Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

boosane
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Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby boosane » Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:22 pm

I've been self-studying since July for the October LSAT and I felt that I needed some more time and that perhaps studying on my own was not such a good idea. Thus, I enrolled into Powerscore Prep and took a diagnostic today for the first time. I ended up with a 143. For LR: 30/51, LG: 8/23, and 7/27 for RC. I'm planning to take the Dec. LSAT and was wondering if it's possible for me to get 160+ at this point?

Thanks a lot everyone.

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Typhoon24
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby Typhoon24 » Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:27 pm

It is possible.

ratiller
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby ratiller » Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:36 pm

it's going to take a lot of work, fixing your logic games will be the easiest way to get there and getting some reading comprehension practice

there are a couple articles stickied I think that would be extremely useful for you, it is possible but you are going to have to put some work in

magickware
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby magickware » Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:39 pm

Your 7/27 on RC is bad, in that it's generally agreed that it's very difficult to raise the RC score, as it is heavily dependent on your ability to just read and absorb information, which doesn't just improve in months. What's so hard with the RC for you?

I got only 5-6 right on the first LG I've ever done. Now I'd be surprised if I get anymore than 2 from idiocy wrong. LG is the most learnable of the sections, but it requires A LOT of work.

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052220151
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby 052220151 » Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:41 pm

My cold diagnostic was 147, I ended up with over 20 points more than that on the real thing. The test is super learnable. Go kill it dude.

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90convoy
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby 90convoy » Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:45 pm

7/27 is barely above the level of guessing. Guessing. You need to start reading asap because thats gonna be the biggest problem for you. Good luck though! If you put your mind to it you should be able to improve. Get all 3 Manhattan books, cambridge packets 1-40, and all PTs after 40 then hit it.

boosane
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby boosane » Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:57 pm

magickware wrote:Your 7/27 on RC is bad, in that it's generally agreed that it's very difficult to raise the RC score, as it is heavily dependent on your ability to just read and absorb information, which doesn't just improve in months. What's so hard with the RC for you?

I got only 5-6 right on the first LG I've ever done. Now I'd be surprised if I get anymore than 2 from idiocy wrong. LG is the most learnable of the sections, but it requires A LOT of work.

The reading part I can usually absorb what they are telling me, BUT when I look at the questions, there's always around 3-4 answers that seem correct. So I feel like I'm just randomly picking one of the answers that seem correct to me. In other words, there's never a question on the RC where I can single handedly pick out the correct answer, I always say "jeez those 3 answers seem like they can all be correct, so how the hell am I gonna pick the answer? Eeny, meeny, miny, moe?"

boosane
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby boosane » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:01 am

ratiller wrote:it's going to take a lot of work, fixing your logic games will be the easiest way to get there and getting some reading comprehension practice

there are a couple articles stickied I think that would be extremely useful for you, it is possible but you are going to have to put some work in

Thanks. Can you tell me where I can these articles?

boosane
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby boosane » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:02 am

90convoy wrote:7/27 is barely above the level of guessing. Guessing. You need to start reading asap because thats gonna be the biggest problem for you. Good luck though! If you put your mind to it you should be able to improve. Get all 3 Manhattan books, cambridge packets 1-40, and all PTs after 40 then hit it.


Thanks for the info. Is there a reason why I should go for PTs after 40? I've been practicing below 40s for the most part.

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thewaves
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby thewaves » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:05 am

You need to forget timing at this point. Go for accuracy. Sit and dig out the the answers from RC. It's not magic. They're in the passage. You need to train yourself to be able to spot them.

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Jeffort
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby Jeffort » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:08 am

boosane wrote:
magickware wrote:Your 7/27 on RC is bad, in that it's generally agreed that it's very difficult to raise the RC score, as it is heavily dependent on your ability to just read and absorb information, which doesn't just improve in months. What's so hard with the RC for you?

I got only 5-6 right on the first LG I've ever done. Now I'd be surprised if I get anymore than 2 from idiocy wrong. LG is the most learnable of the sections, but it requires A LOT of work.

The reading part I can usually absorb what they are telling me, BUT when I look at the questions, there's always around 3-4 answers that seem correct. So I feel like I'm just randomly picking one of the answers that seem correct to me. In other words, there's never a question on the RC where I can single handedly pick out the correct answer, I always say "jeez those 3 answers seem like they can all be correct, so how the hell am I gonna pick the answer? Eeny, meeny, miny, moe?"


This is a matter of great concern. Are you sure you are paying close attention to what each of the different question stems is specifically asking for? Because seeing 3-4 answers as good options for the question is a bad indication of your basic understanding of what is going on in terms of what the question stem is asking for. I suspect you are missing something simple cuz if you had major comprehension problems you wouldn't be able to get 30 of the LR questions correct.

Why specifically are you thinking several of the answer choices look good for certain questions?
Last edited by Jeffort on Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

magickware
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby magickware » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:10 am

boosane wrote:The reading part I can usually absorb what they are telling me, BUT when I look at the questions, there's always around 3-4 answers that seem correct. So I feel like I'm just randomly picking one of the answers that seem correct to me. In other words, there's never a question on the RC where I can single handedly pick out the correct answer, I always say "jeez those 3 answers seem like they can all be correct, so how the hell am I gonna pick the answer? Eeny, meeny, miny, moe?"


That means that you actually don't understand what you're reading.

The key is to understand that all RC question answers can be inferred as the question demands, or readily available in the text. Yes, it is frequently the case that 2 answers might be appealing, since otherwise the test wouldn't be much of a test. But you should always be able to eliminate 2-3 just off the bat. Inability to do this means that you're not digesting what you're reading well.

For the next couple of months, you need to take your sweet-ass time (for all three sections, mind you), getting used to understanding that the right answer is ALWAYS there, and it can ALWAYS be found. As such, you need to be spending a lot of time on each question figuring out where their support is at.

Basically, this means that you need to be able to point to the line that supports whichever answer choice you choose for RC questions, be able to logically arrive at the necessary answer for LR and LG.

Don't skimp on spending time. The time you spend on each individual question is far, far more important than the time you spend solving new questions.

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90convoy
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby 90convoy » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:13 am

boosane wrote:
90convoy wrote:7/27 is barely above the level of guessing. Guessing. You need to start reading asap because thats gonna be the biggest problem for you. Good luck though! If you put your mind to it you should be able to improve. Get all 3 Manhattan books, cambridge packets 1-40, and all PTs after 40 then hit it.


Thanks for the info. Is there a reason why I should go for PTs after 40? I've been practicing below 40s for the most part.



Most people like to do the most recent practice tests because they are going to be closest in resemblance to what you will be taking on test day. Tests from the early 90s aren't going to be as similar to the real thing as tests from the 2000s which is why people use older tests (cambridge packets) for drilling.

boosane
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby boosane » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:26 am

Jeffort wrote:
boosane wrote:
magickware wrote:Your 7/27 on RC is bad, in that it's generally agreed that it's very difficult to raise the RC score, as it is heavily dependent on your ability to just read and absorb information, which doesn't just improve in months. What's so hard with the RC for you?

I got only 5-6 right on the first LG I've ever done. Now I'd be surprised if I get anymore than 2 from idiocy wrong. LG is the most learnable of the sections, but it requires A LOT of work.

The reading part I can usually absorb what they are telling me, BUT when I look at the questions, there's always around 3-4 answers that seem correct. So I feel like I'm just randomly picking one of the answers that seem correct to me. In other words, there's never a question on the RC where I can single handedly pick out the correct answer, I always say "jeez those 3 answers seem like they can all be correct, so how the hell am I gonna pick the answer? Eeny, meeny, miny, moe?"


This is a matter of great concern. Are you sure you are paying close attention to what each of the different question stems is specifically asking for? Because seeing 3-4 answers as good options for the question is a bad indication of your basic understanding of what is going on in terms of what the question stem is asking for. I suspect you are missing something simple cuz if you had major comprehension problems you wouldn't be able to get 30 of the LR questions correct.

Why specifically are you thinking several of the answer choices look good for certain questions?

Here's one of the Questions I got wrong. The correct answer is C but I went with B.

Which one of the following most accurately expresses the main point of the passage?
B. The aesthetic value of a work of art is less dependent on the work’s visible characteristics than on certain intangible characteristics.
C. Forged artworks are artistically inferior to originals because artistic value depends in large part on originality of vision.

Those two answer choices just seem very similar to me and I just go with my gut instinct...but in hindsight I guess C is more concrete while B is not..on one of the passages I got 4/6 right so I guess it could also be dependent on the difficulty of the passage itself...I actually ran out of time for the last passage and had to guess which resulted in 6 wrong.

jpsmith222
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby jpsmith222 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:55 pm

There is absolutely hope for you. I started with a diagnostic of 143 also, which was the first test I took as a part of a Kaplan course beginning in March to prep for the June test. I was largely frustrated with my lack of progress through the Kaplan course, and ended up only raising my score to 148 on my best practice test by the end of the course. I felt completely defeated and knew I both had not done enough prep or prepped the right way. I abandoned Kaplan's strategies and ended up with a 152 on the June test. I still was not near where I wanted to be and I committed to preparing for the October test which I took yesterday. Through the use of the 3 Powerscore bibles, and Steve Schwarz's LSAT day by day study schedule, I improved my average practice test to about a 161 after 4 months, with my highest being a 164. I took the October test yesterday with more confidence than ever and I walked out of there feeling like it was my best test ever. It is definitely defeating starting with such a low diagnostic but there are many people out there with similiar situations. There is hope if you're willing to put the work in and grind it out. I would suggest this plan as it worked better than a traditional course for me, but see how you are scoring close to December and decide whether you think you are close enough, otherwise take it in February. This is my best advice but just keep your head up and know that it is possible. Good luck

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hephaestus
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby hephaestus » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:59 pm

deputydog wrote:My cold diagnostic was 147, I ended up with over 20 points more than that on the real thing. The test is super learnable. Go kill it dude.

Yes. The LSAT is a learnable test. You will obviously need to put in significant time and effort into studying, but you can definitely improve significantly with the correct approach.

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JWP1022
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby JWP1022 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:03 pm

If you genuinely put your all into it, yes, there is plenty of hope.

lsatdream
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby lsatdream » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:26 pm

Started off with a low diagnostic as well. Although I haven't taken a full pt, I've seen tremendous changes in my thought process. I've been getting -0, -1 on rc passages and it's because I've slowed down to read for structure instead. Same with Lr. I think if you took the time to slow down and train your brain to think in the LSAT way, you'll improve tremendously too. Best of luck to the both of us.

All Star
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby All Star » Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:27 pm

When I took my first cold diagnostic, I got a 138 with a -18 Logic Games, essentially getting only the first question correct in each game. I also started off very low in RC, and with about a -14.

Yesterday I took a PT and got a 158, so large gains are certainly possible. I'm looking to add another 10 points to my score to get into the lower- end of the T14 (Cornell, GULC, NW, ect) by December and apply this cycle. I'm not sure if that will happen, but I've come so far and I think that picking up on a few LR patterns will help me get there. Once on a PT I got a -9 LR combined and got a 160 on that PT, so I'm really about 6-8 points away.

For RC you will need to really focus on the structure of the passage and not getting caught up on dumb extra details. I used MLSAT RC and the LSAT trainer for this, it helped me go down from a -15 to a -6 to -8 that I'm getting now. I'm considering signing up for 7Sage or Velocity to get ready for December and get me over this last hurdle. My main improvement needs to be on LG timing, LR accuracy, and RC in general. Any suggestions? and sorry for the rant.

But to the OP large gains are certainly possible. You just need to work hard and consistently and another thing, you need to really focus on drilling by question type for both LR and LG, because you'll pick up on patterns very quickly and soon realize that all Logic Games are essentially the same.

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iamgeorgebush
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby iamgeorgebush » Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:49 pm

160+? Absolutely. That's only a 12 point gain; people make 12 point gains all the time. RC will be tough for you to raise, but it's doable with enough hard work.

Thethoughtcounts176
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby Thethoughtcounts176 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:51 pm

boosane wrote:
Jeffort wrote:
boosane wrote:
magickware wrote:Your 7/27 on RC is bad, in that it's generally agreed that it's very difficult to raise the RC score, as it is heavily dependent on your ability to just read and absorb information, which doesn't just improve in months. What's so hard with the RC for you?

I got only 5-6 right on the first LG I've ever done. Now I'd be surprised if I get anymore than 2 from idiocy wrong. LG is the most learnable of the sections, but it requires A LOT of work.

The reading part I can usually absorb what they are telling me, BUT when I look at the questions, there's always around 3-4 answers that seem correct. So I feel like I'm just randomly picking one of the answers that seem correct to me. In other words, there's never a question on the RC where I can single handedly pick out the correct answer, I always say "jeez those 3 answers seem like they can all be correct, so how the hell am I gonna pick the answer? Eeny, meeny, miny, moe?"


This is a matter of great concern. Are you sure you are paying close attention to what each of the different question stems is specifically asking for? Because seeing 3-4 answers as good options for the question is a bad indication of your basic understanding of what is going on in terms of what the question stem is asking for. I suspect you are missing something simple cuz if you had major comprehension problems you wouldn't be able to get 30 of the LR questions correct.

Why specifically are you thinking several of the answer choices look good for certain questions?

Here's one of the Questions I got wrong. The correct answer is C but I went with B.

Which one of the following most accurately expresses the main point of the passage?
B. The aesthetic value of a work of art is less dependent on the work’s visible characteristics than on certain intangible characteristics.
C. Forged artworks are artistically inferior to originals because artistic value depends in large part on originality of vision.

Those two answer choices just seem very similar to me and I just go with my gut instinct...but in hindsight I guess C is more concrete while B is not..on one of the passages I got 4/6 right so I guess it could also be dependent on the difficulty of the passage itself...I actually ran out of time for the last passage and had to guess which resulted in 6 wrong.



with B, aesthetic could deal with either tangible or intangible characteristics or both depending on the situation, so C makes more sense. There is no wiggle room with C whereas B is open to interpretation.

Thethoughtcounts176
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby Thethoughtcounts176 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:59 pm

You just need to spend more time analyzing the question and the specific wording of each answer as it relates to the passage. There are certain terms that make or break an answer or make one answer much better than another. You just need to focus less on what could be and what actually is.

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tofuspeedstar
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby tofuspeedstar » Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:05 pm

Yes. My diagnostic in July was high 140s *>145. My last pt before the October exam yesterday was low 170s *<175. It is doable but it depends on how much you put in.

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jordan15
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby jordan15 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:35 pm

How were you studying before you took the diagnostic? If you had been studying properly you should be able to know your weaknesses and hopefully how you should attempt to improve them. I agree with the others who say you should start going through entire sections untimed right now.

It seems unlikely that you will be able to get less than -5 on RC by December at this point, so here's a suggestion for when you do timed PTs and the actual LSAT: Go through the RC section and count how many questions each passage has. Don't do the one with the least amount of questions. Doing 3 sections in 35 minutes is much easier than doing 4 and you won't get points taken away for marking C for every answer for that last section, which will likely still give you at least one more correct answer.

Also, in general, being an active reader (circling, highlighting, underlining) is VERY important. After I started doing that, my score immediately dropped to half the amount of missed questions than I initially had.

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malleus discentium
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Re: Any hope with a 143 Diagnostic?

Postby malleus discentium » Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:12 pm

boosane wrote:I've been self-studying since July for the October LSAT and I felt that I needed some more time and that perhaps studying on my own was not such a good idea. Thus, I enrolled into Powerscore Prep and took a diagnostic today for the first time. I ended up with a 143. For LR: 30/51, LG: 8/23, and 7/27 for RC. I'm planning to take the Dec. LSAT and was wondering if it's possible for me to get 160+ at this point?

Thanks a lot everyone.


You got a 143 after studying 2+ months? Shooting for a 160+ in December is not overoptimistic, but it's close. But for the love of God do not study however you were studying before.




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