3x taker, no fresh PTs. any reason to think Dec will be diff

staples88
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3x taker, no fresh PTs. any reason to think Dec will be diff

Postby staples88 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:15 pm

Oct, misread a rule on the in/out game. cost me about 4/5 in LG.

ended up with high 160s.

at this point I've already taken all the PTs twice. the first time around when all the PTs were fresh, my band was 170-174. the 2nd time around they were all high 170s, but they weren't fresh. Dec isn't going to be any easier than Oct.

I remember one poster went from 2 tests in the high 160s to a mid170s score. without the rule misread, I would've been in the 170-174 range.

not doubting myself, but is the 16x/16x->17x scorer rare, so that it technically could be done but the odds are against you? i.e., most people improve because they increase the amount of effort put into their studying, but if I've already maxed out on effort, is there a good reason to think I'll stay within my scoreband (+/- 3)?

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snagglepuss
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Re: 3x taker, no fresh PTs. any reason to think Dec will be diff

Postby snagglepuss » Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:31 pm

You said yourself that you misread a rule. This time don't do that and you'll improve. Simple as that.
Don't build up the 16X/17X difference, you need to think of every point increase the same: simply as one or two more questions right. I really don't believe that there is any meaningful difference in LSAT knowledge between say a 169 and a 171. I bet a lot of people are in something like a 165-172 score band when it comes to preparation and skills; the difference comes down to test day execution. Let yourself be more confident and you'll have no problem scoring in your PT range. Godspeed.

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Jeffort
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Re: 3x taker, no fresh PTs. any reason to think Dec will be diff

Postby Jeffort » Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:09 pm

Using generalized trends about what is typically true of test takers as a group to make predictions about yourself individually is flawed since you have very specific information about your situation that is much more relevant for evaluating your potential test day score range than general trends among groups of test takers.

You made a simple yet costly careless mistake that cost you a 170s range score. According to that and the other info you provided, it is not overall skill level that is holding you back from a test day 170s range score such that breaking into the 170s would be improbable. You've proven you have the underlying ability level to score 170+ as long as you don't make any seriously damaging careless mistakes. It would be silly to ignore evidence specific to your past performances when making probability predictions about test day score range. Just make sure to be extra careful not to make any serious careless mistakes and you should be fine.

staples88
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Re: 3x taker, no fresh PTs. any reason to think Dec will be diff

Postby staples88 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:11 pm

what about the pressure that naturally comes with being a 3x taker? This is your last chance, if you screw this up you're finished, etc.

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Jeffort
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Re: 3x taker, no fresh PTs. any reason to think Dec will be diff

Postby Jeffort » Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:21 pm

staples88 wrote:what about the pressure that naturally comes with being a 3x taker? This is your last chance, if you screw this up you're finished, etc.


That's about your mindset and ability to focus and function properly under pressure, not about your actual ability level to properly process the actual content of LSAT questions. Try not to think about the last part you said during test day since having conscious thoughts like that during the test can be paralyzing since it just adds extra unnecessary pressure to the test that can only serve to make you more nervous and prone to dumb mistakes cuz you are kinda mentally freaking out and/or letting yourself get distracted from the questions at hand you are supposed to be focused on solving.

Try not to let the pressure weigh on your mind and freak you out. Only focus mentally on the content of the questions and kill/ignore/disregard any thoughts that pop into your head that aren't related to solving the particular question in front of you whenever you have negative extraneous thoughts.

staples88
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Re: 3x taker, no fresh PTs. any reason to think Dec will be diff

Postby staples88 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:15 am

Jeffort wrote:
staples88 wrote:what about the pressure that naturally comes with being a 3x taker? This is your last chance, if you screw this up you're finished, etc.


That's about your mindset and ability to focus and function properly under pressure, not about your actual ability level to properly process the actual content of LSAT questions. Try not to think about the last part you said during test day since having conscious thoughts like that during the test can be paralyzing since it just adds extra unnecessary pressure to the test that can only serve to make you more nervous and prone to dumb mistakes cuz you are kinda mentally freaking out and/or letting yourself get distracted from the questions at hand you are supposed to be focused on solving.

Try not to let the pressure weigh on your mind and freak you out. Only focus mentally on the content of the questions and kill/ignore/disregard any thoughts that pop into your head that aren't related to solving the particular question in front of you whenever you have negative extraneous thoughts.


Ok I'll try to extinguish those thoughts, but is one instance of such a thought enough to break your concentration and reduce your success on a section? Or is it common to have distracting thoughts over the course of 35min, and extinguishing them is also a common thing test-takers would have to do to beat the test?

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Jeffort
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Re: 3x taker, no fresh PTs. any reason to think Dec will be diff

Postby Jeffort » Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:28 am

staples88 wrote:
Jeffort wrote:
staples88 wrote:what about the pressure that naturally comes with being a 3x taker? This is your last chance, if you screw this up you're finished, etc.


That's about your mindset and ability to focus and function properly under pressure, not about your actual ability level to properly process the actual content of LSAT questions. Try not to think about the last part you said during test day since having conscious thoughts like that during the test can be paralyzing since it just adds extra unnecessary pressure to the test that can only serve to make you more nervous and prone to dumb mistakes cuz you are kinda mentally freaking out and/or letting yourself get distracted from the questions at hand you are supposed to be focused on solving.

Try not to let the pressure weigh on your mind and freak you out. Only focus mentally on the content of the questions and kill/ignore/disregard any thoughts that pop into your head that aren't related to solving the particular question in front of you whenever you have negative extraneous thoughts.


Ok I'll try to extinguish those thoughts, but is one instance of such a thought enough to break your concentration and reduce your success on a section? Or is it common to have distracting thoughts over the course of 35min, and extinguishing them is also a common thing test-takers would have to do to beat the test?


One instance can be enough if you dwell on it, let it get in the way of your mental focus and let emotions take over in place of logical thinking (otherwise known as freaking out/going into a state of panic/anxiety). Just concentrate on the test questions and not extraneous thoughts. Unless you lack the ability to control your own thoughts and emotions you should be fine. If you have trouble with intruding thoughts taking over conscious control of your thought and decision making processes, you would already have a psychiatrist and some hard core medications to deal with thought disturbance issues.

When you get anxious, try some controlled deep breathing, it can help you to calm down and re-focus in literally seconds by just taking a few deep breaths that you consciously hold for a split second each. Try it!

PS: Your questions indicate that you are letting anxiety and fear drive your current thoughts and push them into the HORRIBLE land of WHAT IF questions and worries, STOP letting that happen! Obsessive 'What if' type thinking will just drive you bonkers since it's usually focused on nightmare scenarios. It's best to avoid letting your mind wander into that land at this stage in the game with test day soo close since those thoughts just cause extra stress and anxiety you don't need. Sounds like you need a stress relieving distraction of some sort.

staples88
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Re: 3x taker, no fresh PTs. any reason to think Dec will be diff

Postby staples88 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:46 am

yea I don't mean intruding thoughts like "here's a non-LSAT thought. can't do the LSAT anymore, better drop what I'm doing."

more like. ok on the Oct test I remember this happening. the days before I was dealing with some nonsense.

so on the Oct test, I remember thinking:

"ok question ##. dinosaurs ate plants...oh boy another dinosaurs LR question. oh yea some dumb thing happened last wednesday. that was total nonsense...wait why am I thinking about that...ok dinosaurs, craters, ok TCR is A.

so I don't let nonLSAT thoughts take over and incapacitate me for the rest of the section. but I do remember that a few of those thoughts creeped into my mind. weren't even about how important the test was. more like dumb things that happened the week before.

so I guess I was asking, does the very fact that these thoughts arise during a time-pressured test, even if I only think about them for a few secs, suggest that I lack the concentration necessary to score highly?

bp shinners
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Re: 3x taker, no fresh PTs. any reason to think Dec will be diff

Postby bp shinners » Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:19 pm

staples88 wrote:so I guess I was asking, does the very fact that these thoughts arise during a time-pressured test, even if I only think about them for a few secs, suggest that I lack the concentration necessary to score highly?


If you could only be inside my head when I'm taking the test...

In short, no. Those errant thoughts certainly aren't helping things, but they're not definitely going to result in you scoring lower than the 170s. You have to learn to deal with and minimize their influence/effects (I do it by concentrating on process).

Also, you're putting so much of a focus on elements of the test not related to logic preventing you from getting a top score - the more you dwell on them now, the more likely they are to cripple you during the exam. When they come up, experience them, then let them go. Trying to fight them just makes them stick around longer.




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