Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

perfectSCore
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Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby perfectSCore » Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:46 pm

Just took the Feb test, my first administration, and ended up canceling by the end of it. Recently i've been scoring ~171-174, never scored below 168 over 30 PT's including diagnostic, as high as 178 twice, and to top it all off scored a 177 on the Dec 2013 test yesterday. Current scores on average going into today was 0-2 LG, 0-2 first LR, 2-4 second LR, 3-5 RC. Usually don't feel bad about more than 1 or 2 questions on the whole test.

Today i don't know what happened, maybe i should have been waking up earlier to simulate test day, maybe i should have taken a break yesterday, or maybe there was just a disproportionate amount of question types that i am bad at, but my first three sections weren't great and i wasn't feeling too hot headed into the break. Was still somewhat confident that i could salvage the test by doing well on the LG which i hadn't had yet but i thought this tests LG was one of the hardest LG's i've ever had and I ended up not finishing 3 questions and being unsure of about 3 more. I was so upset by this headed into the last section that i didn't do great on the last section either, although i'm still pretty sure it was again, harder than normal by a significant margin. After completing it i, in my upsetness, immediately filled out the cancel circles and signed my name. Normally after i take a test i feel its possible to score upper 170's and sometimes do, but usually just miss a few questions i didn't expect to and sit on low-mid 170's. Today there were 7 questions i more or less guessed on and about 7 i was very unsure about, and i figured that i was going to miss at least 15 and possibly to 20 by the time all the questions i didn't think i missed but missed were factored in.

I don't even know. Super upset right now. Of all the possible outcomes today i didn't imagine once i would end up doing so bad or feelings so bad about it. I don't even know where to go from here; it's not like i have much to fix or can prep more - i'm already scoring possibly as high as i can reliably score so what the fuck am i supposed to do in the future to not fuck up? I don't know what the fuck was wrong today, i started being less sharp but that may have been a factor of me being upset after the first 2 sections and i had much less time than i usually do. I didn't feel that nervous at all. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck fuck fuck fucu fukcukcufckufc

Anyone else do significantly worse on test day? What did you do the next time around/what happened the first time?
Last edited by perfectSCore on Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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withoutapaddle
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Re: Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby withoutapaddle » Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:56 pm

I canceled mid test after going 165+ on all but one of my 25 PT's

I didn't practice timing enough and my nervousness showed

I felt like I did amazing on LR
Good on 3/4 of the games
RC I bombed and I never bounced back

I'm going to retake in June and apply in the fall

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TheodoreKGB
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Re: Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby TheodoreKGB » Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:57 pm

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Last edited by TheodoreKGB on Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

perfectSCore
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Re: Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby perfectSCore » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:01 pm

TheodoreKGB wrote:It's not you. It's this particular test. There has been widespread acknowledgment that your test was exponentially harder. People are speculating on the craziness of the curve.


SO disappointing though, a lot of my December retaker acquaintances said they thought December was worse. I thought December was SUPER easy, for whatever reason. I thought October 2013 was way worse (practice tests, of course).

This test, I thought LR was really really difficult but most people have been saying it was not that bad, just the LG was really hard and overall no sections were easy is the consensus. I really felt the whole test was really bad for me so i'm just baffled. I also had less time on average (mightve mentioned this in OP) than i usually do; LG i usually take it to 35 or have a few minutes, but LR i usually have 10 minutes, same for RC. This time i ran out of time on every single one in the sense that on every section there were questions i skipped (again something i've rarely done), didn't have much time left after finishing the rest, and just couldn't use what little time i had left to review the ones i'd skipped

Baby_Got_Feuerbach
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Re: Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby Baby_Got_Feuerbach » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:11 pm

perfectSCore wrote:
TheodoreKGB wrote:It's not you. It's this particular test. There has been widespread acknowledgment that your test was exponentially harder. People are speculating on the craziness of the curve.


SO disappointing though, a lot of my December retaker acquaintances said they thought December was worse. I thought December was SUPER easy, for whatever reason. I thought October 2013 was way worse (practice tests, of course).


I didn't take December in "real-time" (only as a PT) but this test was way more difficult, at least IMO. The December games were cake and so were the RC.

This test, on the other hand, had a few challenging/surprising games and one really dense RC passage (and the other three weren't easy).

I'm not one to buy into conspiracy theories about LSAC giving the finger to Feb. takers but it's possible that the curve could be crazy tight (like -8 or something) and we'll never know because it's not gonna be released.

perfectSCore
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Re: Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby perfectSCore » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:22 pm

Baby_Got_Feuerbach wrote:
perfectSCore wrote:
TheodoreKGB wrote:It's not you. It's this particular test. There has been widespread acknowledgment that your test was exponentially harder. People are speculating on the craziness of the curve.


SO disappointing though, a lot of my December retaker acquaintances said they thought December was worse. I thought December was SUPER easy, for whatever reason. I thought October 2013 was way worse (practice tests, of course).


I didn't take December in "real-time" (only as a PT) but this test was way more difficult, at least IMO. The December games were cake and so were the RC.

This test, on the other hand, had a few challenging/surprising games and one really dense RC passage (and the other three weren't easy).

I'm not one to buy into conspiracy theories about LSAC giving the finger to Feb. takers but it's possible that the curve could be crazy tight (like -8 or something) and we'll never know because it's not gonna be released.



Ya the worst part about this being so brutal is the fact that it's not disclosed...if ever there was a test where i want to be able to look at all of the questions again so goddamned bad, it's this one (and not because i happened to take it). For the Feb test can we ever talk about the questions? I mean i remember the one super novel game's setup exactly still, but since it's nondisclosed can i never talk about it?

jphiggo
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Re: Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby jphiggo » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:23 pm

I didn't sit for December, but I did take it as a PT earlier this week. IMO, the Dec. test was way easier than this test. On this test, I ran out of time towards the very end of one of the LR sections and I thought that the RC overall was more difficult than what I've seen before (RC is usually my best section, not so much with this test I fear...). I found the LG to be difficult because of the last question, but also because the first three questions each took more than their fair share of time (for me), so I was at the 5 minute warning before starting the last question. Yeah, that was an interesting game to try and play in under 5 minutes. :)

During PT, I usually do well on the tests I think I do bad on and vice versa. I think I got hit by a mac truck on this test and, unfortunately, I doubt it's going to turn out in a positive light like the PT's do.

jphiggo
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Re: Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby jphiggo » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:25 pm

perfectSCore wrote:
Baby_Got_Feuerbach wrote:
perfectSCore wrote:
TheodoreKGB wrote:It's not you. It's this particular test. There has been widespread acknowledgment that your test was exponentially harder. People are speculating on the craziness of the curve.


SO disappointing though, a lot of my December retaker acquaintances said they thought December was worse. I thought December was SUPER easy, for whatever reason. I thought October 2013 was way worse (practice tests, of course).


I didn't take December in "real-time" (only as a PT) but this test was way more difficult, at least IMO. The December games were cake and so were the RC.

This test, on the other hand, had a few challenging/surprising games and one really dense RC passage (and the other three weren't easy).

I'm not one to buy into conspiracy theories about LSAC giving the finger to Feb. takers but it's possible that the curve could be crazy tight (like -8 or something) and we'll never know because it's not gonna be released.



Ya the worst part about this being so brutal is the fact that it's not disclosed...if ever there was a test where i want to be able to look at all of the questions again so goddamned bad, it's this one (and not because i happened to take it). For the Feb test can we ever talk about the questions? I mean i remember the one super novel game's setup exactly still, but since it's nondisclosed can i never talk about it?


I agree that it would be awesome to see this test again and go over what the hell happened. But, unfortunately, it will never be disclosed and you can never disclose it without breaking LSAC's rules.

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TheodoreKGB
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Re: Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby TheodoreKGB » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:27 pm

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Last edited by TheodoreKGB on Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

yadiermolina
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Re: Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby yadiermolina » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:40 pm

My first response when I saw the title of this thread was "only everyone ever." Hang in there.

dkb17xzx
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Re: Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby dkb17xzx » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:42 pm

yea...it was terrible. it happens...there's a buncha factors you con't control. hang in there man.

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Clearly
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Re: Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby Clearly » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:10 pm

1) Don't take a full test the day before the real test.
2) Don't listen to people that are telling you it was abnormally hard, or it's not your fault, or you shouldn't change your game plan, or seek to improve yourself for the retake. If curve balls wrecked your score you need to improve, not rest on your laurels...and the fact that anyone is saying otherwise is absurd.

I'm not trying to insult you, sometimes you get a test that isn't suited to your skills. The trick is not to rue your luck, it's to broaden your skills.

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PattyCake
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Re: Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby PattyCake » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:27 pm

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EllenRly
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Re: Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby EllenRly » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:39 pm

I am glad I am not the only one who found this test incredibly difficult. I am not as fortunate as some of the folks on this forum, who typically have high test scores. I had previously taken the October exam and earned a 152. My law school application to a standard university is currently in pending status, and I was hoping to improve my score. I had taken pretests prior to this exam and was scoring 157. I did not finish the logical reasoning portions on today's exam and had to mark a number of questions with default values, just to have something put down. Some of the problem structures in LR were new, and initially I had no idea how to answer them. I started to figure it out, but at that point, too much time had passed. I am really not too happy at the moment.

Folks are also complaining on other forums, and people are hoping for a major curve. I am so upset, because I already have a masters degree in another field, a 3.9 GPA in graduate school, and GRE scores in the 87 percentile. It seems like some of the criteria for getting into law school is so arbitrary.

Sorry, just venting. Thanks for listening.

-

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vuthy
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Re: Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby vuthy » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:46 pm

I'm a firm believer in the idea that you have to trust the test. What I mean by that is that you have to trust that the test is designed properly to extract the "right" score from you. If one section was dramatically harder, the other sections will compensate, and/or the curve will compensate. The test has to be designed this way in order to retain its meaningfulness from one administration to the next.

So as a test-taker, I think you have to keep reminding yourself of this as you move through the sections. If you were averaging in the 170s, just trust that the actual test is designed to deliver a number in that range. Too late now because it sounds like you canceled (and probably smartly), but next time around, try to have faith that that test writers know what they're doing and know how to write a test that produces your number, even if one section seems unusually hard.

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PattyCake
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Re: Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby PattyCake » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:54 pm

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:55 pm

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KingJamesLBJ
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Re: Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby KingJamesLBJ » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:57 pm

I canceled as well, i didnt want a lower score from my previous. Really hard test imo

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Jeffort
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Re: Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby Jeffort » Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:00 pm

PattyCake wrote:
vuthy wrote:I'm a firm believer in the idea that you have to trust the test. What I mean by that is that you have to trust that the test is designed properly to extract the "right" score from you. If one section was dramatically harder, the other sections will compensate, and/or the curve will compensate. The test has to be designed this way in order to retain its meaningfulness from one administration to the next.

So as a test-taker, I think you have to keep reminding yourself of this as you move through the sections. If you were averaging in the 170s, just trust that the actual test is designed to deliver a number in that range. Too late now because it sounds like you canceled (and probably smartly), but next time around, try to have faith that that test writers know what they're doing and know how to write a test that produces your number, even if one section seems unusually hard.


I'm banking on a steep curve for this one. There's no point cancelling for me, as long as the schools I've been accepted to won't rescind my scholarship offers, but on the off chance that there's a steep curve I might have a shot at my dream school. But here's another question. Sometimes particular questions are unscored. I'm not sure why, maybe because a HUGE number of test takers got it wrong? Well, everyone is flipping out about the circle game - which is the only game I'm confident in from the LG section. So when they strike a question do people who got it right lose the point, or do they just curve an extra point overall? Because that would lower my percentage of correct answers even further... Sorry if it's a dumb question, just not sure why certain question are struck.


They only remove items from scoring that are determined to be a flawed question. They don't remove items because almost everyone got it wrong. In fact, many items are specifically and intentionally designed so that only a small percentage of test takers (the very top scorers) get it correct. Including several items of such high difficulty level on every test is part of how the scale insures that the people who achieve 170+ scores actually possess 170+ level skills/abilities.

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Clearly
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Re: Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby Clearly » Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:01 pm

PattyCake wrote:
vuthy wrote:I'm a firm believer in the idea that you have to trust the test. What I mean by that is that you have to trust that the test is designed properly to extract the "right" score from you. If one section was dramatically harder, the other sections will compensate, and/or the curve will compensate. The test has to be designed this way in order to retain its meaningfulness from one administration to the next.

So as a test-taker, I think you have to keep reminding yourself of this as you move through the sections. If you were averaging in the 170s, just trust that the actual test is designed to deliver a number in that range. Too late now because it sounds like you canceled (and probably smartly), but next time around, try to have faith that that test writers know what they're doing and know how to write a test that produces your number, even if one section seems unusually hard.


I'm banking on a steep curve for this one. There's no point cancelling for me, as long as the schools I've been accepted to won't rescind my scholarship offers, but on the off chance that there's a steep curve I might have a shot at my dream school. But here's another question. Sometimes particular questions are unscored. I'm not sure why, maybe because a HUGE number of test takers got it wrong? Well, everyone is flipping out about the circle game - which is the only game I'm confident in from the LG section. So when they strike a question do people who got it right lose the point, or do they just curve an extra point overall? Because that would lower my percentage of correct answers even further... Sorry if it's a dumb question, just not sure why certain question are struck.

Questions are usually only removed when an error is made (two right answers for instance) and I believe in super rare cases where it statistically deviates from the norm which isn't actually a huge number of people get it wrong, but the wrong people get it wrong. High scorers all getting it wrong while poor scorers get it right etc. I would seriously not worry about a point being removed from scoring as it's very uncommon. If by chance they do remove a question it is like it never happened, the test is re-equated with one less question.

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Clearly
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Re: Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby Clearly » Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:21 pm

PattyCake wrote:
Clearly wrote:1) Don't take a full test the day before the real test.
2) Don't listen to people that are telling you it was abnormally hard, or it's not your fault, or you shouldn't change your game plan, or seek to improve yourself for the retake. If curve balls wrecked your score you need to improve, not rest on your laurels...and the fact that anyone is saying otherwise is absurd.

I'm not trying to insult you, sometimes you get a test that isn't suited to your skills. The trick is not to rue your luck, it's to broaden your skills.


I'm sorry but I was easily over a 165 before those games in the last section. I have taken literally every LSAT available and pt'd over 170 on more than 1, consistently well over 160. I was also not remotely nervous, and in fact I enjoyed 2 of the sections (total nerd, I thought the reading comp passages were interesting). This test was a) harder than most I've seen overall, and b) had a RIDICULOUSLY hard lg section. And lg has become my best section by a wide margin in the last 3 months.

That's exactly my point. This is how the LSAT works. Every test has a section that sets the curve. Some have hard questions and loose curves, others are the opposite. You don't get to call a test hard until you get your score back, because you might have a curve that makes those hard questions balance out...
Regardless, there is a right answer for every question on that test, and not finding them isn't someone elses fault. This "it's a fluke" attitude is bullshit, and it's why people come back for a retake and get the same results. The scantron won't cut you slack, so stop cutting yourself slack. Curve balls happen on every test, the ability to deal with them is what makes high scorers high scorers. Study twice as hard and if you destroy the retake, it won't be because you got a lucky draw, it'll be because you were prepared for anything.

/rant

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PattyCake
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Re: Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby PattyCake » Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:28 pm

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logicfreak
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Re: Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby logicfreak » Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:03 pm

perfectSCore wrote:Just took the Feb test, my first administration, and ended up canceling by the end of it. Recently i've been scoring ~171-174, never scored below 168 over 30 PT's including diagnostic, as high as 178 twice, and to top it all off scored a 177 on the Dec 2013 test yesterday. Current scores on average going into today was 0-2 LG, 0-2 first LR, 2-4 second LR, 3-5 RC. Usually don't feel bad about more than 1 or 2 questions on the whole test.

Today i don't know what happened, maybe i should have been waking up earlier to simulate test day, maybe i should have taken a break yesterday, or maybe there was just a disproportionate amount of question types that i am bad at, but my first three sections weren't great and i wasn't feeling too hot headed into the break. Was still somewhat confident that i could salvage the test by doing well on the LG which i hadn't had yet but i thought this tests LG was one of the hardest LG's i've ever had and I ended up not finishing 3 questions and being unsure of about 3 more. I was so upset by this headed into the last section that i didn't do great on the last section either, although i'm still pretty sure it was again, harder than normal by a significant margin. After completing it i, in my upsetness, immediately filled out the cancel circles and signed my name. Normally after i take a test i feel its possible to score upper 170's and sometimes do, but usually just miss a few questions i didn't expect to and sit on low-mid 170's. Today there were 7 questions i more or less guessed on and about 7 i was very unsure about, and i figured that i was going to miss at least 15 and possibly to 20 by the time all the questions i didn't think i missed but missed were factored in.

I don't even know. Super upset right now. Of all the possible outcomes today i didn't imagine once i would end up doing so bad or feelings so bad about it. I don't even know where to go from here; it's not like i have much to fix or can prep more - i'm already scoring possibly as high as i can reliably score so what the fuck am i supposed to do in the future to not fuck up? I don't know what the fuck was wrong today, i started being less sharp but that may have been a factor of me being upset after the first 2 sections and i had much less time than i usually do. I didn't feel that nervous at all. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck fuck fuck fucu fukcukcufckufc

Anyone else do significantly worse on test day? What did you do the next time around/what happened the first time?



dude. reading this was crazy. our situations seriously could not be any more identical. depressing, confusing, etc etc. i dont even know.

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Attax
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Re: Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby Attax » Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:23 pm

Everyone feels this way. I went from feeling confident to feeling horrible like I bombed it.

Wait it out, get your scores, and then see if you bombed it.

I'm sorry but I was easily over a 165 before those games in the last section. I have taken literally every LSAT available and pt'd over 170 on more than 1, consistently well over 160. I was also not remotely nervous, and in fact I enjoyed 2 of the sections (total nerd, I thought the reading comp passages were interesting). This test was a) harder than most I've seen overall, and b) had a RIDICULOUSLY hard lg section. And lg has become my best section by a wide margin in the last 3 months.


You are thinking about it way wrong. You were far from over 165. Why? Because you didn't have the raw points to be at 165+, the LSAT is about earning points, not averaging where you are based on 3 sections. You may have been on the track to 165+ but were not there yet. If you were consistently well over 160 but claiming to have a few over 170, that means you probably were barely breaking 170 and far from averaging 170+. In this instance, restudy and retake.

delusional
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Re: Anyone else bomb the test compared to their PT's?

Postby delusional » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:18 pm

logicfreak wrote:
perfectSCore wrote:Just took the Feb test, my first administration, and ended up canceling by the end of it. Recently i've been scoring ~171-174, never scored below 168 over 30 PT's including diagnostic, as high as 178 twice, and to top it all off scored a 177 on the Dec 2013 test yesterday. Current scores on average going into today was 0-2 LG, 0-2 first LR, 2-4 second LR, 3-5 RC. Usually don't feel bad about more than 1 or 2 questions on the whole test.

Today i don't know what happened, maybe i should have been waking up earlier to simulate test day, maybe i should have taken a break yesterday, or maybe there was just a disproportionate amount of question types that i am bad at, but my first three sections weren't great and i wasn't feeling too hot headed into the break. Was still somewhat confident that i could salvage the test by doing well on the LG which i hadn't had yet but i thought this tests LG was one of the hardest LG's i've ever had and I ended up not finishing 3 questions and being unsure of about 3 more. I was so upset by this headed into the last section that i didn't do great on the last section either, although i'm still pretty sure it was again, harder than normal by a significant margin. After completing it i, in my upsetness, immediately filled out the cancel circles and signed my name. Normally after i take a test i feel its possible to score upper 170's and sometimes do, but usually just miss a few questions i didn't expect to and sit on low-mid 170's. Today there were 7 questions i more or less guessed on and about 7 i was very unsure about, and i figured that i was going to miss at least 15 and possibly to 20 by the time all the questions i didn't think i missed but missed were factored in.

I don't even know. Super upset right now. Of all the possible outcomes today i didn't imagine once i would end up doing so bad or feelings so bad about it. I don't even know where to go from here; it's not like i have much to fix or can prep more - i'm already scoring possibly as high as i can reliably score so what the fuck am i supposed to do in the future to not fuck up? I don't know what the fuck was wrong today, i started being less sharp but that may have been a factor of me being upset after the first 2 sections and i had much less time than i usually do. I didn't feel that nervous at all. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck fuck fuck fucu fukcukcufckufc

Anyone else do significantly worse on test day? What did you do the next time around/what happened the first time?



dude. reading this was crazy. our situations seriously could not be any more identical. depressing, confusing, etc etc. i dont even know.
This happened to me three years ago. Almost identical PT scores and I knew I bombed the real thing. Canceled right away and all I wanted to know at the time was that it happens that you bomb one test even after consistent PTs and could still do well on a retake.

I can confirm now that it happens. I kept practicing, recognized new weaknesses and improved on old ones. Then I got a 178 on the next administration. Keep your head up, and keep improving; you'll do even better on the re-take than you expected to do now.




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