Is there even a point in cancelling a score now?

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jcccc
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Is there even a point in cancelling a score now?

Postby jcccc » Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:42 pm

Since most schools generally only take the highest score now, is cancelling even worth it?

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bombaysippin
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Re: Is there even a point in cancelling a score now?

Postby bombaysippin » Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:45 pm

Nope.

KDLMaj
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Re: Is there even a point in cancelling a score now?

Postby KDLMaj » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:52 am

YES. Jesus, YES.

First off- if you go into a test and KNOW it's going to be a bad score, you're fooling yourself if you think there's no consequence to having that score on your record. They still *SEE* the lower score. And a lot of questions come up about the maturity of your judgement when you have a low score there. Did you take the test before you were ready? Why? Were you sick? Why did you take the test if you knew it wouldn't be your best? Did something terrible happen in the middle of the test? Why didn't you cancel?

If they're looking at two applicants:

142, 158
158

Which one do you think they're most likely to take? Everyone loves to say "The one who showed tenacity and took it again!", but honestly that's not how they're likely to look at it. And you'll be forced to explain that 142. As mentioned above, there aren't many good explanations for that score. That 142 shows them that you may actually be a 142 kind of student. At least with a cancelation, for all they know it would've been a 158. And there are far better explanations for cancelations than bad scores.

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Jeffort
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Re: Is there even a point in cancelling a score now?

Postby Jeffort » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:23 am

KDLMaj wrote:YES. Jesus, YES.

First off- if you go into a test and KNOW it's going to be a bad score, you're fooling yourself if you think there's no consequence to having that score on your record. They still *SEE* the lower score. And a lot of questions come up about the maturity of your judgement when you have a low score there. Did you take the test before you were ready? Why? Were you sick? Why did you take the test if you knew it wouldn't be your best? Did something terrible happen in the middle of the test? Why didn't you cancel?

If they're looking at two applicants:

142, 158
158

Which one do you think they're most likely to take? Everyone loves to say "The one who showed tenacity and took it again!", but honestly that's not how they're likely to look at it. And you'll be forced to explain that 142. As mentioned above, there aren't many good explanations for that score. That 142 shows them that you may actually be a 142 kind of student. At least with a cancelation, for all they know it would've been a 158. And there are far better explanations for cancelations than bad scores.


That conventional wisdom is no longer relevant in the current climate due to market realities since it presumes oversupply of qualified applicants with desired LSAT scores for limited seats such that a school in your hypothetical situation couldn't/wouldn't admit them both due to getting more qualified applicants with desired numbers than they can admit.

Times have radically changed in the last four years.

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2013/12/17/fir ... 77-levels/

Schools no longer have the luxury of cherry picking from large groups of equally qualified applicants where they would even have a reason to want to nit pick to decide which of the two is a 'better' 158 and engage in speculation to cast doubt on one of the 158s. The LSAT/GPA stats for admitted students (25%-median-75% #s for each) are falling at almost every single ABA LS from the top to the bottom. Schools are in admissions stats/ranking protection mode to keep their 25%-median-75% LSAT #s from dropping again next cycle, which means they only care about the highest LSAT on record as long as it fits in with their desired class profile stats range.

The overall question of the OP needs to be qualified though. If you think you royally underperformed your established PT range or target/needed score by a huge margin that would result in a seriously substandard score compared to the range for schools you'll apply to, cancel for sure since no good can come from the score. However, if you are just worried about having hit highest of your true ability level/range, canceling is dumb.

Talking about 142 vs 158 is clearly an extreme situation where it would be dumb to not have canceled, I doubt anyone is talking about extreme situations like that. I think OP means in situations where you know it didn't go the best but wasn't a total --brain fell out/screwed the pooch-- disaster.
Last edited by Jeffort on Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Clearly
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Re: Is there even a point in cancelling a score now?

Postby Clearly » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:34 am

KDLMaj wrote:YES. Jesus, YES.

First off- if you go into a test and KNOW it's going to be a bad score, you're fooling yourself if you think there's no consequence to having that score on your record. They still *SEE* the lower score. And a lot of questions come up about the maturity of your judgement when you have a low score there. Did you take the test before you were ready? Why? Were you sick? Why did you take the test if you knew it wouldn't be your best? Did something terrible happen in the middle of the test? Why didn't you cancel?

If they're looking at two applicants:

142, 158
158

Which one do you think they're most likely to take? Everyone loves to say "The one who showed tenacity and took it again!", but honestly that's not how they're likely to look at it. And you'll be forced to explain that 142. As mentioned above, there aren't many good explanations for that score. That 142 shows them that you may actually be a 142 kind of student. At least with a cancelation, for all they know it would've been a 158. And there are far better explanations for cancelations than bad scores.

The answer to your hypo, is the one with better softs or GPA.
Your reasoning simply isn't whats happening.

KDLMaj
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Re: Is there even a point in cancelling a score now?

Postby KDLMaj » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:20 am

Believe me, I am well aware of the admissions trends lately. More so than most people here. But it's dangerous to take the fact that things are getting easier and interpret it as the old rules are gone. Lower tier schools have always dealt with the LSAT differently, but top tier schools still maintain their LSAT ranges. The just admit more people now. What people seem to miss is that most top schools aren't only taking the top score
Many outright say they are averaging. And others are overall non committal (hi Harvard).

Unfortunately you have way too much faith in people. My 142, 158 example is exactly what's going on with people. I can't tell you how many students have said to me: "I know I'm not going to get the score I want, but I studied all this time and want to take it anyway. I will retake it after." Many of them do it because they don't want to explain to the people in their lives that despite all of their hard work, they aren't ready yet. Others do it out of some misguided hope that they will magically jump up ten points on test day. And others do it because some well intentioned, but misguided, strangers on an internet forum told them they can keep retaking the exam as many times as they want and schools will ignore three bad scores and focus on their one okay score. (Which tier one schools aren't likely to do, though lower tiers may be more amenable to).

Telling someone that there is no reason to cancel a score is bad advice. That doesn't mean every situation merits a cancelation. But a cancelation on a record is usually easier to explain then a very low score.

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fnma2jd
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Re: Is there even a point in cancelling a score now?

Postby fnma2jd » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:48 am

This is pure speculation based on my application of economics and the free market system so take it with a grain of salt.

I don't think that law schools(outside of HYSCC) really take that "best candidate for the position" approach as much as they say they do. I feel like declining applications and the rankings system have created a market for JD applicants where they consider how it will affect their numbers.

All things equal, except one student taking twice and resulting in the same score, I really do think they treat it the same. Perception is reality, and the perception to the outside world is the student that you admited got a good LSAT score.

KDLMaj
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Re: Is there even a point in cancelling a score now?

Postby KDLMaj » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:59 am

fnma2jd wrote:This is pure speculation based on my application of economics and the free market system so take it with a grain of salt.

I don't think that law schools(outside of HYSCC) really take that "best candidate for the position" approach as much as they say they do. I feel like declining applications and the rankings system have created a market for JD applicants where they consider how it will affect their numbers.y

All things equal, except one student taking twice and resulting in the same score, I really do think they treat it the same. Perception is reality, and the perception to the outside world is the student that you admited got a good LSAT score.


For schools outside of the top, you are right. Of course, the big not-so-secret is that's what everyone's always been doing. The LSAT has the highest correlation with first year las school grades of any piece of your application. But it's not actually a very high correlation ( something like .25 if I remember correctly). The reason why it turned into 60% of the admissions decision for many schools was because of the value of school ranking systems. (And it was easy to turn into quotas for admissions departments)

Having said that, top schools still have choices. And most applicants still have reach schools who already have reasons to pass them up without adding a lower score to their record.




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