Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

User avatar
crestor
Posts: 324
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:37 am

Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby crestor » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:32 pm

All my highest PTs came on December. I know all the various flaws with this argument but I just believe the December curve just makes it 180. People say that the curve is like this because this one is "allegedly" a little bit more difficult but I believe quite the opposite. I think December is essentially the least popular month out of the big 3 (October, June and December) and is more of a hail mary like February for potential applicants in the cycle. LSAC has to account for this.


Thoughts?

User avatar
aesth24
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:35 am

Re: Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby aesth24 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:35 pm

Those humanoids over at LSAC don't believe they have to account for anything for anyone. :cry:

User avatar
crestor
Posts: 324
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:37 am

Re: Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby crestor » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:44 pm

aesth24 wrote:Those humanoids over at LSAC don't believe they have to account for anything for anyone. :cry:



This is true. I took all of 60s and 50s. Pretty funny that 69 and 70 IMO were harder than any test in the 50s/60-68). this coupled with the fact that law school apps are down across the board and there are less test-takers every year. lsac just doesn't give a damn.

User avatar
wiz
Posts: 28888
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:25 pm

Re: Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby wiz » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:47 pm

crestor wrote:All my highest PTs came on December. I know all the various flaws with this argument but I just believe the December curve just makes it 180. People say that the curve is like this because this one is "allegedly" a little bit more difficult but I believe quite the opposite. I think December is essentially the least popular month out of the big 3 (October, June and December) and is more of a hail mary like February for potential applicants in the cycle. LSAC has to account for this.


Thoughts?


I agree. LSAC should review a high school/college transcript, IQ test, horoscope quiz, and SAT score for each candidate.

By adjusting for these testing profile discrepancies, LSAC could come up with a more suitable December scale to account for the inferior applicants.

User avatar
vicpin5190
Posts: 743
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:12 pm

Re: Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby vicpin5190 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:48 pm

I feel like December tends to have a higher margin of error to get an equivalent score which could (obviously not always) lead to gaining higher scores if you tend to be more consistent on the # of points off you get per test as opposed to going with the flow of the curve.

User avatar
crestor
Posts: 324
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:37 am

Re: Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby crestor » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:49 pm

vicpin5190 wrote:I feel like December tends to have a higher margin of error to get an equivalent score which could (obviously not always) lead to gaining higher scores if you tend to be more consistent on the # of points off you get per test as opposed to going with the flow of the curve.


I usually range from 78-84 with outliers so this might be it.

dosto
Posts: 784
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:50 am

Re: Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby dosto » Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:36 pm

.
Last edited by dosto on Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
iamgeorgebush
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:57 pm

Re: Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby iamgeorgebush » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:17 pm

No.

User avatar
paglababa
Posts: 888
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:34 pm

Re: Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby paglababa » Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:17 am

Wish i kept my old PTs to analyze this. I thought 70 was brutal. Usually missed 5-7 on the PTs but went -10 in Oct.

User avatar
wtrc
Posts: 2057
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 9:37 pm

Re: Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby wtrc » Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:21 am

62 was a December test bro, I think possibly the hardest test ever given, and the -14 didn't fully account for it.

User avatar
vicpin5190
Posts: 743
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:12 pm

Re: Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby vicpin5190 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:36 am

wtrc wrote:62 was a December test bro, I think possibly the hardest test ever given, and the -14 didn't fully account for it.


Weirdly enough this was the "game changer" PT for me or whatever, i.e. it's the one where I went from scoring 162-164 to 168-170s, yet I had scored about the same off on this PT as on my previous 2 PTs before going into 62.

Of course, I sometimes get things off that everyone else thought was easy so maybe I'm just weird.

But all in all, I don't think December's are any different from other PTs.

dosto
Posts: 784
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:50 am

Re: Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby dosto » Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:59 am

.
Last edited by dosto on Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
PDaddy
Posts: 2073
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:40 am

Re: Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby PDaddy » Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:13 am

crestor wrote:All my highest PTs came on December. I know all the various flaws with this argument but I just believe the December curve just makes it 180. People say that the curve is like this because this one is "allegedly" a little bit more difficult but I believe quite the opposite. I think December is essentially the least popular month out of the big 3 (October, June and December) and is more of a hail mary like February for potential applicants in the cycle. LSAC has to account for this. Thoughts?


A) Cites an unrepresentative sample size
B) Fails to consider, without justification, another possible cause for his high December scores
C) Accepts, without justification, the accuracy of the cited statistics
D) Appeals to authority (Ok, so OP doesn't claim to be a pychometrician or other "expert", but still...)
E) Employs (predominantly) circular reasoning (OP does offer one suspect piece of supportive evidence: "...'my' highest PTs...")

I know I am being a gunner here, but I couldn't resist. I just had to write out "all of the various flaws"...lol. It's actually a fun exercise.

amb89
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:47 pm

Re: Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby amb89 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:14 am

PDaddy wrote:
crestor wrote:All my highest PTs came on December. I know all the various flaws with this argument but I just believe the December curve just makes it 180. People say that the curve is like this because this one is "allegedly" a little bit more difficult but I believe quite the opposite. I think December is essentially the least popular month out of the big 3 (October, June and December) and is more of a hail mary like February for potential applicants in the cycle. LSAC has to account for this. Thoughts?


A) Cites an unrepresentative sample size
B) Fails to consider, without justification, another possible cause for his high December scores
C) Accepts, without justification, the accuracy of the cited statistics
D) Appeals to authority (Ok, so OP doesn't claim to be a pychometrician or other "expert", but still...)
E) Employs (predominantly) circular reasoning (OP does offer one suspect piece of supportive evidence: "...'my' highest PTs...")

I know I am being a gunner here, but I couldn't resist. I just had to write out "all of the various flaws"...lol. It's actually a fun exercise.



lmaoooo ive done the same thing with every situation in my life for the past 3 months

User avatar
Brettanomyces
Posts: 410
Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:08 am

Re: Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby Brettanomyces » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:20 am

crestor wrote:
aesth24 wrote:Those humanoids over at LSAC don't believe they have to account for anything for anyone. :cry:



This is true. I took all of 60s and 50s. Pretty funny that 69 and 70 IMO were harder than any test in the 50s/60-68). this coupled with the fact that law school apps are down across the board and there are less test-takers every year. lsac just doesn't give a damn.


I shit myself through most of the 60s, but found 70 to be relatively easy.

Chalk it up to divine intervention... or weird test-day energy. Plenty of anecdotal evidence pertaining to both.

User avatar
wealtheow
Posts: 1034
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:45 pm

Re: Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby wealtheow » Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:49 am

yeah no. i sat for 65. scored lower than i had on any PT everrr. obviously nerves played a part... but still, no. f dutch agriculture, those passages were a nightmare!

User avatar
vicpin5190
Posts: 743
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:12 pm

Re: Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby vicpin5190 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:54 am

For what it's worth, I've been using this site called zenof180 for further analysis of my PTing, and I took a gander at PT 68 (a December administration), and it looks like that test is HARD given that many of the LR's and LG's, far more than usual, are labeled "Hard" or "Very Hard" (there are scattered "Very Easy's" to counteract, but I've never seen that many hard questions all at once in an LR section). I believe this site is something like 7sage offers in terms of difficulty rating, but yeah, seeing that got me kind of nervous about how 71 will be...

Here's what I mean: http://www.zenof180.com/lsat/preptests/68/

User avatar
wealtheow
Posts: 1034
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:45 pm

Re: Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby wealtheow » Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:30 pm

vicpin5190 wrote:For what it's worth, I've been using this site called zenof180 for further analysis of my PTing, and I took a gander at PT 68 (a December administration), and it looks like that test is HARD given that many of the LR's and LG's, far more than usual, are labeled "Hard" or "Very Hard" (there are scattered "Very Easy's" to counteract, but I've never seen that many hard questions all at once in an LR section). I believe this site is something like 7sage offers in terms of difficulty rating, but yeah, seeing that got me kind of nervous about how 71 will be...

Here's what I mean: http://www.zenof180.com/lsat/preptests/68/


wow. not ONE medium difficulty? that's harrowing.

User avatar
vicpin5190
Posts: 743
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:12 pm

Re: Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby vicpin5190 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:37 pm

wealtheow wrote:
vicpin5190 wrote:For what it's worth, I've been using this site called zenof180 for further analysis of my PTing, and I took a gander at PT 68 (a December administration), and it looks like that test is HARD given that many of the LR's and LG's, far more than usual, are labeled "Hard" or "Very Hard" (there are scattered "Very Easy's" to counteract, but I've never seen that many hard questions all at once in an LR section). I believe this site is something like 7sage offers in terms of difficulty rating, but yeah, seeing that got me kind of nervous about how 71 will be...

Here's what I mean: http://www.zenof180.com/lsat/preptests/68/


wow. not ONE medium difficulty? that's harrowing.



unfortunately the site hasn't provided grading of PT 67 or 69, so there's no way to tell if this is the new norm or a tremendous outlier....

User avatar
koalacity
Posts: 1162
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:56 pm

Re: Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby koalacity » Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:41 pm

Trolling?

I found December tests to be, if anything, harder. More importantly, you do realize LSAC sets the curve before the administration, right? They do this precisely to account for the variance in test-taking population between administrations-i.e. so that if February takers are all a bunch of slackers, they don't unfairly benefit from a super-generous curve because none of them performed well.

User avatar
aboutmydaylight
Posts: 580
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:50 pm

Re: Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby aboutmydaylight » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:36 pm

Personally I've also found December to be my highest PT averages with June being my lowest. Granted its not a huge difference, but its there. For what its worth, I've always performed better/felt more comfortable with difficult tests + big curve instead of easier tests + small curves. Ever since undergrad I've felt that this gives people that are better prepared more of an opportunity to show it, and lessens the chance of lucking out of a good score since the margin of error is bigger.

User avatar
mellow
Posts: 296
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:07 pm

Re: Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby mellow » Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:11 pm

aboutmydaylight wrote:Personally I've also found December to be my highest PT averages with June being my lowest. Granted its not a huge difference, but its there. For what its worth, I've always performed better/felt more comfortable with difficult tests + big curve instead of easier tests + small curves. Ever since undergrad I've felt that this gives people that are better prepared more of an opportunity to show it, and lessens the chance of lucking out of a good score since the margin of error is bigger.

This was my experience as well. The number of questions I get wrong for each test remains fairly consistent no matter how easy or difficult they are, so the curve matters a lot to me. For me, regardless of the test's difficulty, there will always be a couple questions that I get stuck between two answer choices because I accidentally eliminated the correct one or just didn't like one more than the other.

For example, I got -5 on PT63 (June), PT 64 (October), and PT 65 (December) for a 174, 176, and a 177 respectively.

User avatar
steel_shot
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:35 pm

Re: Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby steel_shot » Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:38 pm

I used to think this, but I found that I generally prefer a more standard test with a standard curve than a more difficult test with a more generous curve. Especially during the actual thing, I'd rather go through standard shit than panic because of a really hard section (which seem to be more common in December tests).

I think that June tests tended to be my best scores.

User avatar
Jeffort
Posts: 1896
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:43 pm

Re: Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby Jeffort » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:08 pm

vicpin5190 wrote:
wealtheow wrote:
vicpin5190 wrote:For what it's worth, I've been using this site called zenof180 for further analysis of my PTing, and I took a gander at PT 68 (a December administration), and it looks like that test is HARD given that many of the LR's and LG's, far more than usual, are labeled "Hard" or "Very Hard" (there are scattered "Very Easy's" to counteract, but I've never seen that many hard questions all at once in an LR section). I believe this site is something like 7sage offers in terms of difficulty rating, but yeah, seeing that got me kind of nervous about how 71 will be...

Here's what I mean: http://www.zenof180.com/lsat/preptests/68/


wow. not ONE medium difficulty? that's harrowing.



unfortunately the site hasn't provided grading of PT 67 or 69, so there's no way to tell if this is the new norm or a tremendous outlier....


Those difficulty ratings are crappy and inaccurate. It has six of the first ten questions of an LR section labeled as HARD, with 'very hard' being the only higher rank, which is total nonsense, therefore the ratings are wrong and meaningless.

User avatar
vicpin5190
Posts: 743
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:12 pm

Re: Anyone else think December tests are easier than June/Octobe

Postby vicpin5190 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:30 pm

Jeffort wrote:
vicpin5190 wrote:
wealtheow wrote:
vicpin5190 wrote:For what it's worth, I've been using this site called zenof180 for further analysis of my PTing, and I took a gander at PT 68 (a December administration), and it looks like that test is HARD given that many of the LR's and LG's, far more than usual, are labeled "Hard" or "Very Hard" (there are scattered "Very Easy's" to counteract, but I've never seen that many hard questions all at once in an LR section). I believe this site is something like 7sage offers in terms of difficulty rating, but yeah, seeing that got me kind of nervous about how 71 will be...

Here's what I mean: http://www.zenof180.com/lsat/preptests/68/


wow. not ONE medium difficulty? that's harrowing.



unfortunately the site hasn't provided grading of PT 67 or 69, so there's no way to tell if this is the new norm or a tremendous outlier....


Those difficulty ratings are crappy and inaccurate. It has six of the first ten questions of an LR section labeled as HARD, with 'very hard' being the only higher rank, which is total nonsense, therefore the ratings are wrong and meaningless.



Though probably not perfect by any means, I've found them somewhat reliable. I do notice a bias towards rating the later 60s significantly harder, and idk how accurate or not that is, but I wouldn't say it's complete nonsense. It's just supplementary and I linked it to give some perspective, nothing more.




Return to “LSAT Prep and Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 34iplaw, Deardevil, Hi-So - ArshavinFan, mrgstephe, MSNbot Media, Zoidberg747 and 9 guests