The Official September 2014 Study Group

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flash21
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby flash21 » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:07 pm

GreenTee wrote:
flash21 wrote:First of all, thanks GreenTee.

I say please respond because I am often ignored in this thread.

Anyway, my process for SA's is typically first of all to find the concl and premise, like all other LR basically, then I look for some sort of leap in the conclusion that is there. Often it will conclude something that involves going back into the premises and having to connect that some how to help it be 100 percent true. I find the answer choices are more often my downfall than finding the gap.

Sometimes its hard to distinguish what makes it 100 percent true from what just makes it very likely.

For example, pt 45, s4, q 22. I have been sitting for a while trying to definitely say why (C) is wrong and (E) is right. They seem to be basically the same answer to me for some reason. I'm looking at Manhattan and my brain honestly cannot comprehend whats happening.

I'm thinking the gap is that if its not played on the radio, they don't believe it will be profitable? But even then, this weird double negative in (E) and my inability to find whats wrong with (C) is super frustrating. This type of issue is unique for me in SA questions.


C is wrong because it still allows for the possibility that there are recordings NOT played on the radio (some of which could be classic jazz recordings) which record companies believe will sell well on CDs.

E eliminates that possibility, which allows the conclusion to be properly drawn.


Ah ok. I think I see it now. This is pretty tricky.. I may have been better off just taking what I saw as the gap and looking for that in the AC's in this case during timed conditions at least, but the double negative found in (E) really screwed me up.

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Colonel_funkadunk
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Colonel_funkadunk » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:10 pm

flash21 wrote:I say please respond because I am often ignored in this thread.


Don't worry flash everyone ignores my dumb comments about apricot plums

GreenTee
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby GreenTee » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:12 pm

ETA: When approaching a tough comparison of two attractive answer choices like this, always begin by identifying the group to which the statements are referring. Answer choice (C) refers only to recordings "that are played on the radio." It says nothing of recordings that are NOT played on the radio, which is the gap in the argument core. (E) addresses that gap by eliminating it, and it is therefore the correct answer.


Flash - see my edit above.

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BillPackets
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby BillPackets » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:15 pm

flash21 wrote:
smccgrey wrote:
flash21 wrote:I say please respond because I am often ignored in this thread.


Hey Flash! never apologize for interrupting our Beyonce love fest. We do get really off topic ITT and get very caught up with how hilarious we are.

I would be more helpful, but I've discovered that I am TERRIBLE at explaining LR answers.


Its ok - I know this thread is full of high scorers so I'm just happy to get some advice in between the convo's you guys have. After I re-read my post it sounded pretty depressing.


hey flash i love you.

so whats your beef with that q? do you see the flaw? there is a pretty clear term shift from the premise to the conclusion...mainly the "played on the radio" issue in the conclusion vs. "what they think will be profitable" in the premise.

but obvs at Q22 in a test LSAC probably isnt going 2 give u a home run so they made the answer choices tough. C is like incredibly tempting? Why? Because all of the language matches up. you see and your like oh this is exactly what the stimulus is saying it must be right. but C is reversed. It is saying "if its played on the radio, then they think it will be profitable." do you see how that is reversing the stimulus? its putting the conclusion in the sufficient condition, when what you need is the necessary condition (in that example) to be in the sufficient.

e does that and obviously its stupidly convoluted. "no recording that is not played..." but its just the contrapositive of what u want. "if the recording is not played on the radio, then it wont be profitable." Or the contrapositive "if it is profitable (which is the premise), then its played on the radio (conclusion)."

idk if that helps or not.

edit: obvs scooped but idk maybe it will help

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flash21
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby flash21 » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:18 pm

GreenTee wrote:
ETA: When approaching a tough comparison of two attractive answer choices like this, always begin by identifying the group to which the statements are referring. Answer choice (C) refers only to recordings "that are played on the radio." It says nothing of recordings that are NOT played on the radio, which is the gap in the argument core. (E) addresses that gap by eliminating it, and it is therefore the correct answer.


Flash - see my edit above.


Hey both Bill and GreenTee, thanks to both of you!

Green this is actually super great advice. Thanks a lot for this. This is EXACTLY where my confusion stems from now that I thin of it. I needed to pay attention to what groups actually being addressed.

Appreciate it.

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Gray
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Gray » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:26 pm

lol @ bill "what's your beef with that q?"

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hetookmetoamovie
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby hetookmetoamovie » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:27 pm

So I'm still incapable of missing less than 6 in both LR sections. Typically I miss 2-3 because I misread something in the ACs, but the remainder tend to be inference type questions where my brain just can't compute the argument. With that and the recent volatility of my RC, I'm just not feeling great about Sept... But I don't think postponing until Dec is a real option. Do you guys think this can be drilled away? Or should I cut my losses and try to focus on RC and locking down LG?

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BillPackets
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby BillPackets » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:29 pm

smccgrey wrote:lol @ bill "what's your beef with that q?"


i have beef with some Qs some of these paradox questions on the recent tests are just getting out of hand w the assumptions that you have to make for the right answer case in point P67 Section 2 (or whatever the first LR is) Q2 i mean the right answer there is like ok nbd I just have to make this huge assumption that this thing that went away is now back and is causing harm even though its not at all implied in the answer choice

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BillPackets
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby BillPackets » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:30 pm

hetookmetoamovie wrote:So I'm still incapable of missing less than 6 in both LR sections. Typically I miss 2-3 because I misread something in the ACs, but the remainder tend to be inference type questions where my brain just can't compute the argument. With that and the recent volatility of my RC, I'm just not feeling great about Sept... But I don't think postponing until Dec is a real option. Do you guys think this can be drilled away? Or should I cut my losses and try to focus on RC and locking down LG?


what ACs are you misreading? are they assumption fam? non assumption fam?

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dasani13
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby dasani13 » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:31 pm

BillPackets wrote:
smccgrey wrote:lol @ bill "what's your beef with that q?"


i have beef with some Qs some of these paradox questions on the recent tests are just getting out of hand w the assumptions that you have to make for the right answer case in point P67 Section 2 (or whatever the first LR is) Q2 i mean the right answer there is like ok nbd I just have to make this huge assumption that this thing that went away is now back and is causing harm even though its not at all implied in the answer choice


yeah the recent stuff is getting tricky for me too.. I noticed PoE helps a lot. Sometimes the remaining answer choice still doesn't make 100% sense to me but since I was able to cross out all of the others I end up getting the question right.

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Gray
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Gray » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:31 pm

hetookmetoamovie wrote:So I'm still incapable of missing less than 6 in both LR sections. Typically I miss 2-3 because I misread something in the ACs, but the remainder tend to be inference type questions where my brain just can't compute the argument. With that and the recent volatility of my RC, I'm just not feeling great about Sept... But I don't think postponing until Dec is a real option. Do you guys think this can be drilled away? Or should I cut my losses and try to focus on RC and locking down LG?


MLSAT RC actually helped me a lot with not making silly "oops I can't read" mistakes in LR too. Is there a certain type of Q that you have more trouble with that you can get the cambridge packets for? (not sure if you've already mentioned this).

I think it can be drilled away. You still have a month!

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Louis1127
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Louis1127 » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:32 pm

The words of TLS legend Mcgruff ring true today for me:

"Taking the PT is the easy part". This is referring to the idea that the real work is in the review.

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Colonel_funkadunk
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Colonel_funkadunk » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:34 pm

smccgrey wrote:lol @ bill "what's your beef with that q?"

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BillPackets
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby BillPackets » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:35 pm

dasani13 wrote:
BillPackets wrote:
smccgrey wrote:lol @ bill "what's your beef with that q?"


i have beef with some Qs some of these paradox questions on the recent tests are just getting out of hand w the assumptions that you have to make for the right answer case in point P67 Section 2 (or whatever the first LR is) Q2 i mean the right answer there is like ok nbd I just have to make this huge assumption that this thing that went away is now back and is causing harm even though its not at all implied in the answer choice


yeah the recent stuff is getting tricky for me too.. I noticed PoE helps a lot. Sometimes the remaining answer choice still doesn't make 100% sense to me but since I was able to cross out all of the others I end up getting the question right.


i mean srs there was another paradox where i was like this has to be the right answer and im pissed that its right bc i have to make some humongous assumptions to see how this could conceivable b the right answer

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hetookmetoamovie
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby hetookmetoamovie » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:36 pm

BillPackets wrote:
hetookmetoamovie wrote:So I'm still incapable of missing less than 6 in both LR sections. Typically I miss 2-3 because I misread something in the ACs, but the remainder tend to be inference type questions where my brain just can't compute the argument. With that and the recent volatility of my RC, I'm just not feeling great about Sept... But I don't think postponing until Dec is a real option. Do you guys think this can be drilled away? Or should I cut my losses and try to focus on RC and locking down LG?


what ACs are you misreading? are they assumption fam? non assumption fam?


Mostly assumption family questions (weakens seem to be my Achilles), with the occasional Principle or Parallel where I overlook a mismatched term.

MSS also throw me off sometimes bc I think I'm unsure of whether to approach them as inference or assumption qs.

Just very frustrated at the nonlinear relationship between hours of study and points of improvement.

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Colonel_funkadunk
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Colonel_funkadunk » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:37 pm

BillPackets wrote:
dasani13 wrote:
BillPackets wrote:
smccgrey wrote:lol @ bill "what's your beef with that q?"


i have beef with some Qs some of these paradox questions on the recent tests are just getting out of hand w the assumptions that you have to make for the right answer case in point P67 Section 2 (or whatever the first LR is) Q2 i mean the right answer there is like ok nbd I just have to make this huge assumption that this thing that went away is now back and is causing harm even though its not at all implied in the answer choice


yeah the recent stuff is getting tricky for me too.. I noticed PoE helps a lot. Sometimes the remaining answer choice still doesn't make 100% sense to me but since I was able to cross out all of the others I end up getting the question right.


i mean srs there was another paradox where i was like this has to be the right answer and im pissed that its right bc i have to make some humongous assumptions to see how this could conceivable b the right answer


I mean if it's right it's right

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BillPackets
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby BillPackets » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:40 pm

Colonel_funkadunk wrote:I mean if it's right it's right


k thx for that colonel real helpful thx guys did u see that if its right its right nbd

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Gray
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Gray » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:41 pm

BillPackets wrote:
Colonel_funkadunk wrote:I mean if it's right it's right


k thx for that colonel real helpful thx guys did u see that if its right its right nbd

Yeah, just pick the best answer. That's what it says in the instructions. You're welcome, enjoy the 180.

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hetookmetoamovie
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby hetookmetoamovie » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:44 pm

BillPackets wrote:
Colonel_funkadunk wrote:I mean if it's right it's right


k thx for that colonel real helpful thx guys did u see that if its right its right nbd


You are the LSAT whisperer

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Colonel_funkadunk
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Colonel_funkadunk » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:45 pm

smccgrey wrote:
BillPackets wrote:
Colonel_funkadunk wrote:I mean if it's right it's right


k thx for that colonel real helpful thx guys did u see that if its right its right nbd

Yeah, just pick the best answer. That's what it says in the instructions. You're welcome, enjoy the 180.


See grey$$$$ gets it

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Colonel_funkadunk
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Colonel_funkadunk » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:46 pm

hetookmetoamovie wrote:
BillPackets wrote:
Colonel_funkadunk wrote:I mean if it's right it's right


k thx for that colonel real helpful thx guys did u see that if its right its right nbd


You are the LSAT whisperer

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dasani13
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby dasani13 » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:46 pm

smccgrey wrote:
BillPackets wrote:
Colonel_funkadunk wrote:I mean if it's right it's right


k thx for that colonel real helpful thx guys did u see that if its right its right nbd

Yeah, just pick the best answer. That's what it says in the instructions. You're welcome, enjoy the 180.


lol speaking of instructions.. my proctor for June was this 100-year old lady and she gave us about 3 mins every section to read the instructions.

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BillPackets
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby BillPackets » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:47 pm

hetookmetoamovie wrote:Mostly assumption family questions (weakens seem to be my Achilles), with the occasional Principle or Parallel where I overlook a mismatched term.

MSS also throw me off sometimes bc I think I'm unsure of whether to approach them as inference or assumption qs.

Just very frustrated at the nonlinear relationship between hours of study and points of improvement.


MSS are absolutely not assumption family. There is no assuming in MSS. you read the stimulus, then see what is supported by the stimulus in the answer choices.

i know what helps me most in assumption family questions, and this might sound self-evident, is having a firm grasp on the premise, conclusion and the flaw. if you have a good understanding of those three things, then its generally pretty easy to eliminate 3 quick wrong answers because they are out of scope. this can be anything as subtle as a mismatched term to some very egregious wrong answers that get way out of scope.

i actually had trouble with principle Qs for awhile and what helped me most is to remember that youre trying to JUSTIFY the conclusion. so when i do principle justify Qs i usually ask myself "why does that have to be case?" and go into the ACs with that question in my mind. it helps to be very literal in principle justify Qs

and for me with parallel flaw like 75% of the time i just write out the flaw from the stimulus and see what it looks like unless its really obvious like an incorrect contraposition or something like that

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hetookmetoamovie
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby hetookmetoamovie » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:48 pm

smccgrey wrote:
hetookmetoamovie wrote:So I'm still incapable of missing less than 6 in both LR sections. Typically I miss 2-3 because I misread something in the ACs, but the remainder tend to be inference type questions where my brain just can't compute the argument. With that and the recent volatility of my RC, I'm just not feeling great about Sept... But I don't think postponing until Dec is a real option. Do you guys think this can be drilled away? Or should I cut my losses and try to focus on RC and locking down LG?


MLSAT RC actually helped me a lot with not making silly "oops I can't read" mistakes in LR too. Is there a certain type of Q that you have more trouble with that you can get the cambridge packets for? (not sure if you've already mentioned this).

I think it can be drilled away. You still have a month!


Thanks smcc. A month seems like soo much time and yet no time at all. ::gazes out of window contemplatively::

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gnomgnomuch
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby gnomgnomuch » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:48 pm

I just finished my schedule for this semester, literally built it upon the LSAT.

Mon/Wed from 9 30 to 3 45 and thats it.




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