Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

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rpupkin
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby rpupkin » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:38 am

So you guys think there is a real chance that LSAC will look through the content of my phone? Could they actually look at my g-chat logs? This has me very worried, as I had a couple of conversations with a friend last week about how I could inform him of some attributes of the Saturday test before he started. (I'm on the East Coast and my friend is in Hawaii.) We were mostly joking, but now I'm concerned that LSAC will find these conversations and determine that they are incriminating.

I just can't believe they would start opening up my personal communications. Do they have a right to do that?

And, yes, I am of course angry at my friend's girlfriend if she's responsible for all of this. (As I said, I'm not 100% sure she is the one who informed the proctor.) There's actually a chance I'll see her tonight at a holiday party, though it's looking like the event might be cancelled due to the weather.

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runthetrap
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby runthetrap » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:47 am

rpupkin wrote:And, yes, I am of course angry at my friend's girlfriend if she's responsible for all of this. (As I said, I'm not 100% sure she is the one who informed the proctor.)

i'd hit that bitch w a bottle. good luck to her getting far in this world w that stank attitude. hope this situation works out as well as possible for you

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USAO-vet
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby USAO-vet » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:10 am

I think the OP is going to be fine. LSAC isn't going to be searching through your phone. In fact, when they get word from this crazy proctor that she confiscated your property they will likely shit a brick. The central problem here is that LSAC doesn't properly train the dolts they use as proctors. I'm sure it says somewhere in their training materials that if they catch someone cheating they should retain any evidence, but this surely is directed at things like cheat sheets, not someones personal property. This bitch has committed theft. She had no right to take your phone and I would be shocked if LSAC doesn't have it promptly returned to you as soon as they catch word.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby ScottRiqui » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:22 am

OP:

You know you're not supposed to bring your phone into the test center, but you forget and do it anyway.

On your phone are "mostly joking" conversations with a buddy, talking about you getting him answers before he takes the LSAT.

You decide to stash the phone during the break, rather than just making sure it's off and leaving it in your fucking pocket.

Of course, an acquaintance sees you stash it, and is actually enough of a hosebeast bitch that she rats you out to a proctor.

When confronted by the proctor, you promptly spill your guts and confess everything, rather than just saying "Dunno what that girl's talking about; I put the phone there before the test started".

The proctor actually seizes your cellphone and is evidently going to turn it over to LSAC. For forensic analysis?


Does that pretty much sum it up? Either this whole thread is a flame, or you have the worst dumb fucking luck in the Universe.

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midwest17
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby midwest17 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:57 am

LSAC informs you that your items are subject to confiscation if you bring them in. Proctor was perfectly within her rights.

LSAC wrote:Prohibited items. Candidates are not permitted to bring into the test center the following items: weapons or firearms, ear plugs, books, backpacks, handbags, papers of any kind, calculators, rulers, timers, listening devices, cellular phones, recording or photographic devices, pagers, beepers, headsets, and/or other electronic devices. Hats or hoods may not be worn (except items of religious apparel). Bringing prohibited items into the test room may result in the confiscation of such items by the test supervisor, a warning, dismissal from the test center, and/or cancellation of a test score by LSAC. Prohibited items may not be used during the break. LSAC and LSAT testing staff are not responsible for test takers' belongings.


They don't have to prove you cheated to give you a P ("Cancel/Possession Electronic Device"):

LSAC wrote:LSAC has adopted a no-tolerance policy with regard to possession of electronic devices. Under no circumstances are test takers permitted to bring an electronic device into the test center. Test supervisors and their staff are advised NOT to hold such items and are instructed to dismiss any test taker found in possession of or using an electronic device. Such devices include, but are not limited to:
  • electronic timers of any kind
  • digital watches, alarm watches, beeping watches, calculator watches
  • cell phones, pay phones, beepers, pagers, personal digital assistants (PDAs)
  • personal computers
  • calculators
  • photographic or recording devices
  • listening devices
  • headsets, iPods, or other media players
Any test taker found in possession of or using an electronic device will be dismissed from the test center and their score will be cancelled. A security cancellation notice will display on reports sent to law schools requesting the file.

JKrolRU
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby JKrolRU » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:03 pm

The reasons why i never spoke to anybody on test day...

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dowu
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby dowu » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:05 pm

Uh what u just quoted was a contradiction in that they will confiscate and they will not

Seems fishy

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midwest17
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby midwest17 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:08 pm

dowu wrote:Uh what u just quoted was a contradiction in that they will confiscate and they will not

Seems fishy


Sounds like they advise proctors not to hold things for people while they take the exam. Holding =/= confiscating, I assume.

Also, lol @ LSAC telling people that they can't bring their pay phones into the exam.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby ScottRiqui » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:10 pm

dowu wrote:Uh what u just quoted was a contradiction in that they will confiscate and they will not

Seems fishy


The part about "Test supervisors and their staff are advised NOT to hold such items" isn't telling them not to confiscate contraband items - it's telling them not to provide a "coat check"-type service for the test takers, where the proctors will watch over a pile of electronic and other personal shit while everyone takes the test.

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USAO-vet
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby USAO-vet » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:18 pm

LSAC informs you that your items are subject to confiscation if you bring them in. Proctor was perfectly within her rights.


How the hell do you get there from the info you posted? Nevertheless, no disclosure can give a test proctor the right to steal your property. It's theft, plain and simple.

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midwest17
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby midwest17 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:21 pm

USAO-vet wrote:
LSAC informs you that your items are subject to confiscation if you bring them in. Proctor was perfectly within her rights.


How the hell do you get there from the info you posted? Nevertheless, no disclosure can give a test proctor the right to steal your property. It's theft, plain and simple.


[citation needed]

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Wrong Marx
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby Wrong Marx » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:24 pm

OP's first mistake was violating the rules. The second mistake was telling someone he violated the rules. The third mistake was admitting to the proctor that he broke the rules. The fourth mistake was not offering the proctor $50 to forget about it. The fifth mistake was posting about his LSAT cheating in a public forum.

Allegra
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby Allegra » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:28 pm

It's theft, plain and simple.


He gave her the phone, so I am pretty sure that cannot be theft.

dosto
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby dosto » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:29 pm

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Last edited by dosto on Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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USAO-vet
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby USAO-vet » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:33 pm

Wrong Marx wrote:OP's first mistake was violating the rules. The second mistake was telling someone he violated the rules. The third mistake was admitting to the proctor that he broke the rules. The fourth mistake was not offering the proctor $50 to forget about it. The fifth mistake was posting about his LSAT cheating in a public forum.


Agree with much of this, but the sad reality is that this poor bastard didn't actually cheat or even attempt to cheat. Any one of us could have mistakenly walked into the test with a phone in our pocket. The stress of the LSAT make all of his mistakes afterward understandable.

OP - all of this can be explained to LSAC or, worst case scenario, the law schools you apply to. Mistakes happen. Unfortunately, overzealous test proctors, enjoying what's probably the only authority they've ever had in life, made this mistake into a much bigger deal than it actually is. Try to concentrate on getting your mind right for the Feb test and move on. In the big scheme of things, you'll look back on this and laugh someday.

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Wrong Marx
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby Wrong Marx » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:40 pm

USAO-vet wrote:
Wrong Marx wrote:OP's first mistake was violating the rules. The second mistake was telling someone he violated the rules. The third mistake was admitting to the proctor that he broke the rules. The fourth mistake was not offering the proctor $50 to forget about it. The fifth mistake was posting about his LSAT cheating in a public forum.


Agree with much of this, but the sad reality is that this poor bastard didn't actually cheat or even attempt to cheat. Any one of us could have mistakenly walked into the test with a phone in our pocket. The stress of the LSAT make all of his mistakes afterward understandable.


But his g-chat logs do suggest intent, and he could be charged with conspiring.

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midwest17
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby midwest17 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:42 pm

Wrong Marx wrote:
USAO-vet wrote:
Wrong Marx wrote:OP's first mistake was violating the rules. The second mistake was telling someone he violated the rules. The third mistake was admitting to the proctor that he broke the rules. The fourth mistake was not offering the proctor $50 to forget about it. The fifth mistake was posting about his LSAT cheating in a public forum.


Agree with much of this, but the sad reality is that this poor bastard didn't actually cheat or even attempt to cheat. Any one of us could have mistakenly walked into the test with a phone in our pocket. The stress of the LSAT make all of his mistakes afterward understandable.


But his g-chat logs do suggest intent, and he could be charged with conspiring.


Also, it doesn't matter if you actually cheat. Bringing your cell phone into the center is enough for your score to get canceled for violating the rules.

dosto
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby dosto » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:45 pm

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Last edited by dosto on Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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bombaysippin
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby bombaysippin » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:47 pm

USAO-vet wrote:
Wrong Marx wrote:OP's first mistake was violating the rules. The second mistake was telling someone he violated the rules. The third mistake was admitting to the proctor that he broke the rules. The fourth mistake was not offering the proctor $50 to forget about it. The fifth mistake was posting about his LSAT cheating in a public forum.


Agree with much of this, but the sad reality is that this poor bastard didn't actually cheat or even attempt to cheat. Any one of us could have mistakenly walked into the test with a phone in our pocket. The stress of the LSAT make all of his mistakes afterward understandable.

OP - all of this can be explained to LSAC or, worst case scenario, the law schools you apply to. Mistakes happen. Unfortunately, overzealous test proctors, enjoying what's probably the only authority they've ever had in life, made this mistake into a much bigger deal than it actually is. Try to concentrate on getting your mind right for the Feb test and move on. In the big scheme of things, you'll look back on this and laugh someday.


Bolded is assumed if we are all giving him the benefit of the doubt. The situation sucks, but like honestly how many people just flat out don't read the instructions and/or ignore them?

This test can determine the rest of your life, the stress should make you read/listen to the directions well enough that stuff like this doesn't happen. People know or at least should know it's a zero tolerance policy so takeaway point is: leave the phone at home, is that so effing hard?

So what happens in the future for a lawyer that is super stressed and makes an "understandable" mistake when someone else's future is on the line? It's all about following directions and unfortunately this guy didn't.

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USAO-vet
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby USAO-vet » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:51 pm

But his g-chat logs do suggest intent, and he could be charged with conspiring.


The OP was obviously joking with his friend (right, OP?!?!). Everyone knows that the Saturday test is a different test.


Also, it doesn't matter if you actually cheat. Bringing your cell phone into the center is enough for your score to get canceled for violating the rules.


Agreed. I'm taking for granted that his test will be canceled. I think there is a chance that he can explain himself to LSAC and they may not add the security violation to his report, though. If not, he can explain this to the law schools he applies to and it won't affect him much, especially if he kills the LSAT next time.

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USAO-vet
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby USAO-vet » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:56 pm

Bajam wrote:
USAO-vet wrote:
Wrong Marx wrote:OP's first mistake was violating the rules. The second mistake was telling someone he violated the rules. The third mistake was admitting to the proctor that he broke the rules. The fourth mistake was not offering the proctor $50 to forget about it. The fifth mistake was posting about his LSAT cheating in a public forum.


Agree with much of this, but the sad reality is that this poor bastard didn't actually cheat or even attempt to cheat. Any one of us could have mistakenly walked into the test with a phone in our pocket. The stress of the LSAT make all of his mistakes afterward understandable.

OP - all of this can be explained to LSAC or, worst case scenario, the law schools you apply to. Mistakes happen. Unfortunately, overzealous test proctors, enjoying what's probably the only authority they've ever had in life, made this mistake into a much bigger deal than it actually is. Try to concentrate on getting your mind right for the Feb test and move on. In the big scheme of things, you'll look back on this and laugh someday.


Bolded is assumed if we are all giving him the benefit of the doubt. The situation sucks, but like honestly how many people just flat out don't read the instructions and/or ignore them?

This test can determine the rest of your life, the stress should make you read/listen to the directions well enough that stuff like this doesn't happen. People know or at least should know it's a zero tolerance policy so takeaway point is: leave the phone at home, is that so effing hard?

So what happens in the future for a lawyer that is super stressed and makes an "understandable" mistake when someone else's future is on the line? It's all about following directions and unfortunately this guy didn't.



Man, aren't you empathetic. OP didn't forget to file an appeal in a death penalty case. He fucking brought a phone into the test center by mistake and when he realized it he made every effort to remedy the situation.

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Wrong Marx
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby Wrong Marx » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:58 pm

USAO-vet wrote:
But his g-chat logs do suggest intent, and he could be charged with conspiring.


The OP was obviously joking with his friend (right, OP?!?!). Everyone knows that the Saturday test is a different test.


Also, it doesn't matter if you actually cheat. Bringing your cell phone into the center is enough for your score to get canceled for violating the rules.


Agreed. I'm taking for granted that his test will be canceled. I think there is a chance that he can explain himself to LSAC and they may not add the security violation to his report, though. If not, he can explain this to the law schools he applies to and it won't affect him much, especially if he kills the LSAT next time.


If he writes such an addendum on his applications, I hope he will choose not to tell the whole story about hiding his phone in the bushes during the break and "jokingly" conspiring with his friend to cheat on the LSAT. Rather, he should stick to the provable, documented facts, emphasizing that it was a mistake that he has learned from.

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midwest17
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby midwest17 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:04 pm

USAO-vet wrote:
But his g-chat logs do suggest intent, and he could be charged with conspiring.


The OP was obviously joking with his friend (right, OP?!?!). Everyone knows that the Saturday test is a different test.


Also, it doesn't matter if you actually cheat. Bringing your cell phone into the center is enough for your score to get canceled for violating the rules.


Agreed. I'm taking for granted that his test will be canceled. I think there is a chance that he can explain himself to LSAC and they may not add the security violation to his report, though. If not, he can explain this to the law schools he applies to and it won't affect him much, especially if he kills the LSAT next time.


It's definitely going to be notated as a possession of electronic devices violation. I guess it's possible that LSAC could hit him even harder than that, though.

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bombaysippin
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby bombaysippin » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:05 pm

USAO-vet wrote:
Bajam wrote:
USAO-vet wrote:
Wrong Marx wrote:OP's first mistake was violating the rules. The second mistake was telling someone he violated the rules. The third mistake was admitting to the proctor that he broke the rules. The fourth mistake was not offering the proctor $50 to forget about it. The fifth mistake was posting about his LSAT cheating in a public forum.


Agree with much of this, but the sad reality is that this poor bastard didn't actually cheat or even attempt to cheat. Any one of us could have mistakenly walked into the test with a phone in our pocket. The stress of the LSAT make all of his mistakes afterward understandable.

OP - all of this can be explained to LSAC or, worst case scenario, the law schools you apply to. Mistakes happen. Unfortunately, overzealous test proctors, enjoying what's probably the only authority they've ever had in life, made this mistake into a much bigger deal than it actually is. Try to concentrate on getting your mind right for the Feb test and move on. In the big scheme of things, you'll look back on this and laugh someday.


Bolded is assumed if we are all giving him the benefit of the doubt. The situation sucks, but like honestly how many people just flat out don't read the instructions and/or ignore them?

This test can determine the rest of your life, the stress should make you read/listen to the directions well enough that stuff like this doesn't happen. People know or at least should know it's a zero tolerance policy so takeaway point is: leave the phone at home, is that so effing hard?

So what happens in the future for a lawyer that is super stressed and makes an "understandable" mistake when someone else's future is on the line? It's all about following directions and unfortunately this guy didn't.



Man, aren't you empathetic. OP didn't forget to file an appeal in a death penalty case. He fucking brought a phone into the test center by mistake and when he realized it he made every effort to remedy the situation.


Yet again that's if you're assuming everything he says is true. There's a bunch of these stories after every LSAT. Do you know how they could all be avoided? Reading/listening to directions.

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Wrong Marx
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby Wrong Marx » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:05 pm

USAO-vet wrote:
Bajam wrote:
USAO-vet wrote:
Wrong Marx wrote:OP's first mistake was violating the rules. The second mistake was telling someone he violated the rules. The third mistake was admitting to the proctor that he broke the rules. The fourth mistake was not offering the proctor $50 to forget about it. The fifth mistake was posting about his LSAT cheating in a public forum.


Agree with much of this, but the sad reality is that this poor bastard didn't actually cheat or even attempt to cheat. Any one of us could have mistakenly walked into the test with a phone in our pocket. The stress of the LSAT make all of his mistakes afterward understandable.

OP - all of this can be explained to LSAC or, worst case scenario, the law schools you apply to. Mistakes happen. Unfortunately, overzealous test proctors, enjoying what's probably the only authority they've ever had in life, made this mistake into a much bigger deal than it actually is. Try to concentrate on getting your mind right for the Feb test and move on. In the big scheme of things, you'll look back on this and laugh someday.


Bolded is assumed if we are all giving him the benefit of the doubt. The situation sucks, but like honestly how many people just flat out don't read the instructions and/or ignore them?

This test can determine the rest of your life, the stress should make you read/listen to the directions well enough that stuff like this doesn't happen. People know or at least should know it's a zero tolerance policy so takeaway point is: leave the phone at home, is that so effing hard?

So what happens in the future for a lawyer that is super stressed and makes an "understandable" mistake when someone else's future is on the line? It's all about following directions and unfortunately this guy didn't.



Man, aren't you empathetic. OP didn't forget to file an appeal in a death penalty case. He fucking brought a phone into the test center by mistake and when he realized it he made every effort to remedy the situation.


Sure, it could happen to anyone, right? But not everyone is going to hide their phone in the bushes. Some will just turn it in to the proctor and accept the consequences. How people handle this kind of situation speaks a lot about their character. Character still counts, doesn't it?
Last edited by Wrong Marx on Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.




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