The Official September 2014 Study Group

ilikebaseball
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby ilikebaseball » Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:09 am

sashafierce wrote:Quick Question: How do you guys feel about having a study partner? Do you have one? Is the relationship beneficial?


Not really. Our score differential is literally 25 points... so maybe that's why. But many people have the theory "sometimes you learn better if you teach it..." definitely not true for me. Just slows me down.

Especially when I'm trying to explain LG to him. Like, I guess we don't realize how fast our brain is moving. I am absolutely incapable of speaking slow when I go over LG's cuz of all the inferences/diagrams/split gameboards/ combining rules/ contrapositives etc. When he tells me to slow down, like I cant. I've trained myself to just think so rapidly and efficiently about it. That's one thing that people dont consider about 7sage. What he does is fantastic on levels that we don't even realize til we try it

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hillz
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby hillz » Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:39 am

sashafierce wrote:Quick Question: How do you guys feel about having a study partner? Do you have one? Is the relationship beneficial?


You guys are my study partners! :D I don't have one IRL...I don't know a single other person taking the test.

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Colonel_funkadunk
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Colonel_funkadunk » Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:51 am

sashafierce wrote:Quick Question: How do you guys feel about having a study partner? Do you have one? Is the relationship beneficial?


I had one at first but he basically ditched me bc LSAT study partners are pointless imho there's enough material out there to find a better explanation for one you don't understand than your partner can give you n learning the LSAT is about drilling in figuring out a new way of thinking n playin flash cards w a partner isn't gonna do anything

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Colonel_funkadunk
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Colonel_funkadunk » Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:55 am

ilikebaseball wrote:
sashafierce wrote:Quick Question: How do you guys feel about having a study partner? Do you have one? Is the relationship beneficial?


Not really. Our score differential is literally 25 points... so maybe that's why. But many people have the theory "sometimes you learn better if you teach it..." definitely not true for me. Just slows me down.

R they takin sept

ilikebaseball
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby ilikebaseball » Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:03 am

Colonel_funkadunk wrote:
ilikebaseball wrote:
sashafierce wrote:Quick Question: How do you guys feel about having a study partner? Do you have one? Is the relationship beneficial?


Not really. Our score differential is literally 25 points... so maybe that's why. But many people have the theory "sometimes you learn better if you teach it..." definitely not true for me. Just slows me down.

R they takin sept


There is no TLSing this fool... goal is 152 (school he wants) and doesnt have LOR's in or anything. Has already determined that he's REtaking in December.

He's getting -13 on LG. So, when I told him that he could easily master LG by the 27th and easily get a 152 if he gets -1 or better on the games, he was sorta inspired.

Think about that though. His goal is a 152. If you perfect the games, you can literally miss 13-14 on every other section. OVER 50 PERCENT. The national average is a 151. There is no reasonable explanation for this other than the fact that many people go into the LSAT with no clue on how to do LG. That's it. And, in saying that, how can you take the most important test of your life and be clueless on a whole section? Makes me wonder

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Colonel_funkadunk
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Colonel_funkadunk » Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:19 am

baseball wrote:there's no TLSing this fool


That's a legit tagline

But yea I put only about 4-5 solid weeks of prep in a few years ago (n seen an even bigger jump this time around) and had a 6 point jump from diagnostic so I especially don't know y u wouldn't take more time to prepare for an exam that's actually learnable. By you I mean people taking the LSAT in general

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Hand
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Hand » Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:33 am

hillz wrote:I don't know a single other person taking the test.


+1

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BillPackets
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby BillPackets » Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:45 am

Colonel_funkadunk wrote:
sashafierce wrote:Quick Question: How do you guys feel about having a study partner? Do you have one? Is the relationship beneficial?


I had one at first but he basically ditched me bc LSAT study partners are pointless imho there's enough material out there to find a better explanation for one you don't understand than your partner can give you n learning the LSAT is about drilling in figuring out a new way of thinking n playin flash cards w a partner isn't gonna do anything

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sashafierce
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby sashafierce » Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:53 am

ilikebaseball wrote:Not really. Our score differential is literally 25 points... so maybe that's why. But many people have the theory "sometimes you learn better if you teach it..." definitely not true for me. Just slows me down.

hillz wrote:You guys are my study partners! I don't have one IRL...I don't know a single other person taking the test
Colonel_funkadunk wrote:I had one at first but he basically ditched me bc LSAT study partners are pointless imho there's enough material out there to find a better explanation for one you don't understand than your partner can give you n learning the LSAT is about drilling in figuring out a new way of thinking n playin flash cards w a partner isn't gonna do anything


Thanks guys

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gnomgnomuch
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby gnomgnomuch » Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:00 pm

So I've spent today drilling MBT level 3 and 4's. I've noticed that the answer choices are a bit skewed toward D and E in those questions after 20.

I think I've done something like 30 questions in that category, and around half of the answers have been either D or E.

Just found that a bit interesting lol.

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sfoglia
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby sfoglia » Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:30 pm

Look, I'm going to say this and it may make me sound like a huge bitch, but, not everyone can be a lawyer. Not everyone can be a doctor. Not everyone can be a professor. You don't have to be a genius to be either of the three, but whatever you lack in natural ability needs to be compensated for with dedication.

ETA: "Not everyone should" is probably a better way to phrase it.

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hetookmetoamovie
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby hetookmetoamovie » Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:39 pm

sfoglia wrote:Look, I'm going to say this and it may make me sound like a huge bitch, but, not everyone can be a lawyer. Not everyone can be a doctor. Not everyone can be a professor. You don't have to be a genius to be either of the three, but whatever you lack in natural ability needs to be compensated for with dedication.

ETA: "Not everyone should" is probably a better way to phrase it.


I was bawling and inconsolable yesterday after PTing, but this realization put me back on the rails. I am earning every single point I put up on this exam.

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gnomgnomuch
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby gnomgnomuch » Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:53 pm

sfoglia wrote:Look, I'm going to say this and it may make me sound like a huge bitch, but, not everyone can be a lawyer. Not everyone can be a doctor. Not everyone can be a professor. You don't have to be a genius to be either of the three, but whatever you lack in natural ability needs to be compensated for with dedication.

ETA: "Not everyone should" is probably a better way to phrase it.



Should is a much better word. I could brute force my way through science classes - I've basically done this for a couple of them - but my mind works poorly with science, so I prob shouldn't do it, it doesn't mean that I cant.

Also, does it piss you guys off as much as it does me, when your pre-med friends are all saying that "you're so lucky that the LSAT is such an easy test."

Like, it's a learn-able test, but it's not EASY. I'd argue that the MCAT is the same overall level as the LSAT. For the MCAT everything is empirical, and you either know it, or you don't. So if someone were to be super dedicated to get into Med school, they could just learn the material until they have it ALL memorized. I'm not saying it's easy to do this, but for people who are contemplating careers in the professional world - lawyers, doctors, finance - they're prob at the same level of intelligence that they could interchange career paths, if they wanted to pursue one over the other. Sure not everyone can score a 40 on the MCAT but the same goes for the LSAT, not everyone can get the 170, but a more or less respectable score (160+lets say) is possible for every single person who puts their minds to it.

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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby msp8 » Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:23 pm

gnomgnomuch wrote:Should is a much better word. I could brute force my way through science classes - I've basically done this for a couple of them - but my mind works poorly with science, so I prob shouldn't do it, it doesn't mean that I cant.

Also, does it piss you guys off as much as it does me, when your pre-med friends are all saying that "you're so lucky that the LSAT is such an easy test."

Like, it's a learn-able test, but it's not EASY. I'd argue that the MCAT is the same overall level as the LSAT. For the MCAT everything is empirical, and you either know it, or you don't. So if someone were to be super dedicated to get into Med school, they could just learn the material until they have it ALL memorized. I'm not saying it's easy to do this, but for people who are contemplating careers in the professional world - lawyers, doctors, finance - they're prob at the same level of intelligence that they could interchange career paths, if they wanted to pursue one over the other. Sure not everyone can score a 40 on the MCAT but the same goes for the LSAT, not everyone can get the 170, but a more or less respectable score (160+lets say) is possible for every single person who puts their minds to it.


I think it's entirely possible for every single person who puts their minds to it to get a 170.

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gnomgnomuch
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby gnomgnomuch » Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:26 pm

msp8 wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:Should is a much better word. I could brute force my way through science classes - I've basically done this for a couple of them - but my mind works poorly with science, so I prob shouldn't do it, it doesn't mean that I cant.

Also, does it piss you guys off as much as it does me, when your pre-med friends are all saying that "you're so lucky that the LSAT is such an easy test."

Like, it's a learn-able test, but it's not EASY. I'd argue that the MCAT is the same overall level as the LSAT. For the MCAT everything is empirical, and you either know it, or you don't. So if someone were to be super dedicated to get into Med school, they could just learn the material until they have it ALL memorized. I'm not saying it's easy to do this, but for people who are contemplating careers in the professional world - lawyers, doctors, finance - they're prob at the same level of intelligence that they could interchange career paths, if they wanted to pursue one over the other. Sure not everyone can score a 40 on the MCAT but the same goes for the LSAT, not everyone can get the 170, but a more or less respectable score (160+lets say) is possible for every single person who puts their minds to it.


I think it's entirely possible for every single person who puts their minds to it to get a 170.


I don't know about that, a 160 I would say definitely, a 165 probably, but a 170 is super tough to break into. The test is designed specifically that way.

Plus, bear in mind, that some people just CANT get it. Some people at my college bust their asses off, but just cant get higher than a B in a class.

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hetookmetoamovie
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby hetookmetoamovie » Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:27 pm

I'm having a really hard time understanding PT 62, Section 2, #25. It's the one about the university president increasing tuition in order to increase the applicant pool. I can't make sense of TCR -- it seems to be just a premise booster? Then again, the other ACs are flimsier. It just worries me to see a question like this. Can anyone shed light on this?

msp8
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby msp8 » Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:38 pm

gnomgnomuch wrote:
I don't know about that, a 160 I would say definitely, a 165 probably, but a 170 is super tough to break into. The test is designed specifically that way.

Plus, bear in mind, that some people just CANT get it. Some people at my college bust their asses off, but just cant get higher than a B in a class.


I suppose. I'd say those that 'cant' get it are just doing it the wrong way. How many times have people discussed here that brute forcing drills and PTs is a dumb way to go about it? Understanding structure more than content being essential, etc.

Studying efficiently, intelligently and introspectively is rarely taught in schools. I feel that most people are terrible at studying and, with proper guidance, could improve leaps and bounds. As such, while I've seen people struggle to get Bs, I don't consider it a real struggle if someone's putting in 10 hrs of inefficient studying.

And that's why people on TLS and other such forums tend to be the top LSAT test-takers. The students that seek out different methods, interact with others to ensure they're covering all bases in study tactics, measure their progression versus others, articulate their thoughts on studying (thus re-evaluating) are those that understand the need to tailor their studying technique for the test. Those that don't seek out such forums, and rely instead on a) how they've always studied; b) a less than stellar prep course/company, who represent that 150-151 average score, are the vast majority of test takers.

Anyway, this is all a bit of a tangent.

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gnomgnomuch
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby gnomgnomuch » Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:41 pm

msp8 wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:
I don't know about that, a 160 I would say definitely, a 165 probably, but a 170 is super tough to break into. The test is designed specifically that way.

Plus, bear in mind, that some people just CANT get it. Some people at my college bust their asses off, but just cant get higher than a B in a class.


I suppose. I'd say those that 'cant' get it are just doing it the wrong way. How many times have people discussed here that brute forcing drills and PTs is a dumb way to go about it? Understanding structure more than content being essential, etc.

Studying efficiently, intelligently and introspectively is rarely taught in schools. I feel that most people are terrible at studying and, with proper guidance, could improve leaps and bounds. As such, while I've seen people struggle to get Bs, I don't consider it a real struggle if someone's putting in 10 hrs of inefficient studying.

And that's why people on TLS and other such forums tend to be the top LSAT test-takers. The students that seek out different methods, interact with others to ensure they're covering all bases in study tactics, measure their progression versus others, articulate their thoughts on studying (thus re-evaluating) are those that understand the need to tailor their studying technique for the test. Those that don't seek out such forums, and rely instead on a) how they've always studied; b) a less than stellar prep course/company, who represent that 150-151 average score, are the vast majority of test takers.

Anyway, this is all a bit of a tangent.



Tangents are fun! (I just don't want to study)

Hmm, the thing about studying makes a lot of sense, but I feel that if you're studying for 10 hours straight and still cant understand the topic, you would realize that you're going about it the wrong way. For me if I do a set of 10 problems, and I get more than 2 wrong, I'll go over the core concepts for those problems, AND go over my mistakes in depth, before I even start again.

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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby msp8 » Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:55 pm

gnomgnomuch wrote:
Tangents are fun! (I just don't want to study)

Hmm, the thing about studying makes a lot of sense, but I feel that if you're studying for 10 hours straight and still cant understand the topic, you would realize that you're going about it the wrong way. For me if I do a set of 10 problems, and I get more than 2 wrong, I'll go over the core concepts for those problems, AND go over my mistakes in depth, before I even start again.


Sure. And you're also on TLS. And relatively active here, judging by your post count. You don't fall into the category of student that: a) goes into the LSAT blind; b) goes into the LSAT having taken a prep course from a poor company, thinking you'll be fine.

The majority of students do (a) or (b). So you're guilty of representing the whole (students studying for LSATs) with a part (you). ;)

I don't think it's necessarily a lack of intelligence that leads people to do (a) or (b). It's a number of issues: lack of exposure to intelligent study techniques; lack of ambition or drive or understanding what ambition/drive really are; liking the idea of going to law school and being a lawyer and glorifying that life more than actually wanting it (and thus putting in the time to study, because that becomes their purpose, without it being what they really want -- someone that I was studying with, up until a few days ago, was incredibly frustrating for me to study with because law school was their purpose; they studied constantly, yet they put no thought into their study strategy and relied on me to lay it all out for them. Another friend of ours explained to me that this person didn't really want to go to law school. And, sure enough, a few days ago the studying friend had an epiphany and out went the law school plan).

Could be any number of things that lead people down to poor study technique. All to say, I think a 170 is attainable for anyone, with the caveat that they must have exposure to the aforementioned issues on studying. (and with that, I think I should head to study and be done with my pseudo intellectual psychoanalysis!)
Last edited by msp8 on Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Gray
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Gray » Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:56 pm

hetookmetoamovie wrote:I'm having a really hard time understanding PT 62, Section 2, #25. It's the one about the university president increasing tuition in order to increase the applicant pool. I can't make sense of TCR -- it seems to be just a premise booster? Then again, the other ACs are flimsier. It just worries me to see a question like this. Can anyone shed light on this?


The conclusion of the argument is that the university should raise tuition fees in order to attract more applicants. The president says that one possible explanation for the decline in applicants is that parents/students think that they charge too little for them to be a legit school. For the argument to follow, this explanation has to be the right one. Otherwise the university would have no reason to raise fees.

B is wrong because the argument is not about actual quality of education
C is wrong because it's just like the conclusion restated with a guarantee
D is close, but no other explanation doesn't mean the only existing explanation is correct
E is just sort of irrelevant. Tuition could increase a ton and still be "too little"

HOPE THAT HELPS.

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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Learn_Live_Hope » Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:06 pm

msp8 wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:
Tangents are fun! (I just don't want to study)

Hmm, the thing about studying makes a lot of sense, but I feel that if you're studying for 10 hours straight and still cant understand the topic, you would realize that you're going about it the wrong way. For me if I do a set of 10 problems, and I get more than 2 wrong, I'll go over the core concepts for those problems, AND go over my mistakes in depth, before I even start again.


Sure. And you're also on TLS. And relatively active here, judging by your post count. You don't fall into the category of student that: a) goes into the LSAT blind; b) goes into the LSAT having taken a prep course from a poor company, thinking you'll be fine.

The majority of students do (a) or (b). So you're guilty of representing the whole (students studying for LSATs) with a part (you). ;)

I don't think it's necessarily a lack of intelligence that leads people to do (a) or (b). It's a number of issues: lack of exposure to intelligent study techniques; lack of ambition or drive or understanding what ambition/drive really are; liking the idea of going to law school and being a lawyer and glorifying that life more than actually wanting it (and thus putting in the time to study, because that becomes their purpose, without it being what they really want -- someone that I was studying with, up until a few days ago, was incredibly frustrating for me to study with because law school was their purpose; they studied constantly, yet they put no thought into their study strategy and relied on me to lay it all out for them. Another friend of ours explained to me that this person didn't really want to go to law school. And, sure enough, a few days ago the studying friend had an epiphany and out went the law school plan).

Could be any number of things that lead people down to poor study technique. All to say, I think a 170 is attainable for anyone, with the caveat that they must have exposure to the aforementioned issues on studying. (and with that, I think I should head to study and be done with my pseudo intellectual psychoanalysis!)


I like this newbie!

Well said.

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hetookmetoamovie
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby hetookmetoamovie » Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:08 pm

smccgrey wrote:
hetookmetoamovie wrote:I'm having a really hard time understanding PT 62, Section 2, #25. It's the one about the university president increasing tuition in order to increase the applicant pool. I can't make sense of TCR -- it seems to be just a premise booster? Then again, the other ACs are flimsier. It just worries me to see a question like this. Can anyone shed light on this?


The conclusion of the argument is that the university should raise tuition fees in order to attract more applicants. The president says that one possible explanation for the decline in applicants is that parents/students think that they charge too little for them to be a legit school. For the argument to follow, this explanation has to be the right one. Otherwise the university would have no reason to raise fees.

B is wrong because the argument is not about actual quality of education
C is wrong because it's just like the conclusion restated with a guarantee
D is close, but no other explanation doesn't mean the only existing explanation is correct
E is just sort of irrelevant. Tuition could increase a ton and still be "too little"

HOPE THAT HELPS.


OHHHH. I had such a hard time distinguishing the implications of A vs D in the argument, but you made it click! THANK YOU!!

GreenTee
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby GreenTee » Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:10 pm

Hey guys! I took PT68 this morning my testing center. I didn't get a great night's sleep, and I felt really fatigued and weird during my morning run. I've been very anxious this whole week, I'm not sure why. I guess it has something to do with that incredibly significant event-which-shall-not-be-named happening at the end of this month. Anyway, I'm shocked that I managed this:

LR Exp: -0
RC: -2
LR: -0
LR: -4
LG: -4
Scaled: 172

First of all, that -2 RC ties my best score ever for that section, so I'm thrilled about that. I felt really off during both LR sections, so the first scored -0 seems like mostly luck. (I circled two, and ran out of time on one of them.)
After the break, when I hit that -4 LR section, I was really off my game. Midway through, I just couldn't focus at all. I got 21-23 wrong in a row, and I'm not at all surprised. I was completely brain-dead.
LG should have been -2, at worst. But the fatigue carried over, and I was a bit slow, especially on that weird third game. Missed the last 2 because I ran out of time.

Anyway, here's the lesson of the day: Even if I feel weird and my brain feels gelatinous, I still might hit my target. So yay!

Learn_Live_Hope
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Learn_Live_Hope » Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:13 pm

GreenTee wrote:Hey guys! I took PT68 this morning my testing center. I didn't get a great night's sleep, and I felt really fatigued and weird during my morning run. I've been very anxious this whole week, I'm not sure why. I guess it has something to do with that incredibly significant event-which-shall-not-be-named happening at the end of this month. Anyway, I'm shocked that I managed this:

LR Exp: -0
RC: -2
LR: -0
LR: -4
LG: -4
Scaled: 172

First of all, that -2 RC ties my best score ever for that section, so I'm thrilled about that. I felt really off during both LR sections, so the first scored -0 seems like mostly luck. (I circled two, and ran out of time on one of them.)
After the break, when I hit that -4 LR section, I was really off my game. Midway through, I just couldn't focus at all. I got 21-23 wrong in a row, and I'm not at all surprised. I was completely brain-dead.
LG should have been -2, at worst. But the fatigue carried over, and I was a bit slow, especially on that weird third game. Missed the last 2 because I ran out of time.

Anyway, here's the lesson of the day: Even if I feel weird and my brain feels gelatinous, I still might hit my target. So yay!


Great job!!!

GreenTee
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby GreenTee » Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:15 pm

Thanks LLH! :mrgreen:




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