June 2014 Retakers Forum
- withoutapaddle
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Re: June 2014 Retakers
Welcome to the retake arena!
may the odds be ever in your favor
may the odds be ever in your favor
- santoki
- Posts: 894
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:19 pm
Re: June 2014 Retakers
hey all, gonna ask yall for a little help on a q...
pt30, sec.4, #14. the "joseph: my encyclopedia" question.
im trying to tell myself that im thinking of this in the right way.
so im thinking that C is correct because joseph is saying that since Fermat's theorem wasnt proven, he was lying or mistaken.
Laura is saying that is theorem WAS proven, so he WASNT lying or mistaken.
that to me is simply an incorrect negation.
however, the answer choice basically reads that she mistakes something necessary for something sufficient. to me, that means she mistakes ONE thing for a sufficient, whereas a complete incorrect negation means she would mistake TWO things. does this mean that going forward i can take those answer choices to mean that it could be both sides of the argument that she mistook?
^ i made it pretty confusing but hopefully you guys get the gist of it...thanks in advance!
pt30, sec.4, #14. the "joseph: my encyclopedia" question.
im trying to tell myself that im thinking of this in the right way.
so im thinking that C is correct because joseph is saying that since Fermat's theorem wasnt proven, he was lying or mistaken.
Laura is saying that is theorem WAS proven, so he WASNT lying or mistaken.
that to me is simply an incorrect negation.
however, the answer choice basically reads that she mistakes something necessary for something sufficient. to me, that means she mistakes ONE thing for a sufficient, whereas a complete incorrect negation means she would mistake TWO things. does this mean that going forward i can take those answer choices to mean that it could be both sides of the argument that she mistook?
^ i made it pretty confusing but hopefully you guys get the gist of it...thanks in advance!
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Re: June 2014 Retakers
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Last edited by NoDayButToday on Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
- FlyingNorth
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:25 am
Re: June 2014 Retakers
PT 41
LR: -1
LG: -2
LR: -7
RC: -2
171
Don't ask me wtf happened on that second LR section...I haven't taken this PT before though, so I've got that going for me which is nice.
LR: -1
LG: -2
LR: -7
RC: -2
171
Don't ask me wtf happened on that second LR section...I haven't taken this PT before though, so I've got that going for me which is nice.
- FlyingNorth
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:25 am
Re: June 2014 Retakers
Full disclosure, this is from the MLSAT forums. Check out their explanations of LR questions:santoki wrote:hey all, gonna ask yall for a little help on a q...
pt30, sec.4, #14. the "joseph: my encyclopedia" question.
im trying to tell myself that im thinking of this in the right way.
so im thinking that C is correct because joseph is saying that since Fermat's theorem wasnt proven, he was lying or mistaken.
Laura is saying that is theorem WAS proven, so he WASNT lying or mistaken.
that to me is simply an incorrect negation.
however, the answer choice basically reads that she mistakes something necessary for something sufficient. to me, that means she mistakes ONE thing for a sufficient, whereas a complete incorrect negation means she would mistake TWO things. does this mean that going forward i can take those answer choices to mean that it could be both sides of the argument that she mistook?
^ i made it pretty confusing but hopefully you guys get the gist of it...thanks in advance!
"Here I will diagram out both Joseph and Laura's arguments for you. It might clear up some of the confusion between the arguments.
Joseph basically says "Since no one has been able to prove the theorem it most likely cannot be proved, and since it cannot be proved that most likely Fermat was lying or mistaken." Some pretty bold claims, but here is how this would be diagramed to make finding the core of the argument much simpler.
Theorem not proven -> Prob. can't be proved -> lie or mistake
Laura then counters that recently his theorem was proved and so this shows that Ferman was not lying and he was not mistaken. So she takes Joseph's argument which says this:
Theorem not proven -> Prob. can't be proved -> lie or mistake
And she reaches a conclusion that says this:
Theorem proven ---> ~lying and ~mistaken
If you compare this diagram to the one up top you will see that Laura has taken Joseph's argument and negated the sufficient condition and negated the necessary condition. This is known as a mistaken negation in conditional logic. (If you are not seeing this then take the time to check out pages 61-63 of the manhattan Logical Reasoning guide.)
Now you might ask "Okay, but how does a mistaken negation allow us to come to the answer choice presented in C where it says: "It mistakes something that is necessary for its conclusion to follow for something that ensures that the conclusion follows."
The term ensures is synonymous with sufficient so what the answer choice is saying is that "It mistakes a necessary condition for a sufficient condition." If you put it in the context of the argument it is saying "Laura takes the conditional relationship that Joseph gives us and commits a mistaken reversal with it. A mistaken reversal is the contrapositive or logical equivalent of a mistaken negation which allows us to infer answer choice C.
On another note conditional logic is one of the most frequently tested concepts of this test. Being able to do it backwards, forward, in your sleep, find it in arguments in the newspaper, on NPR, and the myriad other places you can encounter it in daily life will only serve to help you succeed on this test. I highly suggest to anyone to study it inside and out and really internalize it.
Let me know if you need anything clarified in my explanation."
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- withoutapaddle
- Posts: 451
- Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:29 pm
Re: June 2014 Retakers
Good job on the 171!
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- Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:24 am
Re: June 2014 Retakers
That LR 2 was a bitch. Good job killing the rest of it though!FlyingNorth wrote:PT 41
LR: -1
LG: -2
LR: -7
RC: -2
171
Don't ask me wtf happened on that second LR section...I haven't taken this PT before though, so I've got that going for me which is nice.
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- Posts: 56
- Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:38 pm
Re: June 2014 Retakers
jealous of your RC.FlyingNorth wrote:PT 41
LR: -1
LG: -2
LR: -7
RC: -2
171
Don't ask me wtf happened on that second LR section...I haven't taken this PT before though, so I've got that going for me which is nice.
- FlyingNorth
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:25 am
Re: June 2014 Retakers
Good to know. I missed a lot of them even after blind review.rebexness wrote:That LR 2 was a bitch. Good job killing the rest of it though!FlyingNorth wrote:PT 41
LR: -1
LG: -2
LR: -7
RC: -2
171
Don't ask me wtf happened on that second LR section...I haven't taken this PT before though, so I've got that going for me which is nice.
ETA: Congrats on the same score on your PT, reb!
- alecks
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:24 pm
Re: June 2014 Retakers
starting the trainer today! think I can get through it in 2 weeks?
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- Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:24 am
Re: June 2014 Retakers
How many hours per day are you planning to study?alecks wrote:starting the trainer today! think I can get through it in 2 weeks?
I'm pretty sure Mike Kim said either on the website, in the book, or in the thread, that the minimum time you should spend is 4 weeks, and even that is probably too abbreviated.
- FlyingNorth
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:25 am
Re: June 2014 Retakers
I agree. You could probably skim through it without doing the drilling exercises in 2 weeks, but you wouldn't be getting the most out of the lessons imo.rebexness wrote:How many hours per day are you planning to study?alecks wrote:starting the trainer today! think I can get through it in 2 weeks?
I'm pretty sure Mike Kim said either on the website, in the book, or in the thread, that the minimum time you should spend is 4 weeks, and even that is probably too abbreviated.
- dasani13
- Posts: 1062
- Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 3:21 pm
Re: June 2014 Retakers
If you're really strong in Games already you could skip those sections. I didn't like his take on Games so I wish I had skipped it and saved some time. Everything else is excellent, though.alecks wrote:starting the trainer today! think I can get through it in 2 weeks?
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- dd235
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:33 am
Re: June 2014 Retakers
I went through it in 2 weeks the last time I took the LSAT, but would not recommend it.alecks wrote:starting the trainer today! think I can get through it in 2 weeks?
This time around I did it more casually in about 4 weeks and I think it was much more effective.
- foamborn
- Posts: 108
- Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:29 pm
Re: June 2014 Retakers
What's so awesome about this Trainer? I don't think it was out last time I was studying.
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Re: June 2014 Retakers
Its the best.foamborn wrote:What's so awesome about this Trainer? I don't think it was out last time I was studying.
I think it came out last April/May.
It works through all three sections without resorting to any gimmicky nonsense.
- FlyingNorth
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:25 am
Re: June 2014 Retakers
Highly recommend that you get it.foamborn wrote:What's so awesome about this Trainer? I don't think it was out last time I was studying.
http://www.amazon.com/The-LSAT-Trainer- ... at+trainer
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- foamborn
- Posts: 108
- Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:29 pm
Re: June 2014 Retakers
Cool, cool. Will do. I royally messed up a PT today and am kind of shocked as I go back and look at the questions I missed.
- Lightworks
- Posts: 277
- Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:15 pm
Re: June 2014 Retakers
Checking in.
Took the June and October tests last year. I'm applying this cycle, but thinking about holding out for 2014/2015 and taking a shot at H if I can kick ass in June. Good luck, all.
Took the June and October tests last year. I'm applying this cycle, but thinking about holding out for 2014/2015 and taking a shot at H if I can kick ass in June. Good luck, all.
- FlyingNorth
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:25 am
Re: June 2014 Retakers
Welcome.Lightworks wrote:Checking in.
Took the June and October tests last year. I'm applying this cycle, but thinking about holding out for 2014/2015 and taking a shot at H if I can kick ass in June. Good luck, all.
What's everyone working on today?
- withoutapaddle
- Posts: 451
- Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:29 pm
Re: June 2014 Retakers
Linear logic games. I keep getting 1 wrong in each game
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- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:24 am
Re: June 2014 Retakers
Manhattan LR today. And the last two chapters of the Trainer that I hadn't bothered to make myself read yet.
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- Posts: 58
- Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:51 am
Re: June 2014 Retakers
What is the proper way to drill? I know that you drill the corresponding problems to whatever it is you're currently working in your book, but how many each day? Ive gone through LG and LR bible, and im now gonna do the Manhattan LR after about a month break. I just got the cambridge flaw questions and assumption questions from PT 1-38 in order of difficulty. Can someone tell me how to properly use these, maybe a regime? Thanks!
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Re: June 2014 Retakers
Same here. Guys, it's a really good book.rebexness wrote:Manhattan LR today.
- withoutapaddle
- Posts: 451
- Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:29 pm
Re: June 2014 Retakers
52 out of 61... 85% or roughly 20/23 on the normal test
Hopefully employers will be impressed with my math skills at oci haha
Hopefully employers will be impressed with my math skills at oci haha
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
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