Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

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rpupkin
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Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby rpupkin » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:55 pm

I took the LSAT on Saturday. Going into the test, I was very familiar with the rules. I knew that you could not bring a cell phone into the test center. And if I somehow had not known that rule when I walked into the room, I would've known it by the time the test started: the proctor reminded us about 10 times that we could not have cell phones.

I sincerely thought that I did not have my phone with me. I almost always put my phone in my pants pocket. But, for whatever reason (nerves?), I mindlessly put my phone in my jacket pocket while I was packing up my things in my car before hurrying over to the test center. When the proctor announced the "last chance" to turn in any phones, I checked my pants pockets but not my jacket pockets.

I took the first three sections of the test without incident. At the break, I walked outside. I put my hands in my jacket pocket (it was cold), and I realized that my phone had been in my pocket. I felt like an idiot. I didn't have time to make it back to my car, but I didn't want to bring the phone back in the test room with me, so I hid the phone in a bush about 50 feet from the building. When I was walking back, I saw a girl I know who was also taking the test. I don't know her well, but she's the girlfriend of a friend of mine. I told her about bringing the phone in with me and about how stupid I felt.

I went back inside and finished the second half of the test. When the proctor was collecting the tests, she told me that I had to stay behind. We waited for everyone to leave—it seemed like an eternity—and then she told me that another test taker had reported that I had used a cell phone during the first half of the test. I immediately told her what happened. She then asked me to show her where the phone was. I walked her over to the bush. I think it all looked very suspicious. She then confiscated the phone and told me that LSAC would investigate the incident.

I'm freaking out. I realized I screwed up, but I honestly did not cheat. By the way, I think the test went very well, and I really don't want to cancel my score. I'd appreciate any advice you have to offer.

ltrego
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby ltrego » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:02 pm

First: I have no advice.
Second: She took your phone?

Kevinlomax
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby Kevinlomax » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:43 pm

what evidence is there that you put the phone in the bush? Just the word of the girl?

i would deny deny deny and say that you put the phone in the bush before you signed into the LSAT.

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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby Kevinlomax » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:43 pm

unless the proctor actually saw you place the phone in the bush, you should be fine

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Tyr
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby Tyr » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:52 pm

Your friend's girlfriend told on you and then the proctor confiscated your phone? Strange. I'm all for following the rules, but your friend's girlfriend sounds like a major B.

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Jeffort
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby Jeffort » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:38 am

Kevinlomax wrote:unless the proctor actually saw you place the phone in the bush, you should be fine


That would have been a good defense before he confessed to the proctor that it was his. It became possession in the test center upon confession of ownership, accident/intent doesn't matter, he brought it in.
Last edited by Jeffort on Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:01 am, edited 3 times in total.

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rpupkin
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby rpupkin » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:38 am

Kevinlomax wrote:what evidence is there that you put the phone in the bush? Just the word of the girl?

The problem is that the proctor now has my word that I put the phone in the bush. When the protector confronted me, I told her the whole story.


i would deny deny deny and say that you put the phone in the bush before you signed into the LSAT.

I think it's too late for that strategy. As I said, I already told the proctor the truth, and she said that she was going to write everything up in a report. I think I would make things worse by changing my story now.

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Jeffort
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby Jeffort » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:45 am

Main thing you can really do now is re-state your innocent mistake explanation and pray for mercy from LSAC, changing your story would be disastrous. Doubt LSAC will care much but you never know, not all test center misconduct reports proctors submit end up as a misconduct mark on your CAS report that LSs see.

Your innocent mistake excuse sounds verifiable by the proctors account of what you said right then when questioned so you might have a chance of LSAC not elevating the report to a formal charge of actual cheating that goes on your record. There is a difference between violating a test center policy and being accused of actual cheating. Your worry is the cheating accusation.
Last edited by Jeffort on Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:16 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PepperJack
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby PepperJack » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:47 am

rpupkin wrote:
Kevinlomax wrote:what evidence is there that you put the phone in the bush? Just the word of the girl?

The problem is that the proctor now has my word that I put the phone in the bush. When the protector confronted me, I told her the whole story.


i would deny deny deny and say that you put the phone in the bush before you signed into the LSAT.

I think it's too late for that strategy. As I said, I already told the proctor the truth, and she said that she was going to write everything up in a report. I think I would make things worse by changing my story now.

Wait - all you did was bring the phone into the CENTER.

Dude, I doubt they're going to black letter. Center implies room or at most vicinity of the room. Some bushes on the physical property miles away??? Doubtful.

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rpupkin
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby rpupkin » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:50 am

Tyr wrote:Your friend's girlfriend told on you and then the proctor confiscated your phone? Strange. I'm all for following the rules, but your friend's girlfriend sounds like a major B.

Yeah, I was also surprised that she actually took my phone. When I protested that I needed my phone, she said something about how the proctors had to confiscate all electronic devices used for cheating. That seemed a bit much—I mean, it's not like I had someone feeding me answers through a hidden ear piece or something.

The proctor was overbearing from the get go. After she finished reading us the rules, she lectured us about how she's been doing this for years and about how she has caught many cheaters. She seemed smugly satisfied when she "caught" me.

As for my friend's girlfriend, I can't be sure she was the one who ratted me out. It's possible that someone else saw me put the phone in the bush. But it's hard not to suspect her. The guy she goes out with is part of my close group of friends, and none of us really like her. All of us guys were drinking last month right before Thanksgiving. A couple of the guys (while drunk) suggested that my friend break up with her. My friend didn't seem all that pleased with the advice. I now wonder if he told his girlfriend about that night. Perhaps she was trying to get back at me for being part of the group of friends that tried to convince her boyfriend to dump her (even though I wasn't one of the guys who was giving our friend a hard time about her).

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rpupkin
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby rpupkin » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:53 am

PepperJack wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Kevinlomax wrote:what evidence is there that you put the phone in the bush? Just the word of the girl?

The problem is that the proctor now has my word that I put the phone in the bush. When the protector confronted me, I told her the whole story.


i would deny deny deny and say that you put the phone in the bush before you signed into the LSAT.

I think it's too late for that strategy. As I said, I already told the proctor the truth, and she said that she was going to write everything up in a report. I think I would make things worse by changing my story now.

Wait - all you did was bring the phone into the CENTER.

Dude, I doubt they're going to black letter. Center implies room or at most vicinity of the room. Some bushes on the physical property miles away??? Doubtful.


No, I had the phone on me—in my jacket pocket—for the first three sections of the test. And the bushes weren't miles away from the testing room; they were just 50 to 100 feet away.

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PepperJack
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby PepperJack » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:55 am

Denying seems dumb, because it seems pretty easy to prove it's your phone. However, I fail to see how phone in bushes proves you brought it in the room vs. were running late, and dropped it in the bushes to avoid running back to your car. I do not condone lying.

Kevinlomax
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby Kevinlomax » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:59 am

PepperJack wrote:Denying seems dumb, because it seems pretty easy to prove it's your phone. However, I fail to see how phone in bushes proves you brought it in the room vs. were running late, and dropped it in the bushes to avoid running back to your car. I do not condone lying.



exactly. deny that you ever brought the phone inside. say that you realized you had it in your pocket before you walked into the test center and did not want to walk all the way back to your car, therefore you hid it in the bushes.

I think your only shot would be to claim that you were under extreme duress and had no idea what the lady was asking you and that you didnt mean to say it was put there over break but rather you meant to say it was put there before the test started

bottom line: you incriminated yourself by stating "yea i put it in the bushes during break"

Kevinlomax
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby Kevinlomax » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:00 am

you should have simply just said "NO, that dumb girl heard wrong I was telling her i put it in the bush before the test started", you would have been fine.

or just kept your mouth shut...

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rpupkin
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby rpupkin » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:03 am

PepperJack wrote:Denying seems dumb, because it seems pretty easy to prove it's your phone. However, I fail to see how phone in bushes proves you brought it in the room vs. were running late, and dropped it in the bushes to avoid running back to your car. I do not condone lying.

Again, I admitted bringing the phone in the room. When the proctor confronted me, I told her what I shared in the OP. I told her that I accidentally brought the phone in my jacket and didn't realize it was there, and I told her about putting the phone outside in the bush once I realized that I had it on me. She said that I should have told her about the phone right away instead of hiding it somewhere, and the fact that I didn't tell her about the phone immediately suggests that I'm not telling her other things and that it's therefore reasonable to assume I was cheating. Like I said, she was overbearing.

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Jeffort
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby Jeffort » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:13 am

I'm wondering what the legalities are concerning confiscation of the phone and searching it. Based on OPs account of what the proctor said, sounds like she probably initiated a full blown catch a cheater investigation. LSAC takes allegations of actual cheating very seriously and investigates when someone screams fire. OP, you are probably now under high suspicion/investigation by LSAC, they have possession of your cell phone and obviously want to search it for incriminating evidence to see if you were collaborating with others to somehow cheat on the test.

There are legalities involved with all this stuff, you may want to consult a lawyer to decide how to deal with this situation given that LSAC could be looking at you in a very bad way right now with a serious actual cheating allegation reported against you by an official proctor. That's about as good of a time to lawyer up as I can think of for dealing with important things about your future. If a proctor took my phone and told LSAC they thought I used it to cheat, which would involved collaboration with others, I'd be kinda wanting someone to defend me against suspicions and allegations of being part of a cheating ring and want to be really careful about what I say and how I deal with it since there are possibly very serious legal consequences. Real instances of stuff like this with cheating that has happened in the past involved serious investigations with actual law enforcement authorities in some cases.
When accused of a crime ---> get a good defense attorney right away.

PS: I hope none of your friends in your contacts list on your phone took the LSAT too, cuz if LSAC is allowed to search your phone, they'll probably get investigated for cheating too! Seriously, get a lawyer since based on the proctors allegation, LSAC probably isn't just going to take your word that you didn't use the phone to actually cheat without further investigation. You really should have someone to protect your rights and assert your innocence of actual cheating. Your situation is more than just having a phone on the premises, you have a proctor making a specific serious allegation against you about actual cheating.

ltrego
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby ltrego » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:49 am

In theory, wouldn't the phone show that it hadn't been used during the testing period? Wouldn't that be fairly good evidence that no cheating occurred?

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Clyde Frog
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby Clyde Frog » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:32 am

If it was my phone I would really be worried about them looking at my photo gallery.

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Nova
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby Nova » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:39 am

Clyde Frog wrote:If it was my phone I would really be worried about them looking at my photo gallery.

The public demands more Clyde Frog

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jas1503
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby jas1503 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:40 am

"and then she told me that another test taker had reported that I had used a cell phone during the first half of the test."

To do what! Text your grandparents?

Seems like a horrible thing to snitch on someone for...Unless there's some sort of app that scans your test, then produces answers.

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Nova
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby Nova » Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:41 am

jas1503 wrote:Seems like a horrible thing to snitch on someone for...

Seriously. What a bitch

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PDaddy
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby PDaddy » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:07 am

rpupkin wrote:
Kevinlomax wrote:what evidence is there that you put the phone in the bush? Just the word of the girl?

The problem is that the proctor now has my word that I put the phone in the bush. When the protector confronted me, I told her the whole story.


i would deny deny deny and say that you put the phone in the bush before you signed into the LSAT.

I think it's too late for that strategy. As I said, I already told the proctor the truth, and she said that she was going to write everything up in a report. I think I would make things worse by changing my story now.


Lawyer-up. You would be surprised at how effective they can be. Wrongful accusations of cheating could be defamatory and could cost you hundreds of thousands if dollars in earnings. Even a suggestion that you may have cheated would seem to rise to that level, because of the credibility schools assign to the LSAC's determinations.

You can get out of this. Get a lawyer who specializes in education law (yes they exist).

The best thing that can happen is that you blow a section or that your written "work" is so detailed that it precludes cheating with a phone. Your test itself might get you off...if you missed enough questions.

Also, contact you cell service carrier and get a log of all calls and texts from the test date. Give them to your attorney. The LSAC has no right to accuse you of cheating without proper evidence, and they shouldn't be allowed to report an "irregularity" if they aren't prepared to assert that you actually cheated. They need to choose a side and stick to it. Either they accuse you or they don't!
Last edited by PDaddy on Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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nothingtosee
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby nothingtosee » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:17 am

PDaddy wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Kevinlomax wrote:what evidence is there that you put the phone in the bush? Just the word of the girl?

The problem is that the proctor now has my word that I put the phone in the bush. When the protector confronted me, I told her the whole story.


i would deny deny deny and say that you put the phone in the bush before you signed into the LSAT.

I think it's too late for that strategy. As I said, I already told the proctor the truth, and she said that she was going to write everything up in a report. I think I would make things worse by changing my story now.


Lawyer-up. You would be surprised at how effective they can be. Wrongful accusations of cheating could be defamatory and could cost you hundreds of thousands if dollars in earnings. Even a suggestion that you may have cheated would seem to rise to that level, because of the credibility schools assign to the LSAC's determinations.

You can get out of this. Get a lawyer who specializes in education law (yes they exist).

The best thing that can happen is that you blow a section or that your "work" is so detailed that it precludes cheating with a phone. Your test itself might get you off...if you kissed enough questions.

Also, contact you cell service carrier and get a log of all calls and texts from the test date. Give them to your attorney. The LSAC has no right to accuse you of cheating without proper evidence, and they shouldn't be allowed to report an "irregularity" if they aren't prepared to assert that you actually cheated. They need to choose a side and stick to it. Either they accuse you or they don't!


:shock:

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PDaddy
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby PDaddy » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:28 am

I don't mean "blow" a section completely...just enough questions (say -4 or -5) that you look like you wouldn't have cheated, especially if they are of varying degrees of difficulty.

And by "work" I mean your written work...

Cheaters would theoretically eschew - to some degree - the note-taking non-cheaters use, such as games diagrams, formal logic chains in LR, brackets, circles, asterisks, etc. in RC.

If your written work looks good, no texts and calls were exchanged at test time and you missed questions in a way that shows you wrestling a bit with certain questions it all points to your innocence.

On the flip, if your phone records show usage during the test or break, good luck bagging groceries.

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Yazzzay
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Re: Another LSAT "Cheating" Story

Postby Yazzzay » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:45 am

Nova wrote:
jas1503 wrote:Seems like a horrible thing to snitch on someone for...

Seriously. What a bitch



100% this. Noone else has said it but have you talked to her and asked if she did it? I seriously could never even look at her again. That sucks, man. I checked my jacket and pants pocket about a hundred times freaking out that was going to happen to me.

Also if they confiscated your phone and actually go through it thoroughly (who knows how in depth) maybe they won't find any proof of cheating and it won't be such a big deal. More importantly I still don't know how you could even use your phone to cheat so what the hell.




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