The Official September 2014 Study Group Forum

[sfoglia]

I haven't gone -0 on RC in so long it makes me feel illiterate.

Grey, I've never gone -0 on an RC section and I have an MA in English from a T20. There's a reason why committees don't go, "Here answer these four passages on art, history, science, and law in thirty-five minutes, and we'll give you your English Ph.D."

[PeanutsNJam]

In retrospect I may have overreacted. A stranger's opinion of my state of preparation (or lack thereof) should have no bearing on anything. I would like any pointers that people have regarding RC accuracy that go beyond:

- Read a lot of stuff
- Learn general strategy
- Annotate the passage

Specifically, I've noticed an approach to acing LR cannot be applied to RC, because they're different sections.

Also, something I've learned:

Pedantic analysis of semantics behind individual words in answer choices/stimulus in LR is only necessary when two answer choices are incredibly similar. In all other cases, a general approach is sufficient, and one needn't look too deep into the question.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounded like from the other post that you originally had an answer correct but then changed your mind and selected the incorrect one?

I had something similar happen to me last night when I was drilling, where one of the words could fit, and be all-encompassing, and one definitely fit, but felt like it was lacking. The lacking one obviously was the correct choice. I think it was the difference between "compelling" and "guiding," in which guiding was right. But the passage discussed manipulation, so I was leaning toward "compelling." It was "guiding," naturally.

Anyway, my point is, with those kinds of questions, it definitely comes down to semantics and it is incredibly pedantic. But otherwise, you do have to be super general. Case in point: Those MC questions that begin every passage are horrible. They're hardly ever adequate.

Are you using packets to study RC? Do you find you do better in one subject over another?

Yeah I realized I have to be selective in how deep I want to dig into particular questions. And I do perform much better on certain subjects over others, but I've learned that's just an issue with familiarity. I'm a bio/econ major, so I've read plenty biology and econ peer reviewed journal articles, so when it comes to science passages I feel at ease. Psychology and mentality definitely have a significant impact. Confidence matters.

I'm always nervous with MC questions but I've done quite well on them. IDK why. I should figure that out.

[Toby Ziegler]

We're like a highly dysfunctional family where the family members are dispensable.

FYI u need to post more

Dude, I know I feel so left out when I get to work in the morning and there is 6-29 pages to read through (and I read through each post!). But here is my schedule:

6:00 AM: wake up, shave, shower, get dressed, etc.
6:50 AM: turn on the news/SportsCenter
6:51 AM: start breakfast (just became a vegan, so cooking has become a bit more time consuming/challenging)
7:30 AM: Leave for work.
7:40 AM: start work
12:00 PM: get off work, eat lunch
12:30 PM: study for the LSAT
5:00 PM: Leave for home
5:08 PM: Arrive home
5:15 PM: play with my kids, help my wife with dinner, clean the house, start laundry, bath time, jammie time, etc.
8:30 PM: child #1 goes to bed
8:45 PM: after the house is clean we watch, How I Met Your Mother, The Office, The West Wing, something on the Food Network (Cut Throat Kitchen, Chopped, etc.), or a sporting event
10:30 PM: maybe do a few LG's or a LR section if I am not completely drained
11:15 PM: go to bed
11:45 PM: my wife joins me in bed if child #2 will let her

Well that turned out to be far more detailed than I originally intended. But that's why I only poast, in the morning/early afternoons. That's why we need a TLS reunion.

[PeanutsNJam]

...am I the only one who thinks this caution is warranted? The new tests are very different from the old tests (i.e. RC passages, Passage A vs Passage B, easier LR (imo)). It's less than 3 weeks before the real deal. I don't think his/her advice was meant to come across as snarky at all, and I agree with it, in fact.

It's true recent PTs are different from older PTs, but that's because each PT is slightly different. It's not a new vs old, it's PT 62 vs PT 53. Sure, they're different. Score X on 53 does not mean I'll get the same score on 10 or 70, but it also doesn't mean I'll get the same score on 52.

There's no point in fretting over "different PTs", the goal is to master every type of question, every type of trap. Therefore, you want to study a diverse range of PTs, not *just* the recent ones, or *just* the similar ones, etc.

[sfoglia]

In retrospect I may have overreacted. A stranger's opinion of my state of preparation (or lack thereof) should have no bearing on anything. I would like any pointers that people have regarding RC accuracy that go beyond:

- Read a lot of stuff
- Learn general strategy
- Annotate the passage

Specifically, I've noticed an approach to acing LR cannot be applied to RC, because they're different sections.

Also, something I've learned:

Pedantic analysis of semantics behind individual words in answer choices/stimulus in LR is only necessary when two answer choices are incredibly similar. In all other cases, a general approach is sufficient, and one needn't look too deep into the question.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounded like from the other post that you originally had an answer correct but then changed your mind and selected the incorrect one?

I had something similar happen to me last night when I was drilling, where one of the words could fit, and be all-encompassing, and one definitely fit, but felt like it was lacking. The lacking one obviously was the correct choice. I think it was the difference between "compelling" and "guiding," in which guiding was right. But the passage discussed manipulation, so I was leaning toward "compelling." It was "guiding," naturally.

Anyway, my point is, with those kinds of questions, it definitely comes down to semantics and it is incredibly pedantic. But otherwise, you do have to be super general. Case in point: Those MC questions that begin every passage are horrible. They're hardly ever adequate.

Are you using packets to study RC? Do you find you do better in one subject over another?

Yeah I realized I have to be selective in how deep I want to dig into particular questions. And I do perform much better on certain subjects over others, but I've learned that's just an issue with familiarity. I'm a bio/econ major, so I've read plenty biology and econ peer reviewed journal articles, so when it comes to science passages I feel at ease. Psychology and mentality definitely have a significant impact. Confidence matters.

I'm always nervous with MC questions but I've done quite well on them. IDK why. I should figure that out.

Maybe because you've done so many MC that at this point it is kind of intuitive for you?

Anyway, keep drilling, if only to feel like you've gained enough familiarity to be confident. I am most uncomfortable with the science passages, so I've been reviewing those heavily. I also re-do ones for which I've gotten multiple answers incorrect. Can't hurt. Do five passages a night or something. I have a lot of faith that within the next few weeks, you'll get comfortable down to -2 or less on RC. Clearly your understanding IS there, and it's just a matter of being able to correctly "guess" what answer LSAC prefers.

[Toby Ziegler]

I haven't gone -0 on RC in so long it makes me feel illiterate.

Grey, I've never gone -0 on an RC section and I have an MA in English from a T20. There's a reason why committees don't go, "Here answer these four passages on art, history, science, and law in thirty-five minutes, and we'll give you your English Ph.D."

One of my mentors who happened to attend SLS said that 2 weeks prior to his sitting for the test he read an essay from a philosopher in one of his philosophy classes (I want to say it was Kant, but I can't remember), and then a snippet from that same essay, which they had analyzed ad nauseum in class, was one of the passages on that LSAT. He said once he realized what he was reading he skipped straight to the questions and had them done in ~2.5 mins. He scored 99th percentile and later graduated Order of the Coif, so he probably would have done well anyways, but man wouldn't that be awesome?!

[chimera]

Peanuts...I hope you are much further along than PT 54. I didn't miss any on some of these old tests for reading comp and miss some on the newer tests. I thought the cake walk was one of the easiest reading sections I did.

As far as LG and LR, those are different, too. I hope you've done a more recent test. I wouldn't gauge the older ones as proof of 180 or 170.

I already got a 170 in Oct of 2012. The difference in difficulty between newer and older PTs is significantly overrated. Your singular anecdotal evidence is not sufficient to invalidate the fact that there is no consistent increase in the curve between PT54-72. I would go so far as to argue that Post 2007 tests are easier because comparative reading is much easier than the classic passage format.

I will give you that if I were more careless and paid less attention to detail, I would have gotten the cake walk questions right. I chose those answers first but eliminated them for the reasons given.

Edit -

I was curious if your condescension was at all justified or warranted, so I went through your post history.

29: 152
30: 154
31: 154
32: 155
33: 156
34: 153
35: 158
36: 157
37: 159
38: 157
52: 157
53: 160
54: 160
55: 160
56: 161
57: 159
58: 164
59: 165
60: 166

Really? Didn't miss any on some RC on the older ones? Really? Did you just go -10 or something on LR and LG? Get off your high horse.

...am I the only one who thinks this caution is warranted? The new tests are very different from the old tests (i.e. RC passages, Passage A vs Passage B, easier LR (imo)). It's less than 3 weeks before the real deal. I don't think his/her advice was meant to come across as snarky at all, and I agree with it, in fact.

I agree. A quick google search shows that most if not all people agree there is a difference in the feel between older and newer tests. There is more to it, but off the top of my head there are rule-sub questions for LG, the new LG layout, for LR there are no more 1 stim/2 question, certain question types are more popular in newer tests, and RC has already been addressed. I don't think there's a meaningful difference in difficulty between older than newer but the consensus I've seen is that the structural/rhetorical changes to the test are enough to warrant using newer tests closer to the test date. Solid advice imo

[sfoglia]

We're like a highly dysfunctional family where the family members are dispensable.

FYI u need to post more

Dude, I know I feel so left out when I get to work in the morning and there is 6-29 pages to read through (and I read through each post!). But here is my schedule:

6:00 AM: wake up, shave, shower, get dressed, etc.
6:50 AM: turn on the news/SportsCenter
6:51 AM: start breakfast (just became a vegan, so cooking has become a bit more time consuming/challenging)
7:30 AM: Leave for work.
7:40 AM: start work
12:00 PM: get off work, eat lunch
12:30 PM: study for the LSAT
5:00 PM: Leave for home
5:08 PM: Arrive home
5:15 PM: play with my kids, help my wife with dinner, clean the house, start laundry, bath time, jammie time, etc.
8:30 PM: child #1 goes to bed
8:45 PM: after the house is clean we watch, How I Met Your Mother, The Office, The West Wing, something on the Food Network (Cut Throat Kitchen, Chopped, etc.), or a sporting event
10:30 PM: maybe do a few LG's or a LR section if I am not completely drained
11:15 PM: go to bed
11:45 PM: my wife joins me in bed if child #2 will let her

Well that turned out to be far more detailed than I originally intended. But that's why I only poast, in the morning/early afternoons. That's why we need a TLS reunion.

First of all, CHILDREN. Really admire your ability to balance LSAT with a family.

[BillPackets]

toby y r u vegan

[sfoglia]

I haven't gone -0 on RC in so long it makes me feel illiterate.

Grey, I've never gone -0 on an RC section and I have an MA in English from a T20. There's a reason why committees don't go, "Here answer these four passages on art, history, science, and law in thirty-five minutes, and we'll give you your English Ph.D."

One of my mentors who happened to attend SLS said that 2 weeks prior to his sitting for the test he read an essay from a philosopher in one of his philosophy classes (I want to say it was Kant, but I can't remember), and then a snippet from that same essay, which they had analyzed ad nauseum in class, was one of the passages on that LSAT. He said once he realized what he was reading he skipped straight to the questions and had them done in ~2.5 mins. He scored 99th percentile and later graduated Order of the Coif, so he probably would have done well anyways, but man wouldn't that be awesome?!

I actually have been familiar with all of the literature passages, and that helps a lot. It can be a bit distracting, though, when I really love the topic (Kate Chopin!! Willa Cather!!) and get completely lost in my thoughts, reading the passage as though I were doing so on my own personal time for my own studies.

Is there a Kant passage? I hate Kant. You know what I called him while studying his categorical imperative? Rhymes with "runt."

[BillPackets]

I have an MA in English from a T20.

im genuinely curious about t20 in the english MA world. is there really a thing as "t(insert # here)" outside of law schools is there bigEnglish?

[hetookmetoamovie]

Is there a Kant passage? I hate Kant. You know what I called him while studying his categorical imperative? Rhymes with "runt."

Sfogs Kant even.

Thanks! I'll be here all week. Tip your waitress.

[hetookmetoamovie]

We're like a highly dysfunctional family where the family members are dispensable.

FYI u need to post more

Dude, I know I feel so left out when I get to work in the morning and there is 6-29 pages to read through (and I read through each post!). But here is my schedule:

6:00 AM: wake up, shave, shower, get dressed, etc.
6:50 AM: turn on the news/SportsCenter
6:51 AM: start breakfast (just became a vegan, so cooking has become a bit more time consuming/challenging)
7:30 AM: Leave for work.
7:40 AM: start work
12:00 PM: get off work, eat lunch
12:30 PM: study for the LSAT
5:00 PM: Leave for home
5:08 PM: Arrive home
5:15 PM: play with my kids, help my wife with dinner, clean the house, start laundry, bath time, jammie time, etc.
8:30 PM: child #1 goes to bed
8:45 PM: after the house is clean we watch, How I Met Your Mother, The Office, The West Wing, something on the Food Network (Cut Throat Kitchen, Chopped, etc.), or a sporting event
10:30 PM: maybe do a few LG's or a LR section if I am not completely drained
11:15 PM: go to bed
11:45 PM: my wife joins me in bed if child #2 will let her

Well that turned out to be far more detailed than I originally intended. But that's why I only poast, in the morning/early afternoons. That's why we need a TLS reunion.

How old are your kids, Toby? Also, do you have Veganomicon? I'm not vegan, but I've learned a lot about cooking from that book. It's wonderful.

[Hand]

Not even LSAC is so cruel as to have an actual passage from Kant on the test. But there could def. be a passage that discusses Kant. I either haven't done it or don't remember it, tho.

[Hand]

also, good morning everyone. my weirdest dream as of late was an end-of-the-world dream in which I was on a titanic-like ship. I was a talking cat playing cards with some other talking cats while the tsunami's raged outside. Someone (a human) tried to take our (the talking cat's) cheese, so I stabbed him in the neck with a pencil, pinning him to the wall. That I used a pencil suffices to have this qualify as an LSAT dream, no?

[BillPackets]

Sfogs Kant even.

Thanks! I'll be here all week. Tip your waitress.

movie for TLS comedian-in-chief

[Colonel_funkadunk]

Is there a Kant passage? I hate Kant. You know what I called him while studying his categorical imperative? Rhymes with "runt."

Sfogs Kant even.

Thanks! I'll be here all week. Tip your waitress.

OMG that's hilarious

[Colonel_funkadunk]

We're like a highly dysfunctional family where the family members are dispensable.

FYI u need to post more

Dude, I know I feel so left out when I get to work in the morning and there is 6-29 pages to read through (and I read through each post!). But here is my schedule:

6:00 AM: wake up, shave, shower, get dressed, etc.
6:50 AM: turn on the news/SportsCenter
6:51 AM: start breakfast (just became a vegan, so cooking has become a bit more time consuming/challenging)
7:30 AM: Leave for work.
7:40 AM: start work
12:00 PM: get off work, eat lunch
12:30 PM: study for the LSAT
5:00 PM: Leave for home
5:08 PM: Arrive home
5:15 PM: play with my kids, help my wife with dinner, clean the house, start laundry, bath time, jammie time, etc.
8:30 PM: child #1 goes to bed
8:45 PM: after the house is clean we watch, How I Met Your Mother, The Office, The West Wing, something on the Food Network (Cut Throat Kitchen, Chopped, etc.), or a sporting event
10:30 PM: maybe do a few LG's or a LR section if I am not completely drained
11:15 PM: go to bed
11:45 PM: my wife joins me in bed if child #2 will let her

Well that turned out to be far more detailed than I originally intended. But that's why I only poast, in the morning/early afternoons. That's why we need a TLS reunion.

First of all, CHILDREN. Really admire your ability to balance LSAT with a family.

Yea that makes a lot of sense Toby, that's awesome tho. I only have my son every other weekend, and those 2-3 days I can barely study/TLS consistently so I def feel where u r coming from. Couldn't imagine full time along with everything else

[Colonel_funkadunk]

I have an MA in English from a T20.

im genuinely curious about t20 in the english MA world. is there really a thing as "t(insert # here)" outside of law schools is there bigEnglish?

MidRHETORIC

[Toby Ziegler]

toby y r u vegan

A mix of a few reasons, I have eaten pretty unhealthily for a lot of years and it was time to make a lifestyle change. My wife is in great shape (like 5'3" 120 lbs. after having two kids and her biggest health concern right now is that she can't see her 6-pack anymore) and enjoys running, more intense hiking, and other stuff of that nature that I have no desire to do because of my fat-ness. And I really want to do those things with her. I don't want to be the guy who dies on his family at like 55 y/o because I didn't have the self control to eat right and exercise. Moreover, the lack of ethical treatment to animals is the other major contributing factor. Now, I am not a preachy judg-y vegan that will piss in your cheerios because I feel superior, for I don't. And I still crave meat so hard and wish I could have a fatty serving of chicken fettuccine Alfredo.

If it weren't for my ethical concerns I would have more than likely adopted a lean meat diet and exercise, but I just felt like "going all in" on this. Because I let myself get to the point that I am now (which as I go back and read this makes me sound like one of those people who can't get out of their beds, and that is definitely not me) a drastic change was necessary.

TL;DR I am fat and I love animals.

[Gray]

.

[Learn_Live_Hope]

toby y r u vegan

A mix of a few reasons, I have eaten pretty unhealthily for a lot of years and it was time to make a lifestyle change. My wife is in great shape (like 5'3" 120 lbs. after having two kids and her biggest health concern right now is that she can't see her 6-pack anymore) and enjoys running, more intense hiking, and other stuff of that nature that I have no desire to do because of my fat-ness. And I really want to do those things with her. I don't want to be the guy who dies on his family at like 55 y/o because I didn't have the self control to eat right and exercise. Moreover, the lack of ethical treatment to animals is the other major contributing factor. Now, I am not a preachy judg-y vegan that will piss in your cheerios because I feel superior, for I don't. And I still crave meat so hard and wish I could have a fatty serving of chicken fettuccine Alfredo.

If it weren't for my ethical concerns I would have more than likely adopted a lean meat diet and exercise, but I just felt like "going all in" on this. Because I let myself get to the point that I am now (which as I go back and read this makes me sound like one of those people who can't get out of their beds, and that is definitely not me) a drastic change was necessary.

TL;DR I am fat and I love animals.

I'm very proud of you!!!

[Hand]

Not even LSAC is so cruel as to have an actual passage from Kant on the test. But there could def. be a passage that discusses Kant. I either haven't done it or don't remember it, tho.

Ugh. Kant.

HATE HATE HATE the groundwork

[Hand]

toby y r u vegan

A mix of a few reasons, I have eaten pretty unhealthily for a lot of years and it was time to make a lifestyle change. My wife is in great shape (like 5'3" 120 lbs. after having two kids and her biggest health concern right now is that she can't see her 6-pack anymore) and enjoys running, more intense hiking, and other stuff of that nature that I have no desire to do because of my fat-ness. And I really want to do those things with her. I don't want to be the guy who dies on his family at like 55 y/o because I didn't have the self control to eat right and exercise. Moreover, the lack of ethical treatment to animals is the other major contributing factor. Now, I am not a preachy judg-y vegan that will piss in your cheerios because I feel superior, for I don't. And I still crave meat so hard and wish I could have a fatty serving of chicken fettuccine Alfredo.

If it weren't for my ethical concerns I would have more than likely adopted a lean meat diet and exercise, but I just felt like "going all in" on this. Because I let myself get to the point that I am now (which as I go back and read this makes me sound like one of those people who can't get out of their beds, and that is definitely not me) a drastic change was necessary.

TL;DR I am fat and I love animals.

Go Toby! I was vegan at one point for about a year or so. Then I remembered how much I love cheese. And eggs. And butter.

[Toby Ziegler]

We're like a highly dysfunctional family where the family members are dispensable.

FYI u need to post more

Dude, I know I feel so left out when I get to work in the morning and there is 6-29 pages to read through (and I read through each post!). But here is my schedule:

6:00 AM: wake up, shave, shower, get dressed, etc.
6:50 AM: turn on the news/SportsCenter
6:51 AM: start breakfast (just became a vegan, so cooking has become a bit more time consuming/challenging)
7:30 AM: Leave for work.
7:40 AM: start work
12:00 PM: get off work, eat lunch
12:30 PM: study for the LSAT
5:00 PM: Leave for home
5:08 PM: Arrive home
5:15 PM: play with my kids, help my wife with dinner, clean the house, start laundry, bath time, jammie time, etc.
8:30 PM: child #1 goes to bed
8:45 PM: after the house is clean we watch, How I Met Your Mother, The Office, The West Wing, something on the Food Network (Cut Throat Kitchen, Chopped, etc.), or a sporting event
10:30 PM: maybe do a few LG's or a LR section if I am not completely drained
11:15 PM: go to bed
11:45 PM: my wife joins me in bed if child #2 will let her

Well that turned out to be far more detailed than I originally intended. But that's why I only poast, in the morning/early afternoons. That's why we need a TLS reunion.

How old are your kids, Toby? Also, do you have Veganomicon? I'm not vegan, but I've learned a lot about cooking from that book. It's wonderful.

We don't have it, but will definitely check it out. We're pretty new to this and we both come from farming ancestry, so our folks and grandparents were just meat and potato eaters.

PM'd about the kids -- they're going in my PS so I will try to remain somewhat anonymous.