February 2014 Waiters Forum

[southernclass]

So, my boss (District Attorney) tells me it isn't the end of the world if I don't do well on LSAT. Clearly she doesn't remember the LSAT. In fact, she told me she doesn't even remember studying for it, and she thinks she did pretty well. What the crap?! Has the LSAT and law school admissions in general become more difficult than years ago??? Also, I'm around a lot of attorneys and not one (that I've spoken to about the LSAT) has taken it more than once.

[Mack.Hambleton]

.

[southernclass]

>still thinking scores won't be released tomorrow

overnight precipitation for Newtown is 2-4 inches according to weather.com

Maybe if LSAC is proactive and good planners, they would have checked the weather and decided to release scores today! ***optimistic***

[Nucky]

Is it realistic at all to think there may be a possibility of LSAC releasing scores today, being a Sunday???

It's possible, according to at least one site I've read.

************holding breath**************

Possible but very unlikely. You should breathe.

[Mack.Hambleton]

yeah 0 chance they're coming today

[southernclass]

Is it realistic at all to think there may be a possibility of LSAC releasing scores today, being a Sunday???

It's possible, according to at least one site I've read.

************holding breath**************

Possible but very unlikely. You should breathe.

Turning blue

[NoLieAbility]

So, my boss (District Attorney) tells me it isn't the end of the world if I don't do well on LSAT. Clearly she doesn't remember the LSAT. In fact, she told me she doesn't even remember studying for it, and she thinks she did pretty well. What the crap?! Has the LSAT and law school admissions in general become more difficult than years ago??? Also, I'm around a lot of attorneys and not one (that I've spoken to about the LSAT) has taken it more than once.

A few things to bear in mind...

1. The 90s

Many of the attorneys who you interact with will have started out somewhere between the later 1980s and the early 2000s. When they were going in to law school, the market was such that simply graduating was enough for a decent shot at a legal career. Because there wasn't nearly the job scarcity there is today, they didn't need to work as hard to get in to the best law schools, and many of them didn't.

2. Percentiles Matter

The last figure I was from the ABA said that around 65% of graduating law students were working in the legal field. (I'm sure my number is slightly off, but that shouldn't impact my point overall.) Most TLSers are shooting for a score at 170+, which would place them in the top 3% of all test takers. As you slide back along the curve, you'll see that the percentage of people at every score who succeed gets smaller, but it doesn't just drop away at 169. Many intelligent people will be able to score in the high 150s/low 160s without any preparation, and combined with point #1, that may well be enough.

3. Selection Bias

I don't know your environment, so I'll speak to my own. I have very strong relationships with two attorneys in my home town. One of them is a professor at the local TTT law school, and the other is a practicing attorney who is widely considered one of the top two or three litigators in the state. When I discussed the LSAT with the latter, he laughed and shrugged and said, "I wish I hadn't been so hung over when I took it. I may have gotten in to a better law school." When I talk to the former, he said, "The first time that I took the test, I didn't do very well. I decided that I really wanted to teach, though, so I took it a second time a year later. I studied hard in between, and I did much better the second time."

There are remarkably successful lawyers out there who didn't do well on the LSAT. There are also remarkably successful lawyers out there who went to terrible schools, and made terrible grades at them. In the business world many things come in to play, and a strong ability to bullshit can overcome a poor work ethic. The LSAT won't give you an amazing career, it just determines (in part) where you can start.

[thevuch]

So, my boss (District Attorney) tells me it isn't the end of the world if I don't do well on LSAT. Clearly she doesn't remember the LSAT. In fact, she told me she doesn't even remember studying for it, and she thinks she did pretty well. What the crap?! Has the LSAT and law school admissions in general become more difficult than years ago??? Also, I'm around a lot of attorneys and not one (that I've spoken to about the LSAT) has taken it more than once.

A few things to bear in mind...

1. The 90s

Many of the attorneys who you interact with will have started out somewhere between the later 1980s and the early 2000s. When they were going in to law school, the market was such that simply graduating was enough for a decent shot at a legal career. Because there wasn't nearly the job scarcity there is today, they didn't need to work as hard to get in to the best law schools, and many of them didn't.

2. Percentiles Matter

The last figure I was from the ABA said that around 65% of graduating law students were working in the legal field. (I'm sure my number is slightly off, but that shouldn't impact my point overall.) Most TLSers are shooting for a score at 170+, which would place them in the top 3% of all test takers. As you slide back along the curve, you'll see that the percentage of people at every score who succeed gets smaller, but it doesn't just drop away at 169. Many intelligent people will be able to score in the high 150s/low 160s without any preparation, and combined with point #1, that may well be enough.

3. Selection Bias

I don't know your environment, so I'll speak to my own. I have very strong relationships with two attorneys in my home town. One of them is a professor at the local TTT law school, and the other is a practicing attorney who is widely considered one of the top two or three litigators in the state. When I discussed the LSAT with the latter, he laughed and shrugged and said, "I wish I hadn't been so hung over when I took it. I may have gotten in to a better law school." When I talk to the former, he said, "The first time that I took the test, I didn't do very well. I decided that I really wanted to teach, though, so I took it a second time a year later. I studied hard in between, and I did much better the second time."

There are remarkably successful lawyers out there who didn't do well on the LSAT. There are also remarkably successful lawyers out there who went to terrible schools, and made terrible grades at them. In the business world many things come in to play, and a strong ability to bullshit can overcome a poor work ethic. The LSAT won't give you an amazing career, it just determines (in part) where you can start.

this is good stuff. i think it is important ot remember kind of like you said the 70s 80s and even 90s were the "golden age" for the legal profession as i have heard it called. and i know an attorney who graduated near the bottom of his class and had to take the lsat twice to get into a top 50 school but now hes CEO of a major corporation here in the south. and his career there started as a basic in-house counsel attorney so it can be done!

[ElliotNessquire]

'Most intelligent people will be able to score in the high 150s/low 160s without preparation.'



Sounds like a total TLS response. If that were the case, why would the national avg be a 151? Is there really that many idiots taking this test?

[barrelofmonkeys]

Is there really that many idiots taking this test?

[jk148706]

Is there really that many idiots taking this test?

Just lol'd

[Nucky]

So, my boss (District Attorney) tells me it isn't the end of the world if I don't do well on LSAT. Clearly she doesn't remember the LSAT. In fact, she told me she doesn't even remember studying for it, and she thinks she did pretty well. What the crap?! Has the LSAT and law school admissions in general become more difficult than years ago??? Also, I'm around a lot of attorneys and not one (that I've spoken to about the LSAT) has taken it more than once.

A few things to bear in mind...

1. The 90s

Many of the attorneys who you interact with will have started out somewhere between the later 1980s and the early 2000s. When they were going in to law school, the market was such that simply graduating was enough for a decent shot at a legal career. Because there wasn't nearly the job scarcity there is today, they didn't need to work as hard to get in to the best law schools, and many of them didn't.

2. Percentiles Matter

The last figure I was from the ABA said that around 65% of graduating law students were working in the legal field. (I'm sure my number is slightly off, but that shouldn't impact my point overall.) Most TLSers are shooting for a score at 170+, which would place them in the top 3% of all test takers. As you slide back along the curve, you'll see that the percentage of people at every score who succeed gets smaller, but it doesn't just drop away at 169. Many intelligent people will be able to score in the high 150s/low 160s without any preparation, and combined with point #1, that may well be enough.

3. Selection Bias

I don't know your environment, so I'll speak to my own. I have very strong relationships with two attorneys in my home town. One of them is a professor at the local TTT law school, and the other is a practicing attorney who is widely considered one of the top two or three litigators in the state. When I discussed the LSAT with the latter, he laughed and shrugged and said, "I wish I hadn't been so hung over when I took it. I may have gotten in to a better law school." When I talk to the former, he said, "The first time that I took the test, I didn't do very well. I decided that I really wanted to teach, though, so I took it a second time a year later. I studied hard in between, and I did much better the second time."

There are remarkably successful lawyers out there who didn't do well on the LSAT. There are also remarkably successful lawyers out there who went to terrible schools, and made terrible grades at them. In the business world many things come in to play, and a strong ability to bullshit can overcome a poor work ethic. The LSAT won't give you an amazing career, it just determines (in part) where you can start.

+1

Good stuff. It's important to keep things in perspective.

[thevuch]

LOLOLOLOL best moment of entire thread

[ElliotNessquire]

Is there really that many idiots taking this test?

<insert Don Corleone clapping .gif>

[NoLieAbility]

'Most intelligent people will be able to score in the high 150s/low 160s without preparation.'



Sounds like a total TLS response. If that were the case, why would the national avg be a 151? Is there really that many idiots taking this test?

Your inability to draw a genuine quote negates any chagrin which I might feel with regard to my clearly elitist position. The difference between 'most' and 'many' is semantically important. Furthermore, please take note of the word 'intelligent,' which is to say, 'not average.' Assuming there to be one standard deviation between an 'average' person and an 'intelligent' person - an assumption which I will not stipulate given that we have not agreed on the definition for either term - your actual contention is on my claim that the difference in said deviation could contain between five and fourteen points.

In summation: http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/RIvUMJ9ztsI/hqdefault.jpg

[HanShotFirst]

'Most intelligent people will be able to score in the high 150s/low 160s without preparation.'



Sounds like a total TLS response. If that were the case, why would the national avg be a 151? Is there really that many idiots taking this test?

TLS isn't that elitist. You're just not very informed.

[xylocarp]

GRAY ALERT GRAY ALERT THIS IS NOT A DRILL

[Baby_Got_Feuerbach]

GRAY

[thevuch]

omfg theyre gray

[thevuch]

OMFG XYLOCARP YOURE INCREDIBLE

[haus]

GRAY

[xylocarp]

OMFG XYLOCARP YOURE INCREDIBLE

I wasn't even checking regularly because I thought there was no chance of it happening today, this was like the third time I checked today (as opposed to Fri and Sat when I was on constant refresh mode)

[thevuch]

we should tiny chat

[Baby_Got_Feuerbach]

What's the ETA for the first batch/wave?

[ElliotNessquire]

we should tiny chat

What is tiny chat?