The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

MDJ2588
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:22 am

Re: The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

Postby MDJ2588 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:18 pm

lawschool2014hopeful wrote:
MDJ2588 wrote:I certainly agree with you to the fullest extent that I need to "get smarter" when it comes to the LSAT, but thats the whole point no matter what your initial cold diagnostic. My life style in general has changed, and will utlimately will change even greater from this point till test day. Primarily due to your article, your overall premise/conclusion has truly inspire me, yet gave me a humble notion of what this test is truly about. Perhaps I was extremely exhausted when I wrote that post, but I will clarify that I don't believe that with enough studying, meaning enough in terms of the linear nature of time, I mean the term enough in the nature of overall knowledge. As for example purposes, you can have an individual study for 4-months, thus being "enough" to achieve a satisfactory score to be a competitive candidate for most T-14 schools, but the said person EFFECTIVELY PREPARED for the test, rather then ENOUGH STUDYING. To clarity further, from all the research I've conducted, the life style changes I have made, including but not less then hanging every 180ers study guide, purchasing the most effective/popular Prep Material, being a TLS member, conducting approximately two months prior to this day effectively learning the nature of this test, eating healthy, exercising when I can, reading as many academic scholarly articles as time will allow, and perhaps most of all devise a concise yet effective strategy to conquer this test with not just a logistical sense, but as in a systematic process of cognitive thought. In other words making the test questions 2nd nature to me, just as I have the ability to instantly know 2+2=4, I must instinctually know the nature of this test. I don't believe in a "Get Rich Quick Scheme", but I do believe in definitely if a person fully understand the mechanics, and design of the Test they will score above 90% of the rest of students. The one thing that every high-scorer, including yourself realized was rather then knowing the answer to the question, you know "HOW" to answer the question, you and your fellow high scorers knew precisely the answers not based off memory, but through repetitive conditioning, retrieving this information on instincts rather the short term memorization. I think its outrageous to statement that if you have a low cold diagnostic score your chances to increase this drastically is unlikely. I took the cold diagnostic to get a feel for the test, not to see what I was capable of. Of coarse I am not going to have a high score, because I never been test nor understood the requirements for such a test.


I think the attitude in this response is better than the previous post you have made. But you have to understand, this is not only a test of logical mechanics, but your ability to handle stress in an extremely fast-paced/intense environment. By being completely obsessed with an insanely unrealistic target (not just for you, a 180 is extremely unrealistic for anyone) as your post indicates, you induce more stress, impede performance, introduce frustration, which most of the time ultimately leads to failure. If I were to guess I think you are a definite fan of Gladwell. Look, practice can get you so far, but with a such a baseline you have, its effect will have its limits. Changing habits and your life to become "smarter" is definitely going to help you reach the upper limits of your capabilities, but genetics and early childhood development will have a ceiling.

Be realistic with yourself, dont shoot for 180 right away. You dont aim to be a pro NHL player when you cant even walk.

One step at a time, master your mechanics, shoot for the 150s, then the 160s, then so forth.

Shooting for the stars in 1 go will only lead to frustration or insanity.


I do agree with you somewhat on this perspective. I also failed to assert that my third diagnostic PT 29 was a 153 un-timed, and this was after a minimal assessment of three weeks of studying, I had only read Chapters 1-3 in the LG Bible, and read Chapter One in the LR Bible. On the scale of genetics, if anything I serve at the advantage, my biological Father is incredibly brilliant, he achieved his undergraduate degree at Colombia University, and proceeded to graduate school at Wharton Business School, unfortunately he suffers from Bi-Polar Disorder and Schizophrenia, but thats a whole other topic, and my Mother was a business owner of a successful salon in Garden City, N.Y. Though she wasn't incredibly book smart her motivation was equally useful. I never cared about school when I was young because it came to easy to me, I was never challenged by the world of academia, now at 25 yrs old I am engrossed by it, I absorb knowledge like a sponge. So yes genetics can play a factor as well, as early childhood development, I attended one of the most prestigious Catholic High Schools in Long Island, N.Y. Also, was placed in advanced Reading Courses, none of which I cared, but naturally had a strong sense of literary/interpretational abilities. I am have an uncanny ability to memorize a vast amount of useless/important facts, as well as being able to read virtually any literature (in English of coarse), including Socrates,Thucydides, etc. Shakespeare not so much, not big into the creative writing, but philosophy, politics,logistical writing I can excel in. Timing is perhaps my most difficult hurdle in this exam, the content I feel is essentially learnable, the timing is conditional, and relative to the reparative use PTs. I don't get stressed easily at all, not to discuss my lives story, but essentially Ive endured many of lives stressors in the earlier duration of my life, so this test is certainly not a means of distress in regards to my mental stability. What I feel (truly feel, doubt free) is what will happen.

moralsentiments
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:11 pm

Re: The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

Postby moralsentiments » Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:38 pm

MDJ2588 wrote:
lawschool2014hopeful wrote:
MDJ2588 wrote:I certainly agree with you to the fullest extent that I need to "get smarter" when it comes to the LSAT, but thats the whole point no matter what your initial cold diagnostic. My life style in general has changed, and will utlimately will change even greater from this point till test day. Primarily due to your article, your overall premise/conclusion has truly inspire me, yet gave me a humble notion of what this test is truly about. Perhaps I was extremely exhausted when I wrote that post, but I will clarify that I don't believe that with enough studying, meaning enough in terms of the linear nature of time, I mean the term enough in the nature of overall knowledge. As for example purposes, you can have an individual study for 4-months, thus being "enough" to achieve a satisfactory score to be a competitive candidate for most T-14 schools, but the said person EFFECTIVELY PREPARED for the test, rather then ENOUGH STUDYING. To clarity further, from all the research I've conducted, the life style changes I have made, including but not less then hanging every 180ers study guide, purchasing the most effective/popular Prep Material, being a TLS member, conducting approximately two months prior to this day effectively learning the nature of this test, eating healthy, exercising when I can, reading as many academic scholarly articles as time will allow, and perhaps most of all devise a concise yet effective strategy to conquer this test with not just a logistical sense, but as in a systematic process of cognitive thought. In other words making the test questions 2nd nature to me, just as I have the ability to instantly know 2+2=4, I must instinctually know the nature of this test. I don't believe in a "Get Rich Quick Scheme", but I do believe in definitely if a person fully understand the mechanics, and design of the Test they will score above 90% of the rest of students. The one thing that every high-scorer, including yourself realized was rather then knowing the answer to the question, you know "HOW" to answer the question, you and your fellow high scorers knew precisely the answers not based off memory, but through repetitive conditioning, retrieving this information on instincts rather the short term memorization. I think its outrageous to statement that if you have a low cold diagnostic score your chances to increase this drastically is unlikely. I took the cold diagnostic to get a feel for the test, not to see what I was capable of. Of coarse I am not going to have a high score, because I never been test nor understood the requirements for such a test.


I think the attitude in this response is better than the previous post you have made. But you have to understand, this is not only a test of logical mechanics, but your ability to handle stress in an extremely fast-paced/intense environment. By being completely obsessed with an insanely unrealistic target (not just for you, a 180 is extremely unrealistic for anyone) as your post indicates, you induce more stress, impede performance, introduce frustration, which most of the time ultimately leads to failure. If I were to guess I think you are a definite fan of Gladwell. Look, practice can get you so far, but with a such a baseline you have, its effect will have its limits. Changing habits and your life to become "smarter" is definitely going to help you reach the upper limits of your capabilities, but genetics and early childhood development will have a ceiling.

Be realistic with yourself, dont shoot for 180 right away. You dont aim to be a pro NHL player when you cant even walk.

One step at a time, master your mechanics, shoot for the 150s, then the 160s, then so forth.

Shooting for the stars in 1 go will only lead to frustration or insanity.


I do agree with you somewhat on this perspective. I also failed to assert that my third diagnostic PT 29 was a 153 un-timed, and this was after a minimal assessment of three weeks of studying, I had only read Chapters 1-3 in the LG Bible, and read Chapter One in the LR Bible. On the scale of genetics, if anything I serve at the advantage, my biological Father is incredibly brilliant, he achieved his undergraduate degree at Colombia University, and proceeded to graduate school at Wharton Business School, unfortunately he suffers from Bi-Polar Disorder and Schizophrenia, but thats a whole other topic, and my Mother was a business owner of a successful salon in Garden City, N.Y. Though she wasn't incredibly book smart her motivation was equally useful. I never cared about school when I was young because it came to easy to me, I was never challenged by the world of academia, now at 25 yrs old I am engrossed by it, I absorb knowledge like a sponge. So yes genetics can play a factor as well, as early childhood development, I attended one of the most prestigious Catholic High Schools in Long Island, N.Y. Also, was placed in advanced Reading Courses, none of which I cared, but naturally had a strong sense of literary/interpretational abilities. I am have an uncanny ability to memorize a vast amount of useless/important facts, as well as being able to read virtually any literature (in English of coarse), including Socrates,Thucydides, etc. Shakespeare not so much, not big into the creative writing, but philosophy, politics,logistical writing I can excel in. Timing is perhaps my most difficult hurdle in this exam, the content I feel is essentially learnable, the timing is conditional, and relative to the reparative use PTs. I don't get stressed easily at all, not to discuss my lives story, but essentially Ive endured many of lives stressors in the earlier duration of my life, so this test is certainly not a means of distress in regards to my mental stability. What I feel (truly feel, doubt free) is what will happen.


Your humility is refreshing...

lawschool2014hopeful
Posts: 554
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:48 pm

Re: The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

Postby lawschool2014hopeful » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:07 pm

@MDJ For the sake of not derailing the thread, I am going to stop responding to your commentary. I would highly recommend you check back on this thread 3 months from now.

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cron1834
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Re: The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

Postby cron1834 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:02 pm

MDJ may be the worst writer I've ever seen on TLS.

10052014
Posts: 590
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:12 am

.

Postby 10052014 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:19 pm

.
Last edited by 10052014 on Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lawschool2014hopeful
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Re: The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

Postby lawschool2014hopeful » Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:35 am

jaylawyer09 wrote:This guide was very insightful.

However, it seemed to de-motivate me.

This makes me feel like I wont hit 170+. I will not be reading this guide in the future.

P.S. I liked how he noted the "phases" of TLS.


Thanks, I think?

Is better to be realistic IMO. I am all for people shooting for high goals, but people ought to do it in small steps. Not 120-180.

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bombaysippin
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Re: The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

Postby bombaysippin » Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:14 am

cron1834 wrote:MDJ may be the worst writer I've ever seen on TLS.


Omg...I couldn't even get through it. Rather do 5 sections of RC.

On a more relevant note great job with the guide and refreshing honesty

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ManoftheHour
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Re: The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

Postby ManoftheHour » Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:34 am

Bajam wrote:
cron1834 wrote:MDJ may be the worst writer I've ever seen on TLS.


Omg...I couldn't even get through it. Rather do 5 sections of RC.

On a more relevant note great job with the guide and refreshing honesty


:lol:

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cron1834
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Re: The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

Postby cron1834 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:18 am

+1

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CocoSunshine
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Re: The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

Postby CocoSunshine » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:57 am

This guide is genuinely refreshing, while not necessarily demotivating. Success on the LSAT is a combination of many factors (how many efforts you put into the test, what materials you use, how effectively you learn, your ability to handle stress, distractions in life, even your language ability especially for us internationals). Some like learning ability are not easily improved within a short amount of time. There is no way that bible/manhattan/trainer+3-month study will guarantee a success. What we can do is to stop doing wrong things and develop good habits.

Thank you for making this guide! We need different voice!

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RobertGolddust
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Re: The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

Postby RobertGolddust » Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:57 am

Thanks for the guide :D

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SecondWind
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Re: The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

Postby SecondWind » Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:14 pm

lawschool2014hopeful wrote:2012ish: Blueprint/LSAT Blog, BPShinner and LSAT Steve were active on TLS and made a small following on TLS as well
. Personally never tried this, but I seen some of BP’s stuff, not much different from other
companies.

2012-now: 7Sage hype. Although not magical in that it guarantees -0s on games like many would claim, the techniques and the way they said to practice games is extremely effective. No experience with their LR component. I have glimpsed through some of their R.C videos, not much different from other companies.

2013-now: The Trainer hype. Mike Kim creates a thread, and everyone on TLS is saying this is the next greatest thing which will guarantee a 170. I have read the sample chapters, it is fairly good, but it definitely does not contain significant insights one could not find elsewhere.


2012ish: "Never tried it" but saw some stuff and are rendering a decision that it's not different.

2012-now: "Took a glimpse" yielded "not much different"

2013-now: "Read the sample chapters" because we all know that authors are going to give away their best insights in their FREE chapters so you avoid buying the book.


I think you get where I'm going. If you haven't read the book or taken the class, how can you legitimately state that they aren't different?

It's like saying that a Sony DVD player isn't better than a RCA DVD player because you were at Walmart and saw the Sony's box and it looked the same as the RCA.

I have significant exposure to The Trainer, LSAT Blog, All 3 Bibles, MLSAT and yes even Kaplan. I can honestly sit here and tell you that everyone of those systems/books teaches at least one aspect of the LSAT better than all the others. Period.

Nevertheless, it takes balls and time to write down your journey and I respect that. I also am happy for you for the score you earned. You clawed your way to a 170 and you should be damn proud of yourself for it. Nobody can take it from you. Nobody.

lawschool2014hopeful
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:48 pm

Re: The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

Postby lawschool2014hopeful » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:41 pm

@Bajam, MTH, Cron, Coco, Robert. Thanks, I hope you will find it helpful in your journey, even though I know MTH you have been in this as long as I have.

SecondWind wrote:
lawschool2014hopeful wrote:2012ish: Blueprint/LSAT Blog, BPShinner and LSAT Steve were active on TLS and made a small following on TLS as well
. Personally never tried this, but I seen some of BP’s stuff, not much different from other
companies.

2012-now: 7Sage hype. Although not magical in that it guarantees -0s on games like many would claim, the techniques and the way they said to practice games is extremely effective. No experience with their LR component. I have glimpsed through some of their R.C videos, not much different from other companies.

2013-now: The Trainer hype. Mike Kim creates a thread, and everyone on TLS is saying this is the next greatest thing which will guarantee a 170. I have read the sample chapters, it is fairly good, but it definitely does not contain significant insights one could not find elsewhere.


2012ish: "Never tried it" but saw some stuff and are rendering a decision that it's not different.

2012-now: "Took a glimpse" yielded "not much different"

2013-now: "Read the sample chapters" because we all know that authors are going to give away their best insights in their FREE chapters so you avoid buying the book.


I think you get where I'm going. If you haven't read the book or taken the class, how can you legitimately state that they aren't different?

It's like saying that a Sony DVD player isn't better than a RCA DVD player because you were at Walmart and saw the Sony's box and it looked the same as the RCA.

I have significant exposure to The Trainer, LSAT Blog, All 3 Bibles, MLSAT and yes even Kaplan. I can honestly sit here and tell you that everyone of those systems/books teaches at least one aspect of the LSAT better than all the others. Period.

Nevertheless, it takes balls and time to write down your journey and I respect that. I also am happy for you for the score you earned. You clawed your way to a 170 and you should be damn proud of yourself for it. Nobody can take it from you. Nobody.


I think you missed the point. Even using your analogy, at the end of the day, both are them are just mere DVD players, no prep company or book is going to give you the 170+ magic pill people think to exist with these prep companies.

I am sure there are "significant" differences between The Trainer and Blueprint, but at the end of the day, they are just both dvd players, a fancy playback function is not going to help you play the video better.

To give you a bit more perspective, when I was studying in the first year, I genuinely believed every prep company was better than the last, and it was going to magically fix all my problems. But once you step back and seen multiple prep companies, you will understand all of them are just redressing the same basic mechanics of logic and reading comprehension abilities.

MDJ2588
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Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:22 am

Re: The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

Postby MDJ2588 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:18 pm

Just some "food for thought" on the subject of LSAT Prep, and the overall cognitive as well as structural developments that our brain undergoes as we increase our reasoning skills.


Very interesting article....https://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2012/08 ... structure/

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bombaysippin
Posts: 1977
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Re: The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

Postby bombaysippin » Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:28 pm

Oh my journey with the LSAT is over, but I read through what you had to say cause I agree with Jeffort that not enough people get to hear stuff like this. Definitely can relate to how you felt and so hopefully others can feel they're not alone in hitting that 99th percentile.

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alexrodriguez
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Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 4:59 am

Re: The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

Postby alexrodriguez » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:43 am

Can this be made available somewhere else, please? I'm not able to access this website off a government computer for some reason.

lawschool2014hopeful
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:48 pm

Re: The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

Postby lawschool2014hopeful » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:51 am

louierodriguez wrote:Can this be made available somewhere else, please? I'm not able to access this website off a government computer for some reason.


PM me your email and ill send it to you.

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cloy26
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:49 pm

Re: The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

Postby cloy26 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:23 pm

@OP, Thanks for the guide! I retook in February and feel I scored well below my potential - we'll see.

This recount of your journey is refreshing and sobering. It's easy to get caught up in the TLS environment and acknowledging that fact is important (for me). I was caught up with not skipping another cycle, but I realize now that possibly under-performing in February could be a blessing in disguise. I'm going to take some time off and then start again, filling in the cracks and expanding on my foundation - pending the score, of course.

Thanks again! Also, if you have any specific suggestions w/ regard to books, journals, etc., please share. A Short History of Nearly Everything is currently in transit to my doorstep so anything literature based would be good.
Last edited by cloy26 on Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

lawschool2014hopeful
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:48 pm

Re: The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

Postby lawschool2014hopeful » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:49 pm

@Cloy. I am glad you found it helpful. It is so hard to get perspective on this test when you are bombarded daily with the same mantra, you can be in the 99th percentile if you just try hard enough! By that I just mean 3 months + Flavor of the month guide!!

As for book suggestions, I honestly tried a various of literature crap. I fell sleep reading all of them, didnt learn a single thing. If you really have a weakness in literature, enrolling in an introduction class would be the best, as you would have reasons/incentive to actually learn literature, and those classes are usually full of cute girls :).

lawschool2014hopeful
Posts: 554
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:48 pm

Re: The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

Postby lawschool2014hopeful » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:57 pm

Now taking mentoring/tutoring/skype requests at the cost of nothing

(well, 1 cent minimum, so I could put self-employed LSAT tutor on resume)

Sid
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Re: The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

Postby Sid » Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:02 am

lawschool2014hopeful wrote:Now taking mentoring/tutoring/skype requests at the cost of nothing

(well, 1 cent minimum, so I could put self-employed LSAT tutor on resume)


This would be handy for me. I need help.


I assume you applied to several law schools? What are you up to now?

lawschool2014hopeful
Posts: 554
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:48 pm

Re: The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

Postby lawschool2014hopeful » Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:07 am

Sid wrote:
lawschool2014hopeful wrote:Now taking mentoring/tutoring/skype requests at the cost of nothing

(well, 1 cent minimum, so I could put self-employed LSAT tutor on resume)


This would be handy for me. I need help.


I assume you applied to several law schools? What are you up to now?


pm me your details. Ill respond.

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CAVETI
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Re: The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

Postby CAVETI » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:14 am

lawschool2014hopeful wrote:Now taking mentoring/tutoring/skype requests at the cost of nothing

(well, 1 cent minimum, so I could put self-employed LSAT tutor on resume)


I think I would benefit greatly from this, so I'm interested in your tutoring services.

By the way, thank you for sharing man, this is a great motivational piece.

lawschool2014hopeful
Posts: 554
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:48 pm

Re: The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

Postby lawschool2014hopeful » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:52 am

CAVETI wrote:
lawschool2014hopeful wrote:Now taking mentoring/tutoring/skype requests at the cost of nothing

(well, 1 cent minimum, so I could put self-employed LSAT tutor on resume)


I think I would benefit greatly from this, so I'm interested in your tutoring services.

By the way, thank you for sharing man, this is a great motivational piece.


I sent you a pm few days ago, read it, the timezone is Eastern Time Zone (UTC-05:00)

kcdc1
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Re: The "Guide", My Story of 145-170.

Postby kcdc1 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:54 am

Congrats on your achievement. Your effort is inspiring. I hope you do well in law school, and given your work ethic, I know you'll do well as an attorney.




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