PT62 S2 Q4

bilbaosan
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Re: PT62 S2 Q4

Postby bilbaosan » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:08 pm

Jeffort wrote:LSAC disagrees with you and so do law schools, that is what is important.


Do you work for LSAC? I'm kinda puzzled whether you're providing the official opinion or speculating here.

If they didn't think English reading comprehension skills are important to be a successful law student, there wouldn't be the RC section such as it is included in the LSAT.


Yet again you keep distorting my arguments and attacking your distorted argument. Please see above what exactly I stated, it is very different from what you say here.

Your claim about having to learn/know, for example, medieval poetry, biology or painting vocabulary is wrong, you aren't expected you know those off the wall words unless you are talking about knowing what 'medieval' means. You don't have to know any weird specialized terminology about that or other off the wall subjects a passage could be about. They don't expect you to have prior knowledge of obscure terms specific to specialized topics.


There are many other problems with those except just knowing those specific words.

The overall vocabulary and the passage structure is different. People writing about poetry often use different words and phrases to state the same things than people writing about physics. Those slow down reading as they take more time to understand what exactly was said. It may be hard to understand for a native speaker, but after living in the US close to ten years living in the US, and working with legal documents most of that time I've had no idea what "protagonist" means. Mind you, LSAT doesn't allow dictionaries. Now we can argue back and forth whether it is considered a basic word or not (by whom, btw?), but you'll never convince me that knowing the meaning of this word is relevant in any way to assessing one's ability to success in law school. I don't understand why LSAC cannot have four legal RC issues instead of bringing in the irrelevant stuff.

Another problem, which is more relevant to LG/LR is the question wording which gets more and more often worded up in a way which makes you wonder what exactly the rule means. I assume it gets more problematic for native speakers as well, but the issue here is that while it gets, for example, 2x harder for you, it gets 20x harder for me.

Yeah, you have to understand the other words in the surrounding context to figure it out though, but those will be run of the mill basic level English vocab words. You had this same debate in a few other threads recently where BP Shinners and others pointed out that all the words and subjects you were complaining about not being familiar with didn't matter for solving the questions, but you choose to ignore them.


May I ask, have you learned another foreign language besides English? Somehow I feel like explaining that it is harder to swim in a windy sea than in a pool to someone who never seen a sea before and thinks you're being a whiner because after all the sea is just a really large pool and you just need to spend more time practicing in a pool.

This is why I discontinued this conversation as it was obvious to me we're looking on the issues differently and would never be able to convince each other. Hence we just "agree to disagree".

For the life of me I've still never been able to figure out what the heck they are talking about with art things like aesthetic value, extrinsic value, intrinsic value, existentialistic poetry, zizafrazzals, etc. You are just failing to realize that the questions don't require prior knowledge of any uncommon stuff and aren't testing you on their vocab meanings or understanding of those specialized concepts, unless they are defined in the passage!


Well, for the suff assumption questions you need to at least know synonyms for the "aesthetic value", I just screwed up one of the questions yesterday because of that.

If you are complaining about not knowing what a phrase such as "parodic use of color" means, join the club! What does that look like? How does one do that? I don't know! Nobody else knows what it means either, you aren't supposed to!


I know what it means, it means the person who wrote that passage had run out of crack and couldn't reach the dealer. So he tried LSD the first time and wrote this whole passage under the influence.

Your problem is that you just don't see or fail to recognize that testing your ability to quickly read, process and understand material about unfamiliar non law specific subjects is very much connected to your ability to succeed in law school. Believe me it is! You'll totally understand after your first week as a 1L! Law school doesn't teach things with spoon feeding methods typically used in pre-grad schooling. You are thrown right into a giant confusing, overwhelming mass of new subjects, vocabulary, idea, concepts, types of thinking, styles of writing, etc. right into the deep end head first with a huge stack of books and no instruction manual about what to do with it all.
They just dive right into plowing through cases day one and expect you to be able to make sense of super old cases from as far back as Old English law and talk intelligently about them in class.


Maybe it would be different, but as I said before I'm way beyond that on the L1 textbooks, none of those are giant, confusing or overwhelming. And those old cases actually make a lot of sense. There's no "parody use of color" there.
Last edited by bilbaosan on Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JWP1022
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Re: PT62 S2 Q4

Postby JWP1022 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:09 pm

Oh my god dude.

bilbaosan
Posts: 108
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Re: PT62 S2 Q4

Postby bilbaosan » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:20 pm

JWP1022 wrote:Oh my god dude.


With all due respect, does anyone force you to read this thread? I don't get it.

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crestor
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Re: PT62 S2 Q4

Postby crestor » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:30 pm

lol

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JWP1022
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Re: PT62 S2 Q4

Postby JWP1022 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:35 pm

bilbaosan wrote:
JWP1022 wrote:Oh my god dude.


With all due respect, does anyone force you to read this thread? I don't get it.


Of course not. And I don't disagree with you that the test is likely a much tougher ordeal for you than it might be for someone who grew up in the US/speaks English as their first language. My problem is that you're fighting a pointless, and maybe even counter-productive, battle. I don't know when you're taking the real test, but fighting the test tooth and nail certainly won't help you succeed on test day.

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neprep
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Re: PT62 S2 Q4

Postby neprep » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:16 pm

bilbaosan wrote:May I ask, have you learned another foreign language besides English? Somehow I feel like explaining that it is harder to swim in a windy sea [/b]than in a pool to someone who never seen a sea before and thinks you're being a whiner because after all the sea is just a really large pool and you just need to spend more time practicing in a pool.


So you think that your reading and comprehending standard academic English is analogous to a non-swimmer's experience of being thrown into a windy sea with no support.

Hmm...have you ever stopped to consider that the LSAT, by detecting and exploiting this inability of yours, is actually doing you a huge favor by keeping you out of the high-scoring range, and thus out of the top law schools where most if not all of your peers and professors will be very comfortable with the language? Can you honestly spend three years with people who can read a complex piece of text and have a mature, appreciative reaction different from wondering if the author ran out of her supply of narcotics? I think you'd actually hate doing that. Imagine your entire law school career as an extend version of this thread. Yikes!

But anyway, quips aside, I hope for your sake the tougher RC passages are about computer programming and there's nothing about remodernistic art. Good luck! :)

bilbaosan
Posts: 108
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Re: PT62 S2 Q4

Postby bilbaosan » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:12 pm

JWP1022 wrote:Of course not. And I don't disagree with you that the test is likely a much tougher ordeal for you than it might be for someone who grew up in the US/speaks English as their first language. My problem is that you're fighting a pointless, and maybe even counter-productive, battle.


Fighting? I'm not fighting anything, I just explain my opinion. If I decide to fight, you can be assured it won't happen in forums.

I don't know when you're taking the real test, but fighting the test tooth and nail certainly won't help you succeed on test day.


A lot of things I'm doing won't help me succeed on Sat. But who cares? It is not like my salary depends on it.

bilbaosan
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:58 pm

Re: PT62 S2 Q4

Postby bilbaosan » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:30 pm

neprep wrote:So you think that your reading and comprehending standard academic English is analogous to a non-swimmer's experience of being thrown into a windy sea with no support.


No, I think someone telling me having different topics written in completely different phraseology is basically the same English and does not pose extra unique challenges to non-native speakers is the same as someone who never swam in a sea telling me swimming in a sea is the same as in a pool.

Hmm...have you ever stopped to consider that the LSAT, by detecting and exploiting this inability of yours, is actually doing you a huge favor by keeping you out of the high-scoring range, and thus out of the top law schools where most if not all of your peers and professors will be very comfortable with the language?


LSAT isn't doing any service here since the only ABA school I'm considering is ranked something like #93. The rest I consider are not even ABA, and could care less about LSAT. Too bad I learned about them too late, I wouldn't even be here otherwise.

Can you honestly spend three years with people who can read a complex piece of text and have a mature, appreciative reaction different from wondering if the author ran out of her supply of narcotics?


Easily! If I don't have to read those texts myself, it is all fine with me. I'm actually sure there are people who enjoy those texts. After all, drugs are expensive, and the author obviously makes enough to have them provided.

But anyway, quips aside, I hope for your sake the tougher RC passages are about computer programming and there's nothing about remodernistic art. Good luck! :)


Thank you, but I'd like a little bit more:

- Have only one RC section (i.e. no exp) and have it the first section.

- Have the African American medieval ecclesiastical Romanticist art passage with only six questions the first passage, so it could be used for warming up before working on what real writers wrote. Especially if it is a comparative reading passage. Please also stuff all the analogy questions there.

Yeah and I'd also like to have the hybrid game with only five questions, and have the "equivalent rule" there, so I'd miss just four of them.

Hope I'm not asking for too much, but thank you in advance anyway :lol:

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neprep
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Re: PT62 S2 Q4

Postby neprep » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:36 pm

bilbaosan wrote:
neprep wrote:So you think that your reading and comprehending standard academic English is analogous to a non-swimmer's experience of being thrown into a windy sea with no support.


No, I think someone telling me having different topics written in completely different phraseology is basically the same English and does not pose extra unique challenges to non-native speakers is the same as someone who never swam in a sea telling me swimming in a sea is the same as in a pool.

Hmm...have you ever stopped to consider that the LSAT, by detecting and exploiting this inability of yours, is actually doing you a huge favor by keeping you out of the high-scoring range, and thus out of the top law schools where most if not all of your peers and professors will be very comfortable with the language?


LSAT isn't doing any service here since the only ABA school I'm considering is ranked something like #93. The rest I consider are not even ABA, and could care less about LSAT. Too bad I learned about them too late, I wouldn't even be here otherwise.

Can you honestly spend three years with people who can read a complex piece of text and have a mature, appreciative reaction different from wondering if the author ran out of her supply of narcotics?


Easily! If I don't have to read those texts myself, it is all fine with me. I'm actually sure there are people who enjoy those texts. After all, drugs are expensive, and the author obviously makes enough to have them provided.

But anyway, quips aside, I hope for your sake the tougher RC passages are about computer programming and there's nothing about remodernistic art. Good luck! :)


Thank you, but I'd like a little bit more:

- Have only one RC section (i.e. no exp) and have it the first section.

- Have the African American medieval ecclesiastical Romanticist art passage with only six questions the first passage, so it could be used for warming up before working on what real writers wrote. Especially if it is a comparative reading passage. Please also stuff all the analogy questions there.

Yeah and I'd also like to have the hybrid game with only five questions, and have the "equivalent rule" there, so I'd miss just four of them.

Hope I'm not asking for too much, but thank you in advance anyway :lol:


I'll see what I can do!

bilbaosan
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:58 pm

Re: PT62 S2 Q4

Postby bilbaosan » Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:06 pm

neprep wrote:I'll see what I can do!


And please no more than two parallel reasoning questions, thanks!!!




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