for me was like when I decided to get into shape-- I just made it part of my routine and studied in a way that catered to my needs. Studying for 5+ hours a day would have just been counterproductive for me. It took time, but my quality of life never really suffered as a result and it paid off in the end. For what it's worth, I never would have been able to focus on the LSAT like I did when I was still in undergrad. I was immature, unfocused and just not motivated during my senior year.

I say all of this because I really do believe anyone who has solid reading comprehension skills can get into the 170+ territory.

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PattyCake
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Re: Low-Mediocre PT Scorers (From Cold Diagnostics & Beyond)

Postby PattyCake » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:39 pm

wwbeyoncedo wrote:
PattyCake wrote: I work ~30 hours per week, I'm at school full time, and I have a 2 year old child to raise - RAISE, not leave in front of a TV while I study. I rarely go to sleep before midnight and I'm up by 4:30 or 5 most days. You don't know what the lives of other people on this site are like, and the point of this thread was to share support. Those "factors which inhibit [us] from hitting 170+" may simply be something you can't speak to. Again, I think you mean well, but...


I don't have a child, but I work 40+ hours a week and have several other responsibilities. I went from a 152 to a 177 by studying over a period of 8 months for about 1-2 hours/day (more on days I PT'd)./quote]

Again, this is not possible for everyone without making extraordinary efforts. There are only so many hours in a day. You also said you don't have a child. Well you can't pay a day care center for 2 hours on one day and one hour the next day. It's a full or half day. There are scheduling limitations that someone without children can't possibly understand, because you've never had to balance it all. A full time job is not half as much work when you don't have children - and I was in school and working 50 hours a week before mine was born, too, so I know. You get time when you can, usually in full or half day blocs in my case (when I can afford them). You work with whatever you're lucky enough to find. You'll have gotten school out of the way before you have a family, so you'll probably never have to worry about that, and that's great (truly, not being sarcastic). But what you're suggesting is simply not realistic for many people and your insistence otherwise shows how little you understand of people in positions like mine. Which is really my point - we are not represented equally because it SO nearly impossible for us to compete when the LSAT is such a huge deciding factor. And I'm lucky! I'm in NY to begin with, and my family can relocate for law school if necessary - that advantage is RARE for nontrad applicants with families, so generally we are limited to schools in state or even just in the local area. That means we're stuck fighting against whatever medians are geographically dictated as the ones we must meet or surpass.

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Attax
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Re: Low-Mediocre PT Scorers (From Cold Diagnostics & Beyond)

Postby Attax » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:50 pm

PattyCake wrote:
Attax wrote:
MDJ2588 wrote:I am starting this forum for all those who have had a low to mediocre cold diagnostic score, as well as anyone who's PT scores are not at a level of personal satisfaction.....

I fully understand this dilemma, because I am currently in this position as well. Many of the Study Forums on TLS, including my own study forum for the June test has an overwhelmingly high concentration of PT scorers ranging in 170+. This can bring doubt to the ambition of many individuals that want to achieve a competitive LSAT score.

I ask that anyone who is currently struggling with their overall performance to feel free to post their woes here (you won't be judged, just encouraged), and we can assist each other in motivation as well as growth. Also, anyone who has seen significant increases in their own PTs, or Prep Work, please feel free to inspire those in doubt, and reinforce to them that their hard work is not in vain. In addition, anyone that has already taken the LSAT, but struggled initially, I implore you to post your story or wisdom here.




But you definitely increase your chances of Yale with a high GPA/LSAT.

There definitely are factors in play that can inhibit you from hitting a 170+, but that's most likely due to lack of flexibility. You can always retake or postpone your testing date to later if you aren't yet fully prepared, regardless of your home life. You get 1 shot at law school, 3 at the LSAT. Is it worth it to hurt your one chance just because you didn't take full opportunity of the other three? The anecdotal individual with a decent GPA/LSAT (which, mind you, would still be around 3.8/170 for Yale) doesn't outweigh the data that an LSAT above median certainly helps.


Don't take this the wrong way, because I've seen a lot of your posts and I think you mean well and are often quite supportive and helpful, but that was spoken like a kid with no responsibilities - especially the part about "lack of flexibility." This is one of the reasons why nontrads have such a hard time competing with kids for seats. I work ~30 hours per week, I'm at school full time, and I have a 2 year old child to raise - RAISE, not leave in front of a TV while I study. I rarely go to sleep before midnight and I'm up by 4:30 or 5 most days. You don't know what the lives of other people on this site are like, and the point of this thread was to share support. Those "factors which inhibit [us] from hitting 170+" may simply be something you can't speak to. Again, I think you mean well, but...



Not taken the wrong way at all, similarly while I'm not raising a kid during my prep I was in school full time, working 30+ hours per week at my primary job, running my own business, and working on other things. The point of this thread was to share but also to get insight from people who initially scored low but turned it around. I was simply offering advice. I may not have a child to raise, but that doesn't mean I didn't still prioritize the LSAT. I took time off work when needed, which meant I had to make sacrifices and was doing barely anything beyond school+work+LSAT. I agree that our situations aren't 100% comparable especially regarding a child, but that doesn't mean that making excuses for why you can't reach 170+. During my LSAT prep I was up at 4AM every morning. Did I enjoy it? No, but it was the time I had to do it and that is when I did it.

Again, this is not possible for everyone without making extraordinary efforts. There are only so many hours in a day. You also said you don't have a child. Well you can't pay a day care center for 2 hours on one day and one hour the next day. It's a full or half day. There are scheduling limitations that someone without children can't possibly understand, because you've never had to balance it all. A full time job is not half as much work when you don't have children - and I was in school and working 50 hours a week before mine was born, too, so I know. You get time when you can, usually in full or half day blocs in my case (when I can afford them). You work with whatever you're lucky enough to find. You'll have gotten school out of the way before you have a family, so you'll probably never have to worry about that, and that's great (truly, not being sarcastic). But what you're suggesting is simply not realistic for many people and your insistence otherwise shows how little you understand of people in positions like mine. Which is really my point - we are not represented equally because it SO nearly impossible for us to compete when the LSAT is such a huge deciding factor. And I'm lucky! I'm in NY to begin with, and my family can relocate for law school if necessary - that advantage is RARE for nontrad applicants with families, so generally we are limited to schools in state or even just in the local area. That means we're stuck fighting against whatever medians are geographically dictated as the ones we must meet or surpass.
[/quote]

Then why not make them? It may suck, but is worth it for a good score so you can go to a good school and not be stuck in shitlaw or docreview. You must be willing to make sacrifices, and yes you may have to make more than other people, but extraordinary scores don't come without extraordinary sacrifices on everyone's end.

wwbeyoncedo
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Re: Low-Mediocre PT Scorers (From Cold Diagnostics & Beyond)

Postby wwbeyoncedo » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:35 pm

PattyCake wrote:
wwbeyoncedo wrote:
PattyCake wrote: I work ~30 hours per week, I'm at school full time, and I have a 2 year old child to raise - RAISE, not leave in front of a TV while I study. I rarely go to sleep before midnight and I'm up by 4:30 or 5 most days. You don't know what the lives of other people on this site are like, and the point of this thread was to share support. Those "factors which inhibit [us] from hitting 170+" may simply be something you can't speak to. Again, I think you mean well, but...


I don't have a child, but I work 40+ hours a week and have several other responsibilities. I went from a 152 to a 177 by studying over a period of 8 months for about 1-2 hours/day (more on days I PT'd)./quote]

Again, this is not possible for everyone without making extraordinary efforts. There are only so many hours in a day. You also said you don't have a child. Well you can't pay a day care center for 2 hours on one day and one hour the next day. It's a full or half day. There are scheduling limitations that someone without children can't possibly understand, because you've never had to balance it all. A full time job is not half as much work when you don't have children - and I was in school and working 50 hours a week before mine was born, too, so I know. You get time when you can, usually in full or half day blocs in my case (when I can afford them). You work with whatever you're lucky enough to find. You'll have gotten school out of the way before you have a family, so you'll probably never have to worry about that, and that's great (truly, not being sarcastic). But what you're suggesting is simply not realistic for many people and your insistence otherwise shows how little you understand of people in positions like mine. Which is really my point - we are not represented equally because it SO nearly impossible for us to compete when the LSAT is such a huge deciding factor. And I'm lucky! I'm in NY to begin with, and my family can relocate for law school if necessary - that advantage is RARE for nontrad applicants with families, so generally we are limited to schools in state or even just in the local area. That means we're stuck fighting against whatever medians are geographically dictated as the ones we must meet or surpass.


Well, ok. I'm not insisting anything and I'm certainly not trying to suggest that "my life is just as hard and I did it." Just sharing what worked for me. My point was that finding flexibility where you can is incredibly useful and I hoped that would give you some constructive advice.

But, if I were you, and I really wanted to be a lawyer, then I'd make those extraordinary efforts, whatever you deem them to be.

I wish you the best of luck.

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PattyCake
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Re: Low-Mediocre PT Scorers (From Cold Diagnostics & Beyond)

Postby PattyCake » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:47 pm

Attax wrote:
PattyCake wrote:
Attax wrote:
MDJ2588 wrote:I am starting this forum for all those who have had a low to mediocre cold diagnostic score, as well as anyone who's PT scores are not at a level of personal satisfaction.....

I fully understand this dilemma, because I am currently in this position as well. Many of the Study Forums on TLS, including my own study forum for the June test has an overwhelmingly high concentration of PT scorers ranging in 170+. This can bring doubt to the ambition of many individuals that want to achieve a competitive LSAT score.

I ask that anyone who is currently struggling with their overall performance to feel free to post their woes here (you won't be judged, just encouraged), and we can assist each other in motivation as well as growth. Also, anyone who has seen significant increases in their own PTs, or Prep Work, please feel free to inspire those in doubt, and reinforce to them that their hard work is not in vain. In addition, anyone that has already taken the LSAT, but struggled initially, I implore you to post your story or wisdom here.




But you definitely increase your chances of Yale with a high GPA/LSAT.

There definitely are factors in play that can inhibit you from hitting a 170+, but that's most likely due to lack of flexibility. You can always retake or postpone your testing date to later if you aren't yet fully prepared, regardless of your home life. You get 1 shot at law school, 3 at the LSAT. Is it worth it to hurt your one chance just because you didn't take full opportunity of the other three? The anecdotal individual with a decent GPA/LSAT (which, mind you, would still be around 3.8/170 for Yale) doesn't outweigh the data that an LSAT above median certainly helps.


Don't take this the wrong way, because I've seen a lot of your posts and I think you mean well and are often quite supportive and helpful, but that was spoken like a kid with no responsibilities - especially the part about "lack of flexibility." This is one of the reasons why nontrads have such a hard time competing with kids for seats. I work ~30 hours per week, I'm at school full time, and I have a 2 year old child to raise - RAISE, not leave in front of a TV while I study. I rarely go to sleep before midnight and I'm up by 4:30 or 5 most days. You don't know what the lives of other people on this site are like, and the point of this thread was to share support. Those "factors which inhibit [us] from hitting 170+" may simply be something you can't speak to. Again, I think you mean well, but...



Not taken the wrong way at all, similarly while I'm not raising a kid during my prep I was in school full time, working 30+ hours per week at my primary job, running my own business, and working on other things. The point of this thread was to share but also to get insight from people who initially scored low but turned it around. I was simply offering advice. I may not have a child to raise, but that doesn't mean I didn't still prioritize the LSAT. I took time off work when needed, which meant I had to make sacrifices and was doing barely anything beyond school+work+LSAT. I agree that our situations aren't 100% comparable especially regarding a child, but that doesn't mean that making excuses for why you can't reach 170+. During my LSAT prep I was up at 4AM every morning. Did I enjoy it? No, but it was the time I had to do it and that is when I did it.

Again, this is not possible for everyone without making extraordinary efforts. There are only so many hours in a day. You also said you don't have a child. Well you can't pay a day care center for 2 hours on one day and one hour the next day. It's a full or half day. There are scheduling limitations that someone without children can't possibly understand, because you've never had to balance it all. A full time job is not half as much work when you don't have children - and I was in school and working 50 hours a week before mine was born, too, so I know. You get time when you can, usually in full or half day blocs in my case (when I can afford them). You work with whatever you're lucky enough to find. You'll have gotten school out of the way before you have a family, so you'll probably never have to worry about that, and that's great (truly, not being sarcastic). But what you're suggesting is simply not realistic for many people and your insistence otherwise shows how little you understand of people in positions like mine. Which is really my point - we are not represented equally because it SO nearly impossible for us to compete when the LSAT is such a huge deciding factor. And I'm lucky! I'm in NY to begin with, and my family can relocate for law school if necessary - that advantage is RARE for nontrad applicants with families, so generally we are limited to schools in state or even just in the local area. That means we're stuck fighting against whatever medians are geographically dictated as the ones we must meet or surpass.


Then why not make them? It may suck, but is worth it for a good score so you can go to a good school and not be stuck in shitlaw or docreview. You must be willing to make sacrifices, and yes you may have to make more than other people, but extraordinary scores don't come without extraordinary sacrifices on everyone's end.[/quote]

I did. I do, every day. I'm not going to get into it any more here about my personal situation because this isn't a contest. And also because you did it the right way - I'm not disagreeing with that! God knows I regret the way I wasted the chance I had to do this all the first time around when I was your age, and I hope more than anything that my son remembers seeing his mom work this hard and does it differently when it's his turn. You aren't "not as worthy" just because you haven't faced more hardship, but I'm also not any less deserving of a quality education than someone who's got the luxury of time on his or her side. And I have scored 170+ on practice tests, but it is impossible to recreate the stress of an actual exam - my achilles' heel is stress headaches, and there's not much I can do about them. I am well aware that I will never score over 170 on a real LSAT. My point is that it doesn't matter. You don't have to go to a school that requires a 170+ score to get a quality legal education and wind up in a good job. The fact that you think only doc review and "shit law," as you so eloquently put it, are available to anyone who goes to a mid- or lower-tiered school shows that you are young and impatient (which is normal, but a little annoying for those of us who aren't).




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