Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

MrBlueSky!
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby MrBlueSky! » Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:53 pm

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Last edited by MrBlueSky! on Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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wowhio
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby wowhio » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:23 pm

You may have heard the rumors about how it's "impossible" to raise your score by more than 10, maybe 15, points -- even with a prep course. Don't listen! They're just not true. The LSAT is a learned skill. You'll have to work hard, but if you do you can improve your diagnostic score very, very much, even in a short period of time.

I scored a 151 on a diagnostic and scored more than twenty five points on the real thing after six-weeks of hardcore studying. It's possible. Shoot for the moon.

boosane
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby boosane » Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:59 am

Thanks a lot for the advice, words of optimism and realism everyone. I attended my first prep class today and will let you guys know how much of an improvement I will have made after my 2nd PT.

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Clearly
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby Clearly » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:08 am

I jumped 26 from diagnostic, its possible, but hard.

boosane
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby boosane » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:38 am

Hey guys, I just wanted to give an update. I've been doing my RCs with Voyager's strategy and I've been averaging -0 to -2 ever since. Logic Games, I've been doing them by game type which is pretty helpful. For LRs, I've been getting -6 to -9 for each section.

Younger Abstention
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby Younger Abstention » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:48 am

Diagnostic was a 142. Ended up matriculating at a top ten school.

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SecondWind
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby SecondWind » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:20 am

It's doable. I'll be an example of that.

ballsoharduniversity
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby ballsoharduniversity » Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:08 pm

Got a 143 on my diagnostic as well and hit 170 on a PT. It's possible!

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toshiroh
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby toshiroh » Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:35 pm

I started with a 137, sir. It's beyond possible. You just need to put in the work, if you want to see improvement. Now diagram that conditional lol

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modernista
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby modernista » Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:28 pm

wowhio wrote:You may have heard the rumors about how it's "impossible" to raise your score by more than 10, maybe 15, points -- even with a prep course. Don't listen! They're just not true. The LSAT is a learned skill. You'll have to work hard, but if you do you can improve your diagnostic score very, very much, even in a short period of time.

I scored a 151 on a diagnostic and scored more than twenty five points on the real thing after six-weeks of hardcore studying. It's possible. Shoot for the moon.


How?? I've taken two cold diagnostics so far with varying degrees of failure. 150 and 145. Any advice?

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modernista
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby modernista » Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:29 pm

ballsoharduniversity wrote:Got a 143 on my diagnostic as well and hit 170 on a PT. It's possible!


Well done... hopefully, that will be me because I'm starting out with a 150 and 145.

lsatdream
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby lsatdream » Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:40 pm

modernista wrote:
wowhio wrote:You may have heard the rumors about how it's "impossible" to raise your score by more than 10, maybe 15, points -- even with a prep course. Don't listen! They're just not true. The LSAT is a learned skill. You'll have to work hard, but if you do you can improve your diagnostic score very, very much, even in a short period of time.

I scored a 151 on a diagnostic and scored more than twenty five points on the real thing after six-weeks of hardcore studying. It's possible. Shoot for the moon.


How?? I've taken two cold diagnostics so far with varying degrees of failure. 150 and 145. Any advice?


Modernista, It would probably help if you stop taking cold diagnostics... as well as feeling sorry for yourself. Buy the books recommended on this forum and get to work. Aim for June 14, which gives you plenty of time to go through every material and pts you can get your hands on.

I started at 143, so I was even further behind than you. It's been difficult especially with a full time job, but every single person has the potential to do well on this test. You just have to work at it.

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modernista
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby modernista » Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:03 pm

lsatdream wrote:
modernista wrote:
wowhio wrote:You may have heard the rumors about how it's "impossible" to raise your score by more than 10, maybe 15, points -- even with a prep course. Don't listen! They're just not true. The LSAT is a learned skill. You'll have to work hard, but if you do you can improve your diagnostic score very, very much, even in a short period of time.

I scored a 151 on a diagnostic and scored more than twenty five points on the real thing after six-weeks of hardcore studying. It's possible. Shoot for the moon.


How?? I've taken two cold diagnostics so far with varying degrees of failure. 150 and 145. Any advice?


Modernista, It would probably help if you stop taking cold diagnostics... as well as feeling sorry for yourself. Buy the books recommended on this forum and get to work. Aim for June 14, which gives you plenty of time to go through every material and pts you can get your hands on.

I started at 143, so I was even further behind than you. It's been difficult especially with a full time job, but every single person has the potential to do well on this test. You just have to work at it.


Thanks for the encouragement! I am in a similar situation with a full-time job. How many hours did you study a week and for how long?

bcjets212
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby bcjets212 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:23 am

I must agree with all those who said its possible. I got a 153 on my diag, but ended up with a 180 on my official. Since then, I've been teaching the test and have seen many of my students go up significantly, even after previous studying.


The best free advice I always give--and emphasize with all of my students--is to go over every question you take (whether you are right or wrong), unless you are 100% confident with the answer. To do this, if you finish a question and feel 100% confident (or damn close), circle that question. Yes, early on, this will not be many questions, but it will grow over time. When you finish the questions you are working on and grade them, you should go over every question you did not mark confident, as well as questions you marked confident but did not get right. Additionally, if you are not at least 90% accurate on your "confident" questions, you must go over those too.

The biggest key to this is that when you go over a question you should come up with an explanation as to why the right answer is right and why the wrong answers are wrong. While you should look at the right answer, you should NOT read an "explanation" book. Instead, trying to mentally "write" the explanation in your head. The only time you should consult outside resources is if you spend time on a question and cannot understand why the right answer is right and why the wrong answers are wrong (which will and is expected to happen, of course).

There are multiple goals to this process:
1. First, the process of finding the logical explanation to a question is the most important part to studying and improving on the LSAT. It is entirely more important to go over questions than to just take them (even if you are limited in time, I would "prefer" taking half the practice questions, but going over them in depth, as opposed to taking more questions, but not really going over them).
2. Second, by filtering out the confident questions, you will be saving time and efficiency in your studies. Now, you dont need to over focus on easy questions, but you will also make sure that you reinforce questions that you may have gotten right despite not really being confident when you selected it.
3. Third, you will start to develop a personal attention to your own level of confidence, which will help you in your timing and accuracy on your test, as you will now be less inclined to over-think questions you are extremely confident in.



Honestly, this process is something I do with all of my tests (even when I was studying for the Bar) and have told many other friends and other students I didnt teach, who have said it has helped them significantly. When you are diligent with this process, you WILL see improvement.

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iamgeorgebush
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby iamgeorgebush » Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:51 pm

OP: Yes. Consult the stickies.

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modernista
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby modernista » Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:29 pm

bcjets212 wrote:I must agree with all those who said its possible. I got a 153 on my diag, but ended up with a 180 on my official. Since then, I've been teaching the test and have seen many of my students go up significantly, even after previous studying.


The best free advice I always give--and emphasize with all of my students--is to go over every question you take (whether you are right or wrong), unless you are 100% confident with the answer. To do this, if you finish a question and feel 100% confident (or damn close), circle that question. Yes, early on, this will not be many questions, but it will grow over time. When you finish the questions you are working on and grade them, you should go over every question you did not mark confident, as well as questions you marked confident but did not get right. Additionally, if you are not at least 90% accurate on your "confident" questions, you must go over those too.

The biggest key to this is that when you go over a question you should come up with an explanation as to why the right answer is right and why the wrong answers are wrong. While you should look at the right answer, you should NOT read an "explanation" book. Instead, trying to mentally "write" the explanation in your head. The only time you should consult outside resources is if you spend time on a question and cannot understand why the right answer is right and why the wrong answers are wrong (which will and is expected to happen, of course).

There are multiple goals to this process:
1. First, the process of finding the logical explanation to a question is the most important part to studying and improving on the LSAT. It is entirely more important to go over questions than to just take them (even if you are limited in time, I would "prefer" taking half the practice questions, but going over them in depth, as opposed to taking more questions, but not really going over them).
2. Second, by filtering out the confident questions, you will be saving time and efficiency in your studies. Now, you dont need to over focus on easy questions, but you will also make sure that you reinforce questions that you may have gotten right despite not really being confident when you selected it.
3. Third, you will start to develop a personal attention to your own level of confidence, which will help you in your timing and accuracy on your test, as you will now be less inclined to over-think questions you are extremely confident in.



Honestly, this process is something I do with all of my tests (even when I was studying for the Bar) and have told many other friends and other students I didnt teach, who have said it has helped them significantly. When you are diligent with this process, you WILL see improvement.


After drilling the questions, I should go over them in detail. Would this pattern be helpful: drill on one day, go over them the next, rinse, wash, repeat?

bcjets212
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby bcjets212 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:06 pm

Given your time constraints, that could definitely work, but there is no "perfect" method. The only definite suggestion I would have is that you shouldn't take too long to go over them. You want to be able to remember not only the question, but what your thinking was when you selected that answer. Thus, when you see what the "right" answer is, regardless of whether you got it right, you can gauge the accuracy of your confidence level and compare your thought process before and after seeing the correct answer.

Generally, when it comes to drilling, I suggest doing about 2 sections worth of questions, then 5-10 minute break, then go over it (usually about 2 hours total for that). Once you get closer to test day, your "drilling" should be replaced with full practice exams, so you should go over each exam after you finish. End of the day, as I said, there is no "perfect" method and you have to find a plan that works for you with your personality and schedule.

10052014
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Postby 10052014 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:02 pm

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Last edited by 10052014 on Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

bcjets212
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby bcjets212 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:08 pm

jaylawyer09 wrote:
bcjets212 wrote:Given your time constraints, that could definitely work, but there is no "perfect" method. The only definite suggestion I would have is that you shouldn't take too long to go over them. You want to be able to remember not only the question, but what your thinking was when you selected that answer. Thus, when you see what the "right" answer is, regardless of whether you got it right, you can gauge the accuracy of your confidence level and compare your thought process before and after seeing the correct answer.

Generally, when it comes to drilling, I suggest doing about 2 sections worth of questions, then 5-10 minute break, then go over it (usually about 2 hours total for that). Once you get closer to test day, your "drilling" should be replaced with full practice exams, so you should go over each exam after you finish. End of the day, as I said, there is no "perfect" method and you have to find a plan that works for you with your personality and schedule.


Yep, getting started is the hardest.

But, after months of prep, I can tell you that you will get used to it and will actually enjoy it! :D 8)



There's a reason I'm doing this for a living :)

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crestor
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby crestor » Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:12 pm

Yes. Never give up.

10052014
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Postby 10052014 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:59 pm

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Last edited by 10052014 on Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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modernista
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby modernista » Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:12 pm

I just went through chapter 2 of the PS LG Bible. Man, the book is dry but you say I will start to enjoy the dryness of the material?

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Jeffort
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby Jeffort » Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:18 am

modernista wrote:I just went through chapter 2 of the PS LG Bible. Man, the book is dry but you say I will start to enjoy the dryness of the material?


You better, or at least figure out a way to force yourself to want to spend a lot of time with similar dry materials. You are only at the very beginning of a long road of constant LSAT saturation if you really want to follow the road to your highest possible score.

I'm serious about this so really think about the reality of what is REQUIRED to achieve your potential.

You HAVE to really want to and actually do carry forward spending HUNDREDS of hours concentrating and focusing hard on these exact dry types of materials for at least a few months most days of every week instead of many social and other life activities you normally spend your free time on. This means a lot of personal sacrifice and a lot of forcing yourself to spend hours doing stuff that requires a lot of effort, is very dry, often boring, frequently frustrating INSTEAD of doing your usual recreational stuff like watching a few TV shows in the evening or hanging with friends or playing on FB or listening to music or going out or whatever. Basically, you must actually give up a lot of your personal life to instead work hard on the LSAT almost every day of the week for at least a few months straight. It's much easier to say you will do everything you can to prep than to actually do it all in the long run since it requires a lot of discipline and dedication. Most people start LSAT prep with big hopes and claims of huge motivation but then lose steam and fizzle out within a few weeks because they don't get big point gains right away, get frustrated and kinda give up to a degree for whatever reasons, usually cuz they realized what 'getting 170+ is really hard' actually means in terms of amount of prep and how much work really is involved, the personal life sacrifices that must be made to have the time to devote to doing the work, and decided they weren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to put that much work into it.

If you are already struggling with motivation to push through the materials at this early point, that could be a very bad sign of your potential to carry through with the required things to get anywhere close to 170, or even 160+. There are many reasons why most people that take the LSAT don't achieve their potential, the biggest one is because they weren't motivated enough to force themselves through hundreds of hours of rigorous and at times tortuous prep, drilling and review to put in the hard work it actually takes to seriously improve. It is far from an easy or palatable experience, rather it is an acquired taste sprung from sheer determination to achieve a goal even when there are high personal investment costs with no guaranteed reward.

Like everyone said earlier in the thread, while possible, significantly improving your score into the 160s and especially to 170+ will take A LOT of hard work over a LONG period of time during most of which you will still be far short of your goal range, frustrated about that and really wondering whether you really can personally improve to high 160s+. Nothing comes easy with this test, improvements typically come slowly and incrementally spread over long periods of time. Only the strong survive and last long enough to push themselves far enough through the process to overcome all the score plateaus along the way to fully max out their score range potential.

I'm not implying anything about your motivation BTW, just more of a reality alert to make sure you don't get discouraged. You are at the very beginning of a long difficult road, so settle in for the ride and figure out ways to get yourself to enjoy the material, it is a really important part of the process. If you can get yourself to love the LSAT, you are Gold! since you have to spend hundreds of hours learning her annoying habits and putting up with her! lol

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modernista
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby modernista » Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:04 pm

Jeffort wrote:
modernista wrote:I just went through chapter 2 of the PS LG Bible. Man, the book is dry but you say I will start to enjoy the dryness of the material?


You better, or at least figure out a way to force yourself to want to spend a lot of time with similar dry materials. You are only at the very beginning of a long road of constant LSAT saturation if you really want to follow the road to your highest possible score.

I'm serious about this so really think about the reality of what is REQUIRED to achieve your potential.

You HAVE to really want to and actually do carry forward spending HUNDREDS of hours concentrating and focusing hard on these exact dry types of materials for at least a few months most days of every week instead of many social and other life activities you normally spend your free time on. This means a lot of personal sacrifice and a lot of forcing yourself to spend hours doing stuff that requires a lot of effort, is very dry, often boring, frequently frustrating INSTEAD of doing your usual recreational stuff like watching a few TV shows in the evening or hanging with friends or playing on FB or listening to music or going out or whatever. Basically, you must actually give up a lot of your personal life to instead work hard on the LSAT almost every day of the week for at least a few months straight. It's much easier to say you will do everything you can to prep than to actually do it all in the long run since it requires a lot of discipline and dedication. Most people start LSAT prep with big hopes and claims of huge motivation but then lose steam and fizzle out within a few weeks because they don't get big point gains right away, get frustrated and kinda give up to a degree for whatever reasons, usually cuz they realized what 'getting 170+ is really hard' actually means in terms of amount of prep and how much work really is involved, the personal life sacrifices that must be made to have the time to devote to doing the work, and decided they weren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to put that much work into it.

If you are already struggling with motivation to push through the materials at this early point, that could be a very bad sign of your potential to carry through with the required things to get anywhere close to 170, or even 160+. There are many reasons why most people that take the LSAT don't achieve their potential, the biggest one is because they weren't motivated enough to force themselves through hundreds of hours of rigorous and at times tortuous prep, drilling and review to put in the hard work it actually takes to seriously improve. It is far from an easy or palatable experience, rather it is an acquired taste sprung from sheer determination to achieve a goal even when there are high personal investment costs with no guaranteed reward.

Like everyone said earlier in the thread, while possible, significantly improving your score into the 160s and especially to 170+ will take A LOT of hard work over a LONG period of time during most of which you will still be far short of your goal range, frustrated about that and really wondering whether you really can personally improve to high 160s+. Nothing comes easy with this test, improvements typically come slowly and incrementally spread over long periods of time. Only the strong survive and last long enough to push themselves far enough through the process to overcome all the score plateaus along the way to fully max out their score range potential.

I'm not implying anything about your motivation BTW, just more of a reality alert to make sure you don't get discouraged. You are at the very beginning of a long difficult road, so settle in for the ride and figure out ways to get yourself to enjoy the material, it is a really important part of the process. If you can get yourself to love the LSAT, you are Gold! since you have to spend hundreds of hours learning her annoying habits and putting up with her! lol


You'd think reading dry material wouldn't be such a challenge with the time I spend reading Foreign Policy or the Economist but... no such luck. The only part I enjoy about doing this is the fact I can mark up my stuff in three different colors, underlining, write in the margins. However, as we can see, the marking my stuff up in three different colors, underlining, and writing in the margins didn't help in my diagnostic :cry:

10052014
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Postby 10052014 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:25 pm

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Last edited by 10052014 on Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.




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