The Official September 2014 Study Group

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fra
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby fra » Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:04 pm

kbrizz wrote:So when I drill LG, I go over the questions by watching 7sage videos.

I learned diagramming and whatnot from Powerscore. Is there a problem with kind of using both powerscore and 7sage methods to solve logic games?

I mean, has anyone else found themselves doing this?


I do this on LG that I find difficult. I try not to follow any specific method, but rather do whatever makes sense to me, taking advice from multiple sources. I think that the more difficult games reward this kind of flexibility, and my hope is that this will keep me from being surprised by an unusual game.

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kbrizz
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby kbrizz » Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:22 am

fra wrote:
kbrizz wrote:So when I drill LG, I go over the questions by watching 7sage videos.

I learned diagramming and whatnot from Powerscore. Is there a problem with kind of using both powerscore and 7sage methods to solve logic games?

I mean, has anyone else found themselves doing this?


I do this on LG that I find difficult. I try not to follow any specific method, but rather do whatever makes sense to me, taking advice from multiple sources. I think that the more difficult games reward this kind of flexibility, and my hope is that this will keep me from being surprised by an unusual game.



Great! Thank you!

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kbrizz
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby kbrizz » Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:24 am

Another question -

As I've mentioned a few times now, I have been using Powerscore LG Bible to learn LG. I am drilling with Cambridge. I am having a hard time connecting the names that Cambridge uses with the names that powerscore uses to classify games.

For example, what is the powerscore equivalent to Cambridges relative ordering?


Thanks!

lsatdream
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby lsatdream » Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:50 am

Hopefully anyone can chime in. I'm a long time lurker that rarely posts, but I'm finally gaining some confidence.

I just took my first prep-test (36) and scored a timed 163, blind review 171. Stupid mistakes that was mostly due to early nerves (first two sections). I'm ecstatic because my cold diagnostic was 143 and I almost gave up on law school because of it.

Can I ask what do you guys usually get on blind review? And will speed come with time? Obviously I'm pretty elated right now, but I want to stay grounded as well since I know it's still a long road until September and possibly December.

TLDR: Half happy, half seeking advice on how accurate/beneficial blind review scores are and whether speed will improve.

Thanks in advance!

lsatdream
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby lsatdream » Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:54 am

kbrizz wrote:Another question -

As I've mentioned a few times now, I have been using Powerscore LG Bible to learn LG. I am drilling with Cambridge. I am having a hard time connecting the names that Cambridge uses with the names that powerscore uses to classify games.

For example, what is the powerscore equivalent to Cambridges relative ordering?


Thanks!


This site might be useful! http://www.cambridgelsat.com/resources/ ... ion-types/

I just do the packets and tend not to worry when the categories don't match perfectly... If anything, I think it's actually beneficial to mix it up so that it keeps you on your feet.

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kbrizz
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby kbrizz » Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:01 am

lsatdream wrote:
kbrizz wrote:Another question -

As I've mentioned a few times now, I have been using Powerscore LG Bible to learn LG. I am drilling with Cambridge. I am having a hard time connecting the names that Cambridge uses with the names that powerscore uses to classify games.

For example, what is the powerscore equivalent to Cambridges relative ordering?


Thanks!


This site might be useful! http://www.cambridgelsat.com/resources/ ... ion-types/

I just do the packets and tend not to worry when the categories don't match perfectly... If anything, I think it's actually beneficial to mix it up so that it keeps you on your feet.


Well, that helps a ton. Just realized the reason that I couldn't hack relative ordering is because I haven't covered that section in Powerscore. I might become a lawyer, after all! :oops: :mrgreen:

Also, as to your blind review question - I can't answer that, I am not as experienced. Hopefully someone else can though. :)

some1uknown
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby some1uknown » Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:12 am

Just got through drilling myself on diagramming. -11/39 a bit rusty after taking a month off. oh well, back at it tomorrow

kirilrez
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby kirilrez » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:17 am

I currently able to do 3 games out of 4 in 35 minutes in LG.

So my question is what is the best way to pick up the pace?

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Frozinite
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Frozinite » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:45 am

kirilrez wrote:I currently able to do 3 games out of 4 in 35 minutes in LG.

So my question is what is the best way to pick up the pace?


Drill and drill and drill and drill. And review and review... You get the idea.

The best way to get faster is to have so many patterns in your head that you can immediately recall how you solved the pattern last time (or the last 10 times) and apply the same problem solving algorithm to the question at hand.

And of course, just getting used to the pace you need to keep to hit 7 minutes for each game (this should come during your drill/review/retakes).

kirilrez
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby kirilrez » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:17 am

Drill and drill and drill and drill. And review and review... You get the idea.

The best way to get faster is to have so many patterns in your head that you can immediately recall how you solved the pattern last time (or the last 10 times) and apply the same problem solving algorithm to the question at hand.

And of course, just getting used to the pace you need to keep to hit 7 minutes for each game (this should come during your drill/review/retakes).


Thanks.

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Comstock
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Comstock » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:18 am

Hey guys, first time poster, been lurking since May when I started LSAT prep. This thread has been so useful so just wanted to thank-you all. Yesterday I hit my first 170+ (173! PT 28) and it felt so good. Diagnostic was 154 with something like -18 on LG, and for the life of me I could not figure it out for the first few weeks. Yesterday went -1. For all of you still struggling, especially with LG, keep it up and it will start flowing.

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Comstock
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Comstock » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:23 am

kirilrez wrote:I currently able to do 3 games out of 4 in 35 minutes in LG.

So my question is what is the best way to pick up the pace?


The biggest benefit to me was realizing when I "know" an answer and being able to save time on those types of questions. There should be a few questions in each game where you just read the question stem and already know what answer they are looking for. This helps save time especially for the harder questions where you may need to make some hypos, etc.

For me, the biggest development of this was drilling and not worrying about if I was getting right or wrong answers per say. If I thought I knew it, I would just answer it and move one and not waste 30-45 seconds double checking it to like I used to do. Once I started doing that I started finishing on time more and more.

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Louis1127
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Louis1127 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:00 am

lsatdream wrote:Hopefully anyone can chime in. I'm a long time lurker that rarely posts, but I'm finally gaining some confidence.

I just took my first prep-test (36) and scored a timed 163, blind review 171. Stupid mistakes that was mostly due to early nerves (first two sections). I'm ecstatic because my cold diagnostic was 143 and I almost gave up on law school because of it.

Can I ask what do you guys usually get on blind review? And will speed come with time? Obviously I'm pretty elated right now, but I want to stay grounded as well since I know it's still a long road until September and possibly December.

TLDR: Half happy, half seeking advice on how accurate/beneficial blind review scores are and whether speed will improve.

Thanks in advance!


Nice work bro/sis! Unfortunately speed is a bug hurdle for me right now, so I can't be of much help :(


For difficult LR questions that I was sure that I didn't 100 percent grasp, I type out an explanation of the stimulus with the argument, and gaps/flaws I notice in the argument, and and why each answer choice is correct or incorrect. then I check that explanation against the "key", which can be a personal tutor, whatever course you are enrolled in, or the Manhattan forums.

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sfoglia
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby sfoglia » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:19 am

Comstock wrote:Hey guys, first time poster, been lurking since May when I started LSAT prep. This thread has been so useful so just wanted to thank-you all. Yesterday I hit my first 170+ (173! PT 28) and it felt so good. Diagnostic was 154 with something like -18 on LG, and for the life of me I could not figure it out for the first few weeks. Yesterday went -1. For all of you still struggling, especially with LG, keep it up and it will start flowing.


Congratulations! That is absolutely fantastic.

And thank you for the encouragement! I'm lucky if I get half right on LG right now, so, hoping your experience will be indicative of mine.

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Oskosh
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Oskosh » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:41 am

Are the LR sections from The Next 10 Actual Official LSAT Preptests known for being harder? Because these questions seem harder to me lol. :|

agalfano
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby agalfano » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:14 am

Best company for live courses....

Any input!?!?!?!?!


:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

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longhorn65
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby longhorn65 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:18 am

SOOOoo even though the majority of people in this board were anticlass ive found it to be extremely helpful for me. It gives me the structure I need plus the guy knows how to diagram LG perfectly. So if you struggle to stay on track and really hammer it; it could be a good idea to take a course. that being said the guy I take it with wrote his own course and its more of a tutor session then a class so I would try and find a course with a lot of 1 on 1 time.

tolopo
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby tolopo » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:34 am

hi guys, thought i'd add some updates.
so yesterday night/early this morning, I finally finished drilling all of the lg from cambridge (1-38). I wanted to do it in 1 month and leave July completely for redrilling for time and more accuracy but I kind of just let myself go in the last week/10 days of June and finished a week behind. I have completely neglected lr and somewhat neglected reading comprehension. So now I have to get on that as well as redrilling lg.

I'm really happy to say, that when I first started logic games, I used the powerscore logic game type training and basically stopped after like 4-5 games, and could not solve anything, almost like hitting a brick wall each time. With much patience and motivation, I now see inferences regularly, once blurted out "that's fricken gorgeous" at a really beautiful and complete diagram while watching 7sage redo a question I had issues with, and actually enjoy lg overall. never thought I'd be able to say this!

So I have not been strict with timing at all: the fastest game I've completed was around 5-6 minutes, and the slowest 40+ minutes. Most games take 20-30 minutes (for cambridge level 2-4 questions). Rarely, Cambridge level 1 2 seems like a 4+ to me, and sometimes level 4 seems easier than level 1 to me. One night I was very behind so I completed 17 games/100 questions with no errors. The good part is I'm quite happy with the accuracy:

Results (in the order I completed each set):

Simple Ordering (24 games/139 questions): 128/139 correct; all mistakes were stupid, I counted a line wrong, wrote down a wrong letter, etc.
Relative Ordering (7 games/39 questions): 33/39 correct
Complex Ordering (20 games/123 questions): 120/123 correct
Grouping Distribution (19 games/117 questions): 110/117 correct
In/Out Grouping (13 games/83 questions): 77/83 correct
Determined Assignment (23 games/130 questions): 127/130 correct; overall needed better diagrams, did not understand rule
Undetermined Assignment (28 games/165 questions): 164/165 correct; one mistake was wrote down a letter wrong
Miscellaneous (18 games/109 questions): 102/109 correct a couple of games did not understand.

Total: 152 games/905 questions
Total correct: 861/905 questions
Total wrong: 44/905 questions

Any advice on how to proceed? Improving timing is my highest priority, and tbh, with all of the drilling, I have not finished the powerscore/manhattan books yet on LG. Should I drill everything over again, or just focus on the ones I made mistakes in?

Thank you!

d0rklord
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby d0rklord » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:41 am

lsatdream wrote:Hopefully anyone can chime in. I'm a long time lurker that rarely posts, but I'm finally gaining some confidence.

I just took my first prep-test (36) and scored a timed 163, blind review 171. Stupid mistakes that was mostly due to early nerves (first two sections). I'm ecstatic because my cold diagnostic was 143 and I almost gave up on law school because of it.

Can I ask what do you guys usually get on blind review? And will speed come with time? Obviously I'm pretty elated right now, but I want to stay grounded as well since I know it's still a long road until September and possibly December.

TLDR: Half happy, half seeking advice on how accurate/beneficial blind review scores are and whether speed will improve.

Thanks in advance!



What I do is... while i take a PT I circle any questions that I'm no 100% sure of...

Then I redo those after untimed (before I score my PT)

Then I use 7sage's grader and enter in my answers, and BR answers...

Then I grade it...

If I got the answer wrong on BR ORRR if I didn't circle it for BR but got it wrong... I DEFINITELY go over those thoroughly (usually with Manhattan's forums) :D

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bound
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby bound » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:56 am

To those who ordered the Cambridge packets:


Did ya'll download them in .pdf or order the books? Pros to downloading - I get them today. Cons - printing is annoying.

d0rklord
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby d0rklord » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:57 am

bound wrote:To those who ordered the Cambridge packets:


Did ya'll download them in .pdf or order the books? Pros to downloading - I get them today. Cons - printing is annoying.


I print errythan at work :X

Pros to to downloading: you can write all over them && print a fresh copy to redo them :D

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Louis1127
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Louis1127 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:05 pm

Oskosh wrote:Are the LR sections from The Next 10 Actual Official LSAT Preptests known for being harder? Because these questions seem harder to me lol. :|


not sure which ones those are. i personally find older LR (pre 30s) to be harder. but im pretty inconsistent w/ LR so idk...

kirilrez
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby kirilrez » Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:41 pm

A little background: I finished the LGB, then I went to drilling simple ordering, relative ordering, etc.

Now I hit a brick-wall every time I do a whole section. It's mostly not nerves, but me at the third game stopping seeing the necessery inferences and wasting time on a lot of questions making hypos and re-reading the question the rules of the game etc, it happens on all game types for me.

My question is what should I do now. I definately will drill more as suggested, but I need some way to build game endurance, I'm willing to do what it takes for that

birdlaw624
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby birdlaw624 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:52 pm

bound wrote:To those who ordered the Cambridge packets:


Did ya'll download them in .pdf or order the books? Pros to downloading - I get them today. Cons - printing is annoying.

gotta PDF so you can reprint them multiple times

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fra
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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby fra » Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:11 pm

kirilrez wrote:A little background: I finished the LGB, then I went to drilling simple ordering, relative ordering, etc.

Now I hit a brick-wall every time I do a whole section. It's mostly not nerves, but me at the third game stopping seeing the necessery inferences and wasting time on a lot of questions making hypos and re-reading the question the rules of the game etc, it happens on all game types for me.

My question is what should I do now. I definately will drill more as suggested, but I need some way to build game endurance, I'm willing to do what it takes for that



Sometimes mid section I have to 'press a mental reset button'. I close my eyes, take a deep breath, and try to clear my mind. If I've hit a wall on a game then it means that I'm trying to approach it in the wrong way, so I forget about my previous approach (no sense in beating your head against the wall) and try to look at the game with fresh eyes. If that doesn't help then try skipping that game to come back to later.

The same thing occasionally happens to me in LR and RC sections. I find myself rereading something over and over, not absorbing information as well as I'd like. I do the same thing. Close my eyes, take a deep breath, recenter my mind. It takes a few seconds max.




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