LG speed improvement

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mynameis08
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LG speed improvement

Postby mynameis08 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:39 am

Hi everyone

I'm having problems with my speed for the LG section. I can only finish three games and sometimes because of me being so in a hurry, I answer those carelessly. They say I should do tons of practice. I've been doing some practice before and now that I am about to retake the LSAT (probably next year Feb) I want to make use of the remaining Preptests I have by practicing in a right way. I've learned the concepts I'm just having a problem with the time. Any tips to improve it? I mean I know I should practice a lot but should I do it by game type or just do it by section?

Any advice would be much appreciated

dosto
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Re: LG speed improvement

Postby dosto » Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:17 am

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mynameis08
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Re: LG speed improvement

Postby mynameis08 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:58 am

dosto5 wrote:First of all, if you're planning on applying next cycle, I don't really suggest taking February since it's an undisclosed test. Maybe better to hold off for June.

I'm not sure how proficient you are with games in general, but it's usually suggested to learn starting out by game type (as is usually the case with learning most things). Assuming you're familiar with setups and the basic game types, but are just a bit slow or not sharp enough, it's literally a matter of blunt repetition and practice. Photocopy the games (or have one copy and use a notepad, which is what I did) and keep doing them over and over (not the same game twice in a row, though). Also mix up the game types so you get better at switching gears and can recognize the setups more quickly. Not necessary to do it by section; I actually found it helpful to have to go from a mid-40's grouping game to a 60's sequencing (you never know what you'll get on test day). Again, the more games you have at your disposal, the more effective this will be.

You want to save PTs because you'll need the practice of doing brand new game sections as part of a test. However once you're done with a PT, add its games to your rotation of games to drill. The more you drill, the quicker you'll become at setting up your diagram and getting through the questions.


Hey thanks for this one. I am also considering June. But how did you start practicing for games? You did it by game type then went to mixing it? How long did you practice? And when did you start doing it as a whole section? Do you also time yourself 35 mins when you drill or you use 8 mins and 45 sec? I have a big problem with speed. Whenever I do it without the time, I can answer it accurately but who cares it isn't what is needed. Thanks again! :)

dosto
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Re: LG speed improvement

Postby dosto » Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:09 am

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mynameis08
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Re: LG speed improvement

Postby mynameis08 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:33 am

dosto5 wrote:
mynameis08 wrote:
Hey thanks for this one. I am also considering June. But how did you start practicing for games? You did it by game type then went to mixing it? How long did you practice? And when did you start doing it as a whole section? Do you also time yourself 35 mins when you drill or you use 8 mins and 45 sec? I have a big problem with speed. Whenever I do it without the time, I can answer it accurately but who cares it isn't what is needed. Thanks again! :)


I bought the LG bible and tossed it because it felt overly complicated. Learned mainly through 7Sage vids and started with just sequencing, then grouping and then mixing the two etc... My practice never stopped because I did constant drilling (I actually enjoy doing logic games heh) but I did stick to individual games and timed myself to 8:45 per game the first time through. Eventually I started doing full PTs, but this was already after a bit of drilling, so I didn't have any problems finishing under 35 minutes.

If your problem is speed, then you just need to drill. Part of it is probably nerves, but you're not quick enough to recognize patterns, make inferences, and know how to answer certain questions. Start building up a good inventory of games and set aside half an hour or so a day to just go through them. Eventually things will start clicking much faster. Watch 7sage videos if you don't already, because they do a great job of explaining the thought process you should be going through when going through the games.


this pretty much answered everything! How long did it take you to drill? I always have this problem where I panicked when time is almost up and I have only finished almost 3 games. What about with reading comp? Did you do the same? I also have a problem with it.

dosto
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Re: LG speed improvement

Postby dosto » Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:45 am

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mynameis08
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Re: LG speed improvement

Postby mynameis08 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:01 am

dosto5 wrote:
mynameis08 wrote:this pretty much answered everything! How long did it take you to drill? I always have this problem where I panicked when time is almost up and I have only finished almost 3 games. What about with reading comp? Did you do the same? I also have a problem with it.


Great; happy to help. You'll get them eventually, it just takes a bit of time. As far as drilling goes, I went overboard and did 30 mins to an hour of games a day during my prep up until the test; I don't think you need to do that much (I just did it because I had a longer commute/breaks at work) but the idea is to have games become basically second nature and part of your daily routine. That really is the key not only to getting fast, but to avoid the effects nerves will have on test day; you need to be automatic. Once you get quicker and are able to get through the games in good time, you'll stop panicking and get through them easily. You need to have a lot of games for this to be effective so you're not repeating them too often.

I'm pretty mediocre at reading comp so I'm not the best person to speak with about that. I do plan on practicing more and hopefully build good habits by December.



Thanks a lot! Sorry to ask a lot of questions but when you do drilling in a day do you usually do it with another type like let's say you do game drilling then after you do some LR drilling?

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Re: LG speed improvement

Postby dosto » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:06 am

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Re: LG speed improvement

Postby mynameis08 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:14 am

dosto5 wrote:
mynameis08 wrote:Thanks a lot! Sorry to ask a lot of questions but when you do drilling in a day do you usually do it with another type like let's say you do game drilling then after you do some LR drilling?


I never really did LR drilling (I actually just bought the packets for the first time) but I did LR/RC sections on the same days. I honestly just did games during my lunch breaks (as sad as that sounds) so it almost wasn't a part of my studying in that sense. Just something I did. Now that I think about it my prep was really unorganized.

Ultimately it's really a question of what works for you and what you feel like working on; you don't want to burn out on anything.


I really guess so. The challenge also for me is what type of study method or how I should do it this time. I bombed the lsat last October and I have no choice but to take it on February. Are you doing a retake this December? But really thanks a lot for the advice. I'm having a clear view of how I should do it the next couple of months.

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Clearly
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Re: LG speed improvement

Postby Clearly » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:17 am

Velocity LSAT for games.

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mynameis08
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Re: LG speed improvement

Postby mynameis08 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:21 am

Clearly wrote:Velocity LSAT for games.



I'm also considering that thanks. Do you have any tips for reading comp? I am also struggling with speed when it comes to reading comp

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Re: LG speed improvement

Postby iamgeorgebush » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:33 am

Drill by type. I had a similar problem (couldn't finish more than three games fore quite some time), and I found that drilling games by type (linear, grouping, etc.) was the thing that helped most.

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mynameis08
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Re: LG speed improvement

Postby mynameis08 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:56 am

iamgeorgebush wrote:Drill by type. I had a similar problem (couldn't finish more than three games fore quite some time), and I found that drilling games by type (linear, grouping, etc.) was the thing that helped most.



How long did you drill by game type in a day? And how many games in a day?


Thanks a lot!

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Re: LG speed improvement

Postby iamgeorgebush » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:30 am

As long as I could stand it. Probably 20 games or so...sometimes less, sometimes more. Depended on how much time I had to devote to studying on that particular day.

It should be noted that those aren't necessarily 20 games of the same type in a row, though. Might be 10 simple ordering and 10 complex ordering. I didn't really have much of a uniform approach to it. (That is, no uniform approach to how many/what type of games I did in a day...my approach to doing the actual games was another story.)

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Re: LG speed improvement

Postby barrelofmonkeys » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:54 am

I had some time issues with LGs as well (nearly fucked me over in October, actually), and since I don't see it mentioned here (alas, I only skimmed), I'll throw out the recommendation to RE-DO games.

Early in your studying, you might want to just do games for accuracy and not time. It's more important to understand the games than to do them in the time limit. You'll never be able to finish them perfectly in 8:45 if you can't finish them perfectly in 12:00.
Once you understand games, start working on the drilling/speed aspect. This is where re-doing games comes in. There's as much (if not more) value in doing a game a second or third time as there is the first time. Do them over and over again until the processes are rote (rule diagramming, inference finding, question answering). Games for the most part are all pretty similar, and re-doing them gets you faster and makes you better at understanding the structure.

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Re: LG speed improvement

Postby mynameis08 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:40 pm

barrelofmonkeys wrote:I had some time issues with LGs as well (nearly fucked me over in October, actually), and since I don't see it mentioned here (alas, I only skimmed), I'll throw out the recommendation to RE-DO games.

Early in your studying, you might want to just do games for accuracy and not time. It's more important to understand the games than to do them in the time limit. You'll never be able to finish them perfectly in 8:45 if you can't finish them perfectly in 12:00.
Once you understand games, start working on the drilling/speed aspect. This is where re-doing games comes in. There's as much (if not more) value in doing a game a second or third time as there is the first time. Do them over and over again until the processes are rote (rule diagramming, inference finding, question answering). Games for the most part are all pretty similar, and re-doing them gets you faster and makes you better at understanding the structure.



I like what you said. I was actually thinking twice before if I should redo the games and now I really am going to do it. Should I redo it until I can finish them perfectly with time? I'm thinking of this, taking new games in a day then the next day I'll repeat them all? How's that? Do you also have any suggestions on how to go fast on LR?

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Re: LG speed improvement

Postby mynameis08 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:42 pm

iamgeorgebush wrote:As long as I could stand it. Probably 20 games or so...sometimes less, sometimes more. Depended on how much time I had to devote to studying on that particular day.

It should be noted that those aren't necessarily 20 games of the same type in a row, though. Might be 10 simple ordering and 10 complex ordering. I didn't really have much of a uniform approach to it. (That is, no uniform approach to how many/what type of games I did in a day...my approach to doing the actual games was another story.)



Thanks did you repeat those games over and over? While you drill in a day, do you also drill some rc or LR together with that? Or you just devote your time with just LG?

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Re: LG speed improvement

Postby barrelofmonkeys » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:49 pm

mynameis08 wrote:
barrelofmonkeys wrote:I had some time issues with LGs as well (nearly fucked me over in October, actually), and since I don't see it mentioned here (alas, I only skimmed), I'll throw out the recommendation to RE-DO games.

Early in your studying, you might want to just do games for accuracy and not time. It's more important to understand the games than to do them in the time limit. You'll never be able to finish them perfectly in 8:45 if you can't finish them perfectly in 12:00.
Once you understand games, start working on the drilling/speed aspect. This is where re-doing games comes in. There's as much (if not more) value in doing a game a second or third time as there is the first time. Do them over and over again until the processes are rote (rule diagramming, inference finding, question answering). Games for the most part are all pretty similar, and re-doing them gets you faster and makes you better at understanding the structure.



I like what you said. I was actually thinking twice before if I should redo the games and now I really am going to do it. Should I redo it until I can finish them perfectly with time? I'm thinking of this, taking new games in a day then the next day I'll repeat them all? How's that? Do you also have any suggestions on how to go fast on LR?


I'd focus more on redoing the ones that gave you any trouble (indicated by missing questions or going over time limit). If you can do a game in under 8 minutes and get everything right, then put it in a "good" pile (your standard for this might get more rigorous the more you study--maybe you only put something in the "good" pile if you can finish it perfectly in 7 minutes, etc.). Put the rest in a "redo" pile. You can revisit the "redo" pile a day or two later. Sort again the same way. Do this until there are no games left in your redo pile. Then start a new chunk of games, but scaffold in a few of the ones you've already mastered.

As for the LR--I can't help you there. I've never had a problem when it comes to time on LR/RC, as I've had a long time to become a fast reader.

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Clearly
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Re: LG speed improvement

Postby Clearly » Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:30 pm

Btw, your problem likely isn't that you go to slow on games, it's that you work too inefficiently on them, continuing to practice inefficient techniques with repetition isn't going to make you any faster on new games.

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Re: LG speed improvement

Postby barrelofmonkeys » Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:33 pm

Clearly wrote:Btw, your problem likely isn't that you go to slow on games, it's that you work too inefficiently on them, continuing to practice inefficient techniques with repetition isn't going to make you any faster on new games.


Yep, this.
If you haven't already worked with some books, I'd recommend both the bible and MLSAT. MLSAT is a little friendlier, but both are great tools. I started with the Bible before my first take (-1 on LG), and then MLSAT between takes (-2 on LG..oops, I swear MLSAT didn't make me worse, I just messed up).

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Re: LG speed improvement

Postby SecondWind » Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:51 pm

Clearly wrote:Btw, your problem likely isn't that you go to slow on games, it's that you work too inefficiently on them, continuing to practice inefficient techniques with repetition isn't going to make you any faster on new games.


+1

IMO it's all about a good solid diagram and internalizing the rules. It may take 3 or 4 maybe even 5 min to set up a diagram, but I have found that once I have taken the time to set up a good one I 1) Only periodically need to write hypos down 2) End up knocking out most questions in 30 sec or less. A word of caution is that not writing down hypos can burn you really bad sometimes.

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Re: LG speed improvement

Postby iamgeorgebush » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:57 pm

mynameis08 wrote:
iamgeorgebush wrote:As long as I could stand it. Probably 20 games or so...sometimes less, sometimes more. Depended on how much time I had to devote to studying on that particular day.

It should be noted that those aren't necessarily 20 games of the same type in a row, though. Might be 10 simple ordering and 10 complex ordering. I didn't really have much of a uniform approach to it. (That is, no uniform approach to how many/what type of games I did in a day...my approach to doing the actual games was another story.)



Thanks did you repeat those games over and over? While you drill in a day, do you also drill some rc or LR together with that? Or you just devote your time with just LG?

I did repeat the games, although not consecutively. I usually gave a few weeks or months between doing any given game a second (or third, fourth, fifth sixth...) time.

If I was drilling for a day, I'd usually try to devote the day to just one subject, although sometimes I'd mix it up. What's important, I think, is that you devote good amount of time (say at least two hours) to one subject...if you wanna do two hours LR and two hours LG, that's ok, although IMO the time would be better spent on four hours of just one.

I also want to second some of the other posters who have emphasized the importance of doing the games efficiently. Make sure you're learning from your mistakes and figuring out how to do the games more quickly, not just repeating the games mindlessly. Repetition will help, but it must be accompanied by the right self-aware sort of attitude.
Last edited by iamgeorgebush on Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Jeffort
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Re: LG speed improvement

Postby Jeffort » Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:58 pm

OP, instead of focusing on trying to figure out the 'perfect' study plan, you should mainly be focusing on learning better question solving strategies. If you are writing out more than a few partial and/or more than two full hypos per game OVERALL to solve all the questions, you are solving questions the hard way and working harder than you need to.

Doing a lot of brute force trial and error hypo work to solve LG questions is very inefficient and time consuming, and probably why you are running out of time. Learn the efficient ways to solve questions without having to do much building hypos work. Every game has shortcut methods available to help easily solve most of the questions without having to do much hypo work. Most of this involves finding the ways to easily eliminate most incorrect answers with just basic information at hand without having to do a 'try it out' hypo for almost any ACs. It's much easier to solve games questions this way and requires much less work.




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