The Official September 2014 Study Group

Prepare for the LSAT or discuss it with others in this forum.
ilikebaseball

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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby ilikebaseball » Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:35 am

ilawsxhool1 wrote:
choward014 wrote:
ilawsxhool1 wrote:How often do you guys take Full Timed LSAT's? I don't want to do so many 3 months out.


ill start on that about 5 weeks out, taking one every other day. then when im two weeks away, ill take 2 every other day just to work my endurance up.



That sounds like my plan, I was just getting nervous because it seems everyone on here is taking one every week. I don't want to run-out of material.


idk its just whatever works for you. i really wanted to emphasize studying on LR until I think I got it to -5 or less. I guess one a week would work too.. then during the week you could see what you struggled in that weekend and work on it all week, but i think both are fine.

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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby gavaga1 » Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:09 am

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Postby Gray » Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:25 am

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mornincounselor

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kirilrez

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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby kirilrez » Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:03 pm

I have a specific problem on LG grouping games. I seem to not know when to draw templates or use hypos instead..
Do you have some tips on that?

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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby MadwomanintheAttic » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:00 pm

smccgrey wrote:
danmcc413 wrote:Hey All - How is everyone else who is also working full time doing? I keep finding myself burned out by this point in the week and its always so difficult for me to keep focus. My goal is just to get around 15 hours per week in bc I thankfully have a high starting point based on my diagnostic and subsequent PTs but I'm still having trouble efficiently hitting 15 hours. I may study 15+ hours in a week but not necessarily in an effective manner. How is everyone else who is similarly situated dealing with drained energy/general tiredness etc? Thanks, and hope everyone's studies are going well! Another few months and we'll hopefully all be done with this forever.


Also work full time, also had a high diagnostic. I am drilling when I have energy in the evenings (maybe 30 minutes here and there) and spending about 10 hours over the weekend in the library taking PTs and reviewing past PTs. I'm also taking the week before the exam off to study, relax a little, and get my sleep schedule right. If I can hit my current PT average on test day I'll be happy!



Another full timer here! I try to do 3+hrs after work and then dedicate the weekend to the exam. I used to try and push through even when dead tired, but now if I'm too tired I stop. I realized pushing through tears of exhaustion isn't the most productive study method. I'm less concerned about the number of hours I put in and more so the quality of that prep time, so far I think that's working. I'm also taking a week off before the exam to prep and relax.

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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby gavaga1 » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:30 pm

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Postby Gray » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:42 pm

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sfoglia

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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby sfoglia » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:06 pm

gnomgnomuch wrote:
sfoglia wrote:Depressed. Scored 2 points LOWER on yesterday's practice test. 20 hours of studying and negative gain.


Don't look at it that way. First - your scores will fluctuate within a certain score range, going 158-160-162 doesn't mean you're getting worse, it just means that particular test tested your strengths or weaknesses in a way that was bad or good for you.

Second, line the two tests up, where did you mess up more, did you miss LG or did you miss LR, if LR what kind of questions were causing you problems, drill those, read the book you have. If it was RC, same process as for LR.

Finally, I've got no idea where in your prep you are, but id recommend going over the first test in super depth. Every question you weren't 100% sure, you circle and you go back too. After that, retake the test, see if you can go 180/175/170. It's not about getting the score, but it IS about making sure that you've identified the reasoning that led you to incorrect thinking, and then trying to avoid that reasoning on new tests.


Perseverance is 90% of everything in my experience, most people fall within the intelligence range to work their way up to a 170 score, most people however don't have the desire to sacrifice to get to the score.

....and this is all assuming you want a 170+ score.
=D


You assume right. Mid 170s.

What frustrates me is that I've spent the past few weeks focusing nearly exclusively on Logic Games, and my gain there was negligible, really. But, I did twice as poorly on both Logical Reasoning and Reading Comprehension. So, I feel completely unsure of how to proceed with studying now. Do I just set LG aside, under the assumption that I am very unlikely to do better than about 15-17 in that section? Why did I do so poorly on LR and RC?

As far as circling incorrect answers and understanding where I was mistaken, this feels entirely unproductive for me. It's upsetting, really, because I can very easily distinguish wrong from right under non-test conditions. With twice the amount of time, I can answer very close to all correctly. But I cannot do so in 35 minutes. My anxiety level goes through the roof; I can barely concentrate on what it is that I am reading, and I have to re-read each logical reasoning question on average three times, each reading comprehension passage at least twice. I am a horrible standardized test-taker. Just horrible.

I'm not the type to give up, but I will not take this test in September unless I begin to score consistently 175+ for at least a few weeks beforehand. And I really do not want to defer until December. I want to be able to focus exclusively on my applications this fall. I took my Literature GRE in November when I had applied to English graduate school, so I know from experience that I cannot do both well.

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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Pure Protein » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:09 pm

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sfoglia

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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby sfoglia » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:12 pm

mornincounselor wrote:About taking real pretests this "soon" in the process.

If a person only takes 1 PT per week thats only 11 PTs from now until test day. If we assume for the last 6 weeks we are taking 2 thats still only 17. If we start at 52 we still wouldn't get all the way to the present.

I can't really imagine taking a first post-drilling PT only 5 weeks out from the test. Preptesting is exhausting, maybe if you have no other responsibilities you can swing 3 a week. Even then that's only 15 tests. And, with 3 a week I doubt you'd have the constitution to properly blind review and analyze them.


Ditto, agree. I'm trying for one a week until mid August.

I've also read that re-taking practice tests can still be incredibly productive. Unless you have a photographic memory, you are very unlikely to remember which answer was which, and in fact, you are more likely to become confused if you try to recall (e.g. "I think I answered c, but it ended up being d. Or was it that I answered d, but it really was c?"). So, I'm entirely unconcerned about running out of tests, even if I do end up switching to the December date.

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ilikebaseball

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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby ilikebaseball » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:14 pm

sfoglia wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:
sfoglia wrote:Depressed. Scored 2 points LOWER on yesterday's practice test. 20 hours of studying and negative gain.


Don't look at it that way. First - your scores will fluctuate within a certain score range, going 158-160-162 doesn't mean you're getting worse, it just means that particular test tested your strengths or weaknesses in a way that was bad or good for you.

Second, line the two tests up, where did you mess up more, did you miss LG or did you miss LR, if LR what kind of questions were causing you problems, drill those, read the book you have. If it was RC, same process as for LR.

Finally, I've got no idea where in your prep you are, but id recommend going over the first test in super depth. Every question you weren't 100% sure, you circle and you go back too. After that, retake the test, see if you can go 180/175/170. It's not about getting the score, but it IS about making sure that you've identified the reasoning that led you to incorrect thinking, and then trying to avoid that reasoning on new tests.


Perseverance is 90% of everything in my experience, most people fall within the intelligence range to work their way up to a 170 score, most people however don't have the desire to sacrifice to get to the score.

....and this is all assuming you want a 170+ score.
=D


You assume right. Mid 170s.

What frustrates me is that I've spent the past few weeks focusing nearly exclusively on Logic Games, and my gain there was negligible, really. But, I did twice as poorly on both Logical Reasoning and Reading Comprehension. So, I feel completely unsure of how to proceed with studying now. Do I just set LG aside, under the assumption that I am very unlikely to do better than about 15-17 in that section? Why did I do so poorly on LR and RC?

As far as circling incorrect answers and understanding where I was mistaken, this feels entirely unproductive for me. It's upsetting, really, because I can very easily distinguish wrong from right under non-test conditions. With twice the amount of time, I can answer very close to all correctly. But I cannot do so in 35 minutes. My anxiety level goes through the roof; I can barely concentrate on what it is that I am reading, and I have to re-read each logical reasoning question on average three times, each reading comprehension passage at least twice. I am a horrible standardized test-taker. Just horrible.

I'm not the type to give up, but I will not take this test in September unless I begin to score consistently 175+ for at least a few weeks beforehand. And I really do not want to defer until December. I want to be able to focus exclusively on my applications this fall. I took my Literature GRE in November when I had applied to English graduate school, so I know from experience that I cannot do both well.


Sorta goes back to the common phrase "anyone can get a 180 with unlimited time"

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sfoglia

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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby sfoglia » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:17 pm

MadwomanintheAttic wrote:
smccgrey wrote:
danmcc413 wrote:Hey All - How is everyone else who is also working full time doing? I keep finding myself burned out by this point in the week and its always so difficult for me to keep focus. My goal is just to get around 15 hours per week in bc I thankfully have a high starting point based on my diagnostic and subsequent PTs but I'm still having trouble efficiently hitting 15 hours. I may study 15+ hours in a week but not necessarily in an effective manner. How is everyone else who is similarly situated dealing with drained energy/general tiredness etc? Thanks, and hope everyone's studies are going well! Another few months and we'll hopefully all be done with this forever.


Also work full time, also had a high diagnostic. I am drilling when I have energy in the evenings (maybe 30 minutes here and there) and spending about 10 hours over the weekend in the library taking PTs and reviewing past PTs. I'm also taking the week before the exam off to study, relax a little, and get my sleep schedule right. If I can hit my current PT average on test day I'll be happy!



Another full timer here! I try to do 3+hrs after work and then dedicate the weekend to the exam. I used to try and push through even when dead tired, but now if I'm too tired I stop. I realized pushing through tears of exhaustion isn't the most productive study method. I'm less concerned about the number of hours I put in and more so the quality of that prep time, so far I think that's working. I'm also taking a week off before the exam to prep and relax.


Obsessed with your screenname.

I'm also trying for between 2 and 4 hours after work. I study on the train, on my way home, so that affords me an hour right there. Because I am loathe to spend 10 hours studying during the weekend, I am likely to begin studying during my lunch hour a few times a week. And maybe on my commute to work, as well.

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sfoglia

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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby sfoglia » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:17 pm

choward014 wrote:
sfoglia wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:
sfoglia wrote:Depressed. Scored 2 points LOWER on yesterday's practice test. 20 hours of studying and negative gain.


Don't look at it that way. First - your scores will fluctuate within a certain score range, going 158-160-162 doesn't mean you're getting worse, it just means that particular test tested your strengths or weaknesses in a way that was bad or good for you.

Second, line the two tests up, where did you mess up more, did you miss LG or did you miss LR, if LR what kind of questions were causing you problems, drill those, read the book you have. If it was RC, same process as for LR.

Finally, I've got no idea where in your prep you are, but id recommend going over the first test in super depth. Every question you weren't 100% sure, you circle and you go back too. After that, retake the test, see if you can go 180/175/170. It's not about getting the score, but it IS about making sure that you've identified the reasoning that led you to incorrect thinking, and then trying to avoid that reasoning on new tests.


Perseverance is 90% of everything in my experience, most people fall within the intelligence range to work their way up to a 170 score, most people however don't have the desire to sacrifice to get to the score.

....and this is all assuming you want a 170+ score.
=D


You assume right. Mid 170s.

What frustrates me is that I've spent the past few weeks focusing nearly exclusively on Logic Games, and my gain there was negligible, really. But, I did twice as poorly on both Logical Reasoning and Reading Comprehension. So, I feel completely unsure of how to proceed with studying now. Do I just set LG aside, under the assumption that I am very unlikely to do better than about 15-17 in that section? Why did I do so poorly on LR and RC?

As far as circling incorrect answers and understanding where I was mistaken, this feels entirely unproductive for me. It's upsetting, really, because I can very easily distinguish wrong from right under non-test conditions. With twice the amount of time, I can answer very close to all correctly. But I cannot do so in 35 minutes. My anxiety level goes through the roof; I can barely concentrate on what it is that I am reading, and I have to re-read each logical reasoning question on average three times, each reading comprehension passage at least twice. I am a horrible standardized test-taker. Just horrible.

I'm not the type to give up, but I will not take this test in September unless I begin to score consistently 175+ for at least a few weeks beforehand. And I really do not want to defer until December. I want to be able to focus exclusively on my applications this fall. I took my Literature GRE in November when I had applied to English graduate school, so I know from experience that I cannot do both well.


Sorta goes back to the common phrase "anyone can get a 180 with unlimited time"


Just twice as much time! I'm not asking so much!

:)

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Postby Gray » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:30 pm

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brooklynboy

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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby brooklynboy » Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:37 pm

I'm also struggling a bit with RC, because it's the section in which my scores are the least consistent. I have been steadily improving in both LG and LR, but I went from -1 to -4 on RC between my last two PTs (52 and 53). I'm working my way through the Trainer and haven't gotten to the RC chapters yet -- I'll let you all know if I find that helpful. I've already gone through Manhattan RC, which I really liked and, I believe, is responsible for my -1 RC on PT 52.

Fwiw, my RC diagnostic was -5.

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gnomgnomuch

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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby gnomgnomuch » Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:11 pm

sfoglia wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:
sfoglia wrote:Depressed. Scored 2 points LOWER on yesterday's practice test. 20 hours of studying and negative gain.


Don't look at it that way. First - your scores will fluctuate within a certain score range, going 158-160-162 doesn't mean you're getting worse, it just means that particular test tested your strengths or weaknesses in a way that was bad or good for you.

Second, line the two tests up, where did you mess up more, did you miss LG or did you miss LR, if LR what kind of questions were causing you problems, drill those, read the book you have. If it was RC, same process as for LR.

Finally, I've got no idea where in your prep you are, but id recommend going over the first test in super depth. Every question you weren't 100% sure, you circle and you go back too. After that, retake the test, see if you can go 180/175/170. It's not about getting the score, but it IS about making sure that you've identified the reasoning that led you to incorrect thinking, and then trying to avoid that reasoning on new tests.


Perseverance is 90% of everything in my experience, most people fall within the intelligence range to work their way up to a 170 score, most people however don't have the desire to sacrifice to get to the score.

....and this is all assuming you want a 170+ score.
=D


You assume right. Mid 170s.

What frustrates me is that I've spent the past few weeks focusing nearly exclusively on Logic Games, and my gain there was negligible, really. But, I did twice as poorly on both Logical Reasoning and Reading Comprehension. So, I feel completely unsure of how to proceed with studying now. Do I just set LG aside, under the assumption that I am very unlikely to do better than about 15-17 in that section? Why did I do so poorly on LR and RC?

As far as circling incorrect answers and understanding where I was mistaken, this feels entirely unproductive for me. It's upsetting, really, because I can very easily distinguish wrong from right under non-test conditions. With twice the amount of time, I can answer very close to all correctly. But I cannot do so in 35 minutes. My anxiety level goes through the roof; I can barely concentrate on what it is that I am reading, and I have to re-read each logical reasoning question on average three times, each reading comprehension passage at least twice. I am a horrible standardized test-taker. Just horrible.

I'm not the type to give up, but I will not take this test in September unless I begin to score consistently 175+ for at least a few weeks beforehand. And I really do not want to defer until December. I want to be able to focus exclusively on my applications this fall. I took my Literature GRE in November when I had applied to English graduate school, so I know from experience that I cannot do both well.


I dont know what to say about the poor standardized test-taking, I actually do better when im under pressure. But honestly, for LR if you can get done with the first 10 questions in 10 minutes and even better yet, 15 in 15. You'll have 2 minutes a question for the hardest questions (thats not a hard and fast rule, but generally the further in the section you are, the harder the questions are) and of those, you should be able to answer 2-4 in a minute each. Work on being able to fly through the easy LR questions accurately and slow it down for the hard ones.

We're a long way away from September so don't give up hope, but if you're not close to your goals by say mid august, you should consider postponing until you're certain to get a score that you're comfortable with... It sucks to hear, but I'm not settling for anything under a 172 and if i dont get that score, ill retake until i do have that score, even if it means i have to postpone law school for a year or two and work full time somewhere.

But we're all here for each other as support (i hope =P), so keep your chin up, crack open those books and drill, drill and drill!

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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby kittenmittens » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:51 pm

Took PT 62 today.

Timed:
163 (-25)
RC (-6)
LR (-8)
LG (-9)
LR (-2)

BR:
174 (-10)
RC (-3)
LR (-5)
LG (0)
LR (-2)

Not working quickly enough is certainly an issue for LR & LG as I didn't have time to answer 15 q's between section 2 & 3. The timed score is right around my diagnostic, so the drilling and reading I've been doing I guess haven't translated into success in timed situations. I do enjoy breaking down the questions I got wrong, especially in LR, but I feel like I haven't gotten good at figuring out how to do them more efficiently. Any take-aways you would have from my numbers?

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Oskosh

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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby Oskosh » Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:12 pm

Seeing some improvement in logical reasoning! Went -1 and -2 on the LR sections of the PT I took today.

Something that should be easy to fix: The fact that I sometimes am SOO confident in an answer and choose it without reading the others, and another answer ends up doing a better job. For instance, one of the questions that I got wrong was a role question (PT 33, Section 3, Question 14). I see that it says that the statistics are used to show that there is NO relation (I should have doubted it then, with such strong wording!), but I went for it and answered D. As it turns out, E had a softer, more correct answer (suggest that the number... is not the only influence). Ugh!

Problem that I can't find my way out of: Overthinking. Same preptest, same section, but question 7. I eliminate answer choice a because I think that newspapers and tvs offering more "comprehensive" coverage is insignificant to the argument. Like, they could still offer the same number of stories, but they would just expound on them at length.

Bleh!

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sfoglia

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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby sfoglia » Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:48 pm

gnomgnomuch wrote:
sfoglia wrote:
You assume right. Mid 170s.

What frustrates me is that I've spent the past few weeks focusing nearly exclusively on Logic Games, and my gain there was negligible, really. But, I did twice as poorly on both Logical Reasoning and Reading Comprehension. So, I feel completely unsure of how to proceed with studying now. Do I just set LG aside, under the assumption that I am very unlikely to do better than about 15-17 in that section? Why did I do so poorly on LR and RC?

As far as circling incorrect answers and understanding where I was mistaken, this feels entirely unproductive for me. It's upsetting, really, because I can very easily distinguish wrong from right under non-test conditions. With twice the amount of time, I can answer very close to all correctly. But I cannot do so in 35 minutes. My anxiety level goes through the roof; I can barely concentrate on what it is that I am reading, and I have to re-read each logical reasoning question on average three times, each reading comprehension passage at least twice. I am a horrible standardized test-taker. Just horrible.

I'm not the type to give up, but I will not take this test in September unless I begin to score consistently 175+ for at least a few weeks beforehand. And I really do not want to defer until December. I want to be able to focus exclusively on my applications this fall. I took my Literature GRE in November when I had applied to English graduate school, so I know from experience that I cannot do both well.


I dont know what to say about the poor standardized test-taking, I actually do better when im under pressure. But honestly, for LR if you can get done with the first 10 questions in 10 minutes and even better yet, 15 in 15. You'll have 2 minutes a question for the hardest questions (thats not a hard and fast rule, but generally the further in the section you are, the harder the questions are) and of those, you should be able to answer 2-4 in a minute each. Work on being able to fly through the easy LR questions accurately and slow it down for the hard ones.

We're a long way away from September so don't give up hope, but if you're not close to your goals by say mid august, you should consider postponing until you're certain to get a score that you're comfortable with... It sucks to hear, but I'm not settling for anything under a 172 and if i dont get that score, ill retake until i do have that score, even if it means i have to postpone law school for a year or two and work full time somewhere.

But we're all here for each other as support (i hope =P), so keep your chin up, crack open those books and drill, drill and drill!


That will definitely have to be my strategy for LR. I'm reading through the Manhattan right now (I need some space from LG right now), and I'm really liking it so far. I'm only 250 pages in, so we'll see where I am after next week's PT.

Thank you for the encouragement!

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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby kittenmittens » Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:54 pm

Oskosh wrote:Seeing some improvement in logical reasoning! Went -1 and -2 on the LR sections of the PT I took today.

Something that should be easy to fix: The fact that I sometimes am SOO confident in an answer and choose it without reading the others, and another answer ends up doing a better job. For instance, one of the questions that I got wrong was a role question (PT 33, Section 3, Question 14). I see that it says that the statistics are used to show that there is NO relation (I should have doubted it then, with such strong wording!), but I went for it and answered D. As it turns out, E had a softer, more correct answer (suggest that the number... is not the only influence). Ugh!

Problem that I can't find my way out of: Overthinking. Same preptest, same section, but question 7. I eliminate answer choice a because I think that newspapers and tvs offering more "comprehensive" coverage is insignificant to the argument. Like, they could still offer the same number of stories, but they would just expound on them at length.

Bleh!


What I'm trying to focus on in LR every question is : What is the premise to conclusion jump and what are they failing to consider. For PT33.3.7 when reading the question I see
Premise: change in media coverage
Conclusion: Violence is out of control.
The stem is basically a weaken question so I would look for something that could explain the media coverage does not show that violence is out of control. I would probably not eliminate answers talking about the media coverage my first go around because (as someone else in this thread emphasized to me earlier) strengthen/weaken answers aren't always slam dunks.

PT33.3.14
Premise: Similar ratios have different crime rates.
Conclusion: Increasing the number of officer is NOT the only way decrease crime
Since the statistics are the premise the question is basically "What is the conclusion of the argument"
I've been using much more process of elimination in LR than when I started out. Maybe this would help your issue of being overconfident in one answer choice, saying that you won't circle/bubble an answer until you've read all the answers and crossed out ones you know are wrong.

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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby bpolley0 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:57 am

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appind

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Re: The Official September 2014 Study Group

Postby appind » Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:32 pm

I got a 163 in June while trying to balance my full time work with the studies. It's 10 points below my last fresh PT before the test. The kicker is that it's a regression from my December score even though I felt 10X better prepped. It's disappointing. I am not sure what went wrong with the actual test so really not sure what I need to fix. I did very poorly in RC despite having improved on it a great deal during PTs. Had a much higher PT average :?
I am beginning to look at trainer again, having done it once before, but not sure what I'd learn I already know the material. The main takeaway from trainer for RC is to read for structure, which I already try to do. For questions, I have to refer back to the passage multiple times to confirm the details. Under time pressure I just have to move on without being 100% on some questions.
When you say "studying" what do you mean? 99% of my study time is taking prep test questions by type/sections or taking full prep tests and reviewing them. What else can be included in studying? I already know the material having done bibles and trainer so there is no actual studying that I do.



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