The Official September 2014 Study Group

User avatar
valen
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:31 pm

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby valen » Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:02 pm

Just finished my first timed PT and I am both exhausted and frustrated:

Superprep PT C
Timed:
LG: -7
LR: -6
LR: -6
RC: -2
Score: 165

Untimed:
LG: -2
LR: -5
LR: -3
RC: -2
Score: 172

I think the majority of my mistakes are from running out of time and mental exhaustion. I am definitely going to try to increase my speed when drilling. Also I feel like all my diagramming knowledge disappears the second that timer starts. This test really bummed me out, feels like I've taken a step back.

User avatar
Oskosh
Posts: 1026
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:18 pm

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Oskosh » Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:06 pm

When do you guys suggest I begin doing the rest of the preptests? I have 61-72 untouched, but would hate to exhaust them early on....

User avatar
Gray
Posts: 5989
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:02 pm

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Gray » Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:30 pm

flash21 wrote:
smccgrey wrote:
kbrizz wrote:
smccgrey wrote:Hey guys!

Just did PT 61 and got 177 again! Should be happier, but 2 mistakes were really dumb - missing something key in the question, and misreading an answer choice. Plus the only RC question I missed was one that I changed the answer from right to wrong (again).

The other two were both parallel reasoning, so I bought and printed out the Cambridge packets for Parallel Reasoning and Parallel Flaw like immediately after the exam. I have found the Parallel Reasoning Qs more difficult in the more recent PTs and got a few wrong, so I guess I need to drill.

Breakdown:
RC: -1
LR1: -1 (Parallel)
LG: -1 (First time I've had a mistake on LG in a while, and it stings, because it was so careless.)
LR2: -2 (1 careless, 1 Parallel)

I think next weekend I'm not going to do a PT on Saturday and really focus on drilling - Parallel, RC and LG. I wish there wasn't an entire work week between now and then :(



Hey don't be too hard on yourself! That's awesome. Quick question. When you are drilling are you reusing material? Because it seems like you're pretty far along in the process.


Not reusing anything yet! I hope I don't have to. I didn't start with drilling, I started with PTs, and have just targeted issues as I go along. I have done all the LGs from PT 1-20, and about half the RC from 21-40. I'm not that intense, I work too much to spend a ton of time drilling.


How much time do you spend upfront when you first read an LG prompt making inferences? I think part of my issue is when I do a new LG section I panic and don't spend enough time making the inferences you'd normally make, which results in losing a bunch of time elsewhere.


It depends on the question - and how many inferences can really be made. I generally just try to get a sense of the conditions and I usually get a clearer picture as I work through the first question. But if there are a lot of conditions, I will spend time noting them and figuring out how far I can take them, if that makes sense.

User avatar
kbrizz
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 7:29 pm

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby kbrizz » Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:43 pm

Hmm looking at my schedule. Might be PTing after work tomorrow. :?

Any suggestions on which one to take? I have all of them, but am looking for a good starting point.

MadwomanintheAttic
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 9:42 pm

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby MadwomanintheAttic » Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:50 pm

Question: How did you guys handle timing? I rarely have time for the last LG. I spend a substantial amount of time on the first game then give about equal time to 2 and 3, so that by the time I'm at game 4 all I have time for is the orientation question. I started LG at -18 consistently and now I'm at -9, but that's mainly because I can never get to the last game. Do I need to drill more? Do I need to force myself to move one? Any advice would be appreciated.

Valamar
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:06 am

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Valamar » Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:52 pm

kbrizz wrote:Hmm looking at my schedule. Might be PTing after work tomorrow. :?

Any suggestions on which one to take? I have all of them, but am looking for a good starting point.


The general consensus from what I've seen is that later PTs are more difficult/employ some different question types than earlier ones, imo anything after #30 would be a good bet.

User avatar
Colonel_funkadunk
Posts: 2791
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:03 pm

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Colonel_funkadunk » Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:24 pm

MadwomanintheAttic wrote:Question: How did you guys handle timing? I rarely have time for the last LG. I spend a substantial amount of time on the first game then give about equal time to 2 and 3, so that by the time I'm at game 4 all I have time for is the orientation question. I started LG at -18 consistently and now I'm at -9, but that's mainly because I can never get to the last game. Do I need to drill more? Do I need to force myself to move one? Any advice would be appreciated.


I've gotten to where I spend 6:30-7:30 per easy game/medium game leaving me 12-13 min for the hard game. I started off not able to finish the sections tho. I think it really comes down to drilling. I've done every game from the cambridhe packets so all the games from test 1-39. It just comes to practice.

ilikebaseball
Posts: 4103
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:04 am

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby ilikebaseball » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:22 pm

I'm spending the next 6 hours of my life until I figure out RC. Voyagers guide brought it down a little, but not consistently enough to where Im comfortable. I'm gonna figure this shit out. There's gotta be some type of pattern in the questions asked or something. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

User avatar
flash21
Posts: 1536
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:56 pm

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby flash21 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:24 pm

ilikebaseball wrote:I'm spending the next 6 hours of my life until I figure out RC. Voyagers guide brought it down a little, but not consistently enough to where Im comfortable. I'm gonna figure this shit out. There's gotta be some type of pattern in the questions asked or something. I'll let you guys know how it goes.


What helped me a lot was spending 4-4:30 minutes just on reading the passage.

ilikebaseball
Posts: 4103
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:04 am

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby ilikebaseball » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:26 pm

I feel like its different from everyone. Like, if I was to ask "what is the best strategy?" I'd get 10 different answers. So right now, I'm throwin all the chips on the table and trying everything. I have 8 sections here with me of RC. This has gotta be unhealthy.

HRomanus
Posts: 1307
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:45 pm

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby HRomanus » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:35 pm

Valamar wrote:"Only those who appreciate these advances are scientists" structurally is "only A is B", "A is necessary for B", or "B---->A". It becomes clearer if you reword it as "the only people who are scientists are those who appreciate these advances", from which you can also deduce "people who do not appreciate these advances are not scientists", and thus "all scientists appreciate these technological advances".

On the other hand, if the prompt had read something like "the only people who appreciate these advances are scientists" or "only scientists appreciate these advances", that would be the reverse structurally: "only B is A", "B is necessary for A", or "A----->B". I haven't really studied formal logic too comprehensively so maybe someone else would be better able to provide proper technical terms, but that is the general gist of it.


Ah thank you. This definitely helps. Does this kind of logic come up much on the LSAT? It's a little more abstract or categorical than most conditional logic.

User avatar
Gray
Posts: 5989
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:02 pm

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Gray » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:41 pm

ilikebaseball wrote:I feel like its different from everyone. Like, if I was to ask "what is the best strategy?" I'd get 10 different answers. So right now, I'm throwin all the chips on the table and trying everything. I have 8 sections here with me of RC. This has gotta be unhealthy.


Tooooo much RC!!!!! Good luck!

User avatar
Louis1127
Posts: 817
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:12 pm

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Louis1127 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:27 pm

kbrizz wrote:Hmm looking at my schedule. Might be PTing after work tomorrow. :?

Any suggestions on which one to take? I have all of them, but am looking for a good starting point.


Which ones have you used for drilling (if any)?

User avatar
flash21
Posts: 1536
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:56 pm

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby flash21 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:55 pm

guys, I've drilled LG a ton. I've done all the games in 1-39, but in LG sections I did this weekend ( I did 2) I got 15 correct on both, and the one I did previous to that I got 18 correct (the most I've ever gotten on an LG section).

I am not really sure what else to do. I'm going to continue re-doing games, but I think I noticed that when the timer is on for sections I don't spend as much time upfront as I probably should be. In blind review I usually only miss a few or none, so I know how to DO the games, but sometimes with the timer on I make some dumb mistakes or simply take too long figuring out things I should have done quicker.

If anything, I'm beginning to realize the importance of not just mass drilling but also reviewing how you react to unfamiliar things. Spending more time up front and playing with the rules more will most definitely be something I spend more time on in future sections.. back to drilling for the rest of the week until next weekend though.

On a better note the two LR sections I did I got 21 correct on both, and did a bunch of timed RC sections ranging from 18-24 correct, so I've improved a lot from getting 12 right on my diagnostic, lol.

Any advice on LG would be super-appreciated.

User avatar
kbrizz
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 7:29 pm

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby kbrizz » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:02 pm

Louis1127 wrote:
kbrizz wrote:Hmm looking at my schedule. Might be PTing after work tomorrow. :?

Any suggestions on which one to take? I have all of them, but am looking for a good starting point.


Which ones have you used for drilling (if any)?



Only Cambridge 1-38 for LG.

User avatar
BillPackets
Posts: 2159
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:56 pm

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby BillPackets » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:08 pm

ilikebaseball wrote:I feel like its different from everyone. Like, if I was to ask "what is the best strategy?" I'd get 10 different answers. So right now, I'm throwin all the chips on the table and trying everything. I have 8 sections here with me of RC. This has gotta be unhealthy.


That's really accurate. I don't know if you used the trainer, but IMO his section on RC is the most helpful. He doesn't try to pressure you to develop some system of notation, but rather suggests that you ask yourself a couple of questions as you read. I use that strategy, rarely if ever make a mark on the passage, and typically go around -3.

User avatar
kbrizz
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 7:29 pm

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby kbrizz » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:12 pm

Okay apparently I really need some help with conditional logic.

I am having a hard time understanding why

A --> B/

is different from

A/ --> B .

I know this is a rookie question. Please bear in mind that I am embarrassed just asking this. I thought I had this down but I guess not. :oops:

ilikebaseball
Posts: 4103
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:04 am

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby ilikebaseball » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:14 pm

BillPackets wrote:
ilikebaseball wrote:I feel like its different from everyone. Like, if I was to ask "what is the best strategy?" I'd get 10 different answers. So right now, I'm throwin all the chips on the table and trying everything. I have 8 sections here with me of RC. This has gotta be unhealthy.


That's really accurate. I don't know if you used the trainer, but IMO his section on RC is the most helpful. He doesn't try to pressure you to develop some system of notation, but rather suggests that you ask yourself a couple of questions as you read. I use that strategy, rarely if ever make a mark on the passage, and typically go around -3.

Reading through it right now. He basically tells you to ask yourself "Why did the author write this?" and what else?

User avatar
BillPackets
Posts: 2159
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:56 pm

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby BillPackets » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:17 pm

kbrizz wrote:Okay apparently I really need some help with conditional logic.

I am having a hard time understanding why

A --> B/

is different from

A/ --> B .

I know this is a rookie question. Please bear in mind that I am embarrassed just asking this. I thought I had this down but I guess not. :oops:


From the rule A-->~B, you can only take the contrapositive, which is B-->~A.

Maybe it would help if you wrote it out?

All As are not B.

A
A
A
B
B
B

All Bs are not A.

Does that little illustration help?

User avatar
blueberrycrumble
Posts: 363
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:07 am

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby blueberrycrumble » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:18 pm

kbrizz wrote:Okay apparently I really need some help with conditional logic.

I am having a hard time understanding why

A --> B/

is different from

A/ --> B .

I know this is a rookie question. Please bear in mind that I am embarrassed just asking this. I thought I had this down but I guess not. :oops:


Fact: If A occurs, then B cannot occur. - Ex: If Sally enters the contest, Anna will not enter.

Inference: If A does not occur, B could either occur or not occur - we don't have enough information to tell. - Ex: If Sally does not enter the contest, Anna could either enter or not.

User avatar
BillPackets
Posts: 2159
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:56 pm

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby BillPackets » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:19 pm

ilikebaseball wrote:
BillPackets wrote:
ilikebaseball wrote:I feel like its different from everyone. Like, if I was to ask "what is the best strategy?" I'd get 10 different answers. So right now, I'm throwin all the chips on the table and trying everything. I have 8 sections here with me of RC. This has gotta be unhealthy.


That's really accurate. I don't know if you used the trainer, but IMO his section on RC is the most helpful. He doesn't try to pressure you to develop some system of notation, but rather suggests that you ask yourself a couple of questions as you read. I use that strategy, rarely if ever make a mark on the passage, and typically go around -3.

Reading through it right now. He basically tells you to ask yourself "Why did the author write this?" and what else?


Why did the author write this, how does this argument function within the overall structure of the passage...what's the purpose, etc.

What's your biggest problem with RC right now? Is it a certain passage type (like science), or reading for overall reasoning, or something else?

User avatar
Gray
Posts: 5989
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:02 pm

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Gray » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:21 pm

ilikebaseball wrote:
BillPackets wrote:
ilikebaseball wrote:I feel like its different from everyone. Like, if I was to ask "what is the best strategy?" I'd get 10 different answers. So right now, I'm throwin all the chips on the table and trying everything. I have 8 sections here with me of RC. This has gotta be unhealthy.


That's really accurate. I don't know if you used the trainer, but IMO his section on RC is the most helpful. He doesn't try to pressure you to develop some system of notation, but rather suggests that you ask yourself a couple of questions as you read. I use that strategy, rarely if ever make a mark on the passage, and typically go around -3.

Reading through it right now. He basically tells you to ask yourself "Why did the author write this?" and what else?


I think bolded is the truth, especially for RC. I didn't used to notate at all, but I started circling names and dates and underlining key points, and for me, I think it helps. Maybe that + reading for scale helps me actually pay attention. That, or I've been drilling and just slowly gotten better.

ilikebaseball
Posts: 4103
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:04 am

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby ilikebaseball » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:22 pm

BillPackets wrote:
ilikebaseball wrote:
BillPackets wrote:
ilikebaseball wrote:I feel like its different from everyone. Like, if I was to ask "what is the best strategy?" I'd get 10 different answers. So right now, I'm throwin all the chips on the table and trying everything. I have 8 sections here with me of RC. This has gotta be unhealthy.


That's really accurate. I don't know if you used the trainer, but IMO his section on RC is the most helpful. He doesn't try to pressure you to develop some system of notation, but rather suggests that you ask yourself a couple of questions as you read. I use that strategy, rarely if ever make a mark on the passage, and typically go around -3.

Reading through it right now. He basically tells you to ask yourself "Why did the author write this?" and what else?


Why did the author write this, how does this argument function within the overall structure of the passage...what's the purpose, etc.

What's your biggest problem with RC right now? Is it a certain passage type (like science), or reading for overall reasoning, or something else?


Definitely reading for reasoning. Also, a lot of times, I'll read answer choices and they all sound similar to me. Sometimes I cant even eliminate one choice.

User avatar
kbrizz
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 7:29 pm

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby kbrizz » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:22 pm

BillPackets wrote:
kbrizz wrote:Okay apparently I really need some help with conditional logic.

I am having a hard time understanding why

A --> B/

is different from

A/ --> B .

I know this is a rookie question. Please bear in mind that I am embarrassed just asking this. I thought I had this down but I guess not. :oops:


From the rule A-->~B, you can only take the contrapositive, which is B-->~A.

Maybe it would help if you wrote it out?

All As are not B.

A
A
A
B
B
B

All Bs are not A.

Does that little illustration help?



Yes, thanks!

User avatar
kbrizz
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 7:29 pm

Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby kbrizz » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:23 pm

blueberrycrumble wrote:
kbrizz wrote:Okay apparently I really need some help with conditional logic.

I am having a hard time understanding why

A --> B/

is different from

A/ --> B .

I know this is a rookie question. Please bear in mind that I am embarrassed just asking this. I thought I had this down but I guess not. :oops:


Fact: If A occurs, then B cannot occur. - Ex: If Sally enters the contest, Anna will not enter.

Inference: If A does not occur, B could either occur or not occur - we don't have enough information to tell. - Ex: If Sally does not enter the contest, Anna could either enter or not.



That's helpful, also! Thanks,




Return to “LSAT Prep and Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 4 guests