7Sage or LsatQA Test Grader?

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Pyromancer
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7Sage or LsatQA Test Grader?

Postby Pyromancer » Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:16 pm

Can anyone recommend one of these as opposed to the other? Or even another one that you've found that works better? I'm trying to keep track of all of my PT scores and also like the addition of the analysis provided into missed question types.

Cambridge LSAT
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Re: 7Sage or LsatQA Test Grader?

Postby Cambridge LSAT » Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:35 pm

If you're open to an offline grader, we have a free test tracking spreadsheet available on our site.

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jkhalfa
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Re: 7Sage or LsatQA Test Grader?

Postby jkhalfa » Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:50 pm

I compared them awhile ago and decided lsatqa was slightly better, though they are pretty damn close

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crestor
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Re: 7Sage or LsatQA Test Grader?

Postby crestor » Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:53 pm

7sage shits on lsatqa

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Dr.Zer0
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Re: 7Sage or LsatQA Test Grader?

Postby Dr.Zer0 » Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:12 pm

.
Last edited by Dr.Zer0 on Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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lawschool22
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Re: 7Sage or LsatQA Test Grader?

Postby lawschool22 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:12 am

7sage's blind review capabilities are what sold me on it's tracker. The ability to hone in on why you may have missed a question makes it a valuable resource. It's also pretty intuitive, and I found its analytics to be quite helpful. Of course they are very similar and it will come down to personal preference. I did not use LsatQA all that much, so I'm not sure what it's blind review capabilities are. But I would definitely rank that feature high on my list of "must haves", since blind review is so important.

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Re: 7Sage or LsatQA Test Grader?

Postby alan-7sage » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:11 pm

Alan from 7Sage here. I obviously have deeply biased love for our grader and think everyone should use it. Here's what I think is particularly good about our grader:

  • An interactive table of every LSAT question you have entered. Fully sortable and filterable, with links to explanations, difficulty ratings, and answer choice statistics.
  • Easy to use interface and layout. Try the keyboard entry for answer input - it is really fast!
  • Works great with 7Sage's Blind Review Method (thanks for pointing this out, lawschool22!)

We just updated our grader about an hour ago, adding reading comp passage type tags, an improved layout, and a whole slew of assorted improvements. It's still free to use, enjoy!

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Nonconsecutive
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Re: 7Sage or LsatQA Test Grader?

Postby Nonconsecutive » Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:26 pm

Dr.Zer0 wrote:Porqué no los dos?


This was my logic, I started off on LSATQA exclusively, but now I use them both. There a little quirks to each one that I enjoy, and the keyboard modes make inputting tests a breeze.

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7sage
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Re: 7Sage or LsatQA Test Grader?

Postby 7sage » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:18 pm

J.Y. from 7Sage here.

We updated our tracker and now you can analyze a specific range of tests. For example, if you only want to look at SA questions from post PT 50 (since the new ones are a bit different), you can do that.

You can also see what % of our users chose any particular incorrect answers to see how "trappy" that answer choice was.

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Re: 7Sage or LsatQA Test Grader?

Postby bilbaosan » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:44 pm

alan-7sage wrote:An interactive table of every LSAT question you have entered. Fully sortable and filterable, with links to explanations, difficulty ratings, and answer choice statistics.


LsatQA has it as well except the links to explanations. Could you please explain what is unique in 7sage tracker?

Easy to use interface and layout. Try the keyboard entry for answer input - it is really fast!


As an engineer I'm skeptical toward "easy to use" claims (easy to use for whom? grandmas? people targeting Yale?) but again could you highlight unique things, if any?
LsatQA also has keyboard entry.

Works great with 7Sage's Blind Review Method (thanks for pointing this out, lawschool22!)


Is blind method about "after scoring you can see the answers you got wrong, but you do not see the correct answers for those until you click on the section"? LsatQA has it.

We just updated our grader about an hour ago, adding reading comp passage type tags, an improved layout, and a whole slew of assorted improvements. It's still free to use, enjoy!


"Still free" is what kept me away from certain tracking services as there's a good chance one day you log in and ask for the payment of $19.99 to access your data which you didn't even have a chance to migrate.

At the same time, LsatQA has issues as well:

- It is slow and sometime busy. Sure it is not gmail and it doesn't make much difference whether grading takes 3s or 30s, but it would be nice to speed it up.
- It doesn't have an option to properly grade the incomplete tests (or just ignore them from global scoring at all)
- The per-question difficulty is calculated from all the users. If a question has difficulty 4 but only the people scoring 170+ answered it correctly, it is very different from the question which has difficulty 4 which was answered correctly by a random subset of people. The first case I wouldn't even bother to practice, but the second one I would. This information, however, is not provided so you'd have to estimate the real question difficulty manually, which takes time and leads to mistakes.

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crestor
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Re: 7Sage or LsatQA Test Grader?

Postby crestor » Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:43 am

Lol at post above, just lol.

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Re: 7Sage or LsatQA Test Grader?

Postby lawschool22 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:44 am

crestor wrote:Lol at post above, just lol.

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lawschool22
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Re: 7Sage or LsatQA Test Grader?

Postby lawschool22 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:57 am

bilbaosan wrote:
alan-7sage wrote:
Works great with 7Sage's Blind Review Method (thanks for pointing this out, lawschool22!)


Is blind method about "after scoring you can see the answers you got wrong, but you do not see the correct answers for those until you click on the section"? LsatQA has it.



No, that's not the blind method. That is not a true blind review, because you are reviewing the question after already knowing you got it wrong.

This: http://7sage.com/the-blind-review-how-to-correctly-prep-for-lsat-part-1/ is the method I am referring to. When taking the test you circle questions you are unsure of. Then before scoring the test, you go back and re-do those questions you were unsure of without time constraints. After this you enter your answers into 7Sage's scorer. It allows you to indicate which questions you circled on your test, and also input your second (blind review) answer into the scorer.

After this, 7Sage ranks your questions by priorty in four ways:
-"Very High", meaning you got it wrong and you did not circle it on your test - meaning you did not even know you were confused/wrong (worst kind of mistake).
-"High" - you circled it, but your blind review response was incorrect. Meaning you got it wrong even in an un-timed situation, so you really don't understand the question. "High" is also used when you got it correct on the test, but incorrect on your blind review - this also indicates you either got lucky on the test, or you don't fully understand the question and second guessed yourself on blind review.
-"Low" - you circled it, got it right on the test, and got it right on blind review. This means you do understand the question, but you should probably review once more to firm up your understanding (if you have time).
-"Very Low", meaning you did not circle and you got it right - you probably really do understand these questions well and these should be very low on your review priority.

[ETA:The only thing the above process doesn't catch (and honestly I'm not sure how you would catch it) are questions you didn't circle, really do not understand at all, but got lucky and got it right. I guess over time and with enough PTs some of these question types would end up showing up in the "Very High" category, since you only have a 20% chance of getting "lucky", so it probably isn't something to worry about.]

But you see, simply reviewing answers that you got wrong does not provide nearly the level of insight into why you got it wrong that the above method does. Also, reviewing only wrong answers causes you to not review answers you were unsure but still got right, and it doesn't allow you to pin down whether you are having understanding issues vs. a timing issue. The beauty of the 7Sage scorer is that it does the blind review analysis automatically, and provides this really useful 4-level priority ranking. If you follow the blind review method appropriately, I guarantee you will get a more fruitful review.

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Re: 7Sage or LsatQA Test Grader?

Postby arcanecircle » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:05 pm

I've used LSATQA for a long time, recently tried this site,Some things of note:

1 - Section grader. Can do individual sections with Q&A, seems 7Sage only does full preptests.
2 - Extensive section breakdown, 7Sage lacks this. In the "Sections" tab, Q&A will neatly fit analytics into the 3 sections LR/RC/LG, giving you a recent 5 section analysis alongside over all. Drop down menu does pretty much everything I saw on the 7sage site as well (Percentage of wrong answers, AC tags)

I'm not sure about the blind review the poster mentioned above me, as it relates to using 7sages grader. If you just want to grade a section and see what you got wrong, without seeing the correct AC, you can do that with Q&A.

Only con I actually had for Q&A is its keyboard mode seems buggy and kind of sucks, whereas 7sage's keyboard grader/answer sheet GUI seemed a lot smoother.

I think it might come down to how you study, and how you like analyzing your material though.

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Re: 7Sage or LsatQA Test Grader?

Postby bilbaosan » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:31 am

crestor wrote:Lol at post above, just lol.


Why? I'm completely confident that I'm not going to get 170+, so I don't want to waste time on questions which aren't relevant for my goals anyway.

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Re: 7Sage or LsatQA Test Grader?

Postby bilbaosan » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:37 am

lawschool22 wrote:
bilbaosan wrote:
alan-7sage wrote:This: http://7sage.com/the-blind-review-how-to-correctly-prep-for-lsat-part-1/ is the method I am referring to. When taking the test you circle questions you are unsure of. Then before scoring the test, you go back and re-do those questions you were unsure of without time constraints. After this you enter your answers into 7Sage's scorer. It allows you to indicate which questions you circled on your test, and also input your second (blind review) answer into the scorer.


Ah, got it. Just wonder, does anyone use this method to practice for real? I tried something like that before, but abandoned it since either I understood the question and confident about my answer (and in most cases I don't even understand why it is wrong even after reading the explanation) or I don't understand the question at all, in which case it doesn't matter whether I got it right or wrong.

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Re: 7Sage or LsatQA Test Grader?

Postby alan-7sage » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:24 pm

Thanks for the questions! Sorry I didn't respond until now - I just checked TLS a moment ago.

bilbaosan wrote:
alan-7sage wrote:An interactive table of every LSAT question you have entered. Fully sortable and filterable, with links to explanations, difficulty ratings, and answer choice statistics.


LsatQA has it as well except the links to explanations. Could you please explain what is unique in 7sage tracker?


I don't want to go around saying what LsatQA doesn't have because I've only taken a cursory look at it, so I may have missed some features.

That said, what I haven't been able to find on LsatQA (although it may be there and I just missed it) is the ability to see every question I have ever done in a big table that I can then sort and filter on section type, question type, difficulty, and priority.

For instance, with just 3 clicks, I can see every Must Be True question with a difficulty of very high, sorted by priority (as judged by my actual and blind review responses). One click restores my view to every lsat question I have ever done.

I can also click the star on the far left to "Star" questions for my own reference so that I can come back to them later. The questions you star are stored with your account.

Easy to use interface and layout. Try the keyboard entry for answer input - it is really fast!


As an engineer I'm skeptical toward "easy to use" claims (easy to use for whom? grandmas? people targeting Yale?) but again could you highlight unique things, if any?
LsatQA also has keyboard entry.


Yeah sure! Our grader has just three pages. One to enter scores. Another to look at graphs of your performance by preptest, section, and question type. The last is to review questions you have entered. As mentioned before, you can filter and sort by clicking on what you want to sort/filter on.

Easy to use means easy for me :) Of course, as I mentioned, I am deeply biased towards our grader. It's designed to fit what I expect when I use websites. For instance, when you use the keyboard entry, you don't need to key in which section you want to work on, you just use the up and down arrows to go through the sections. When the cursor moves past what you can see on the screen, the screen moves so that your cursor is always visible. When you type in an answer, you don't need to press the down-button to go to the next question - it's automatic.

Of course, easy for me doesn't necessarily imply easy for others. If you try it out and find something hard/confusing, please let me know - I'd love to know so that I can make it better!



Works great with 7Sage's Blind Review Method (thanks for pointing this out, lawschool22!)


Is blind method about "after scoring you can see the answers you got wrong, but you do not see the correct answers for those until you click on the section"? LsatQA has it.


Lawschool22 gave an excellent explanation of Blind Review above (way to master the process, lawschool22!)

We just updated our grader about an hour ago, adding reading comp passage type tags, an improved layout, and a whole slew of assorted improvements. It's still free to use, enjoy!


"Still free" is what kept me away from certain tracking services as there's a good chance one day you log in and ask for the payment of $19.99 to access your data which you didn't even have a chance to migrate.


Sorry, I didn't mean for it to come across that way, but reading it again, I can see why it can sound like that. What I meant is that our grader has always been free and still is. We have no intention of charging people for it, let alone hold their information hostage :D.

Of course, the proof is in the action. We added a page where you can export the PrepTest answer data you've put into our system. You can find the link at the bottom of the question review page http://7sage.com/review-lsat-questions/

The direct link is: http://7sage.com/preptest-answer-export/ (note that you logically need to be signed in to access it, otherwise there's no data to export ;)

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Re: 7Sage or LsatQA Test Grader?

Postby alan-7sage » Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:16 pm

arcanecircle wrote:2 - Extensive section breakdown, 7Sage lacks this. In the "Sections" tab, Q&A will neatly fit analytics into the 3 sections LR/RC/LG, giving you a recent 5 section analysis alongside over all. Drop down menu does pretty much everything I saw on the 7sage site as well (Percentage of wrong answers, AC tags)


Thanks for the feedback about section breakdowns arcanecircle!

I just added a section breakdown a moment ago. So now you can see your average/worst/best on LR/RC/LG, a sortable table of every section you have done, and estimated difficulty ratings for most sections.

I hope you find it helpful!

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Re: 7Sage or LsatQA Test Grader?

Postby Nonconsecutive » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:39 pm

alan-7sage wrote:
arcanecircle wrote:2 - Extensive section breakdown, 7Sage lacks this. In the "Sections" tab, Q&A will neatly fit analytics into the 3 sections LR/RC/LG, giving you a recent 5 section analysis alongside over all. Drop down menu does pretty much everything I saw on the 7sage site as well (Percentage of wrong answers, AC tags)


Thanks for the feedback about section breakdowns arcanecircle!

I just added a section breakdown a moment ago. So now you can see your average/worst/best on LR/RC/LG, a sortable table of every section you have done, and estimated difficulty ratings for most sections.

I hope you find it helpful!


Nice! I am going to have to check this out, I think I'm a few PTs behind on the 7Sage grader.

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Re: 7Sage or LsatQA Test Grader?

Postby alan-7sage » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:45 am

Nonconsecutive wrote:
alan-7sage wrote:
arcanecircle wrote:2 - Extensive section breakdown, 7Sage lacks this. In the "Sections" tab, Q&A will neatly fit analytics into the 3 sections LR/RC/LG, giving you a recent 5 section analysis alongside over all. Drop down menu does pretty much everything I saw on the 7sage site as well (Percentage of wrong answers, AC tags)


Thanks for the feedback about section breakdowns arcanecircle!

I just added a section breakdown a moment ago. So now you can see your average/worst/best on LR/RC/LG, a sortable table of every section you have done, and estimated difficulty ratings for most sections.

I hope you find it helpful!


Nice! I am going to have to check this out, I think I'm a few PTs behind on the 7Sage grader.


Thanks Nonconsecutive - please let us know what you think of it and if there is anything we can improve on!

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lawschool22
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Re: 7Sage or LsatQA Test Grader?

Postby lawschool22 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:55 am

alan-7sage wrote:
Nonconsecutive wrote:
alan-7sage wrote:
arcanecircle wrote:2 - Extensive section breakdown, 7Sage lacks this. In the "Sections" tab, Q&A will neatly fit analytics into the 3 sections LR/RC/LG, giving you a recent 5 section analysis alongside over all. Drop down menu does pretty much everything I saw on the 7sage site as well (Percentage of wrong answers, AC tags)


Thanks for the feedback about section breakdowns arcanecircle!

I just added a section breakdown a moment ago. So now you can see your average/worst/best on LR/RC/LG, a sortable table of every section you have done, and estimated difficulty ratings for most sections.

I hope you find it helpful!


Nice! I am going to have to check this out, I think I'm a few PTs behind on the 7Sage grader.


Thanks Nonconsecutive - please let us know what you think of it and if there is anything we can improve on!


One thing I like about LsatQa is the line graph view that shows cumulative and by section your scaled score. This is a nice way to see improvements and how each section is developing over time relative to other sections. Another thing that would be nice to add in addition to cumulative averages is an automatic calculation of the average of your 5 most recent tests. Or even averages by grouping, such as averages for the 60s PTs, 50s PTs, etc. Another helpful analytic would be average accuracy by game type as a function of probability of seeing that game type (similar to the LR and RC charts).

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Re: 7Sage or LsatQA Test Grader?

Postby theycallmefoes » Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:17 am

For a while, I didn't even realize that 7Sage had an LSAT grader, so I had only been using LsatQA, which I have found quite useful. Now, I'm using both, because the data analysis varies slightly, and I just find it helpful to have as much information as I can. Although they're pretty similar to one another, I do think 7Sage's grader is superior, and spend more time using it, for one key reason: blind review. Golden.

ETA: Also, 7Sage has spectacular explanatory videos. I've purchased quite a few pure PTs (i.e., without the official explanations), so the videos can be quite helpful.

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Dr.Zer0
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Re: 7Sage or LsatQA Test Grader?

Postby Dr.Zer0 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:21 am

The 7sage grader has been getting better and better these last couple of weeks. IMO what would make it superior to LSATQA are three things:

1) Being able to record and grade individual sections.
2) Being able to record a PT more than once. That way you can compare your answers in case you retake a PT.
3) The option of viewing your PT scores and sections as line graphs.




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