Does retaking usually work? Is there a "ceiling"?

blsingindisguise
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Does retaking usually work? Is there a "ceiling"?

Postby blsingindisguise » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:55 am

Asking this mostly out of curiosity. I'm an old man, and when I took the LSAT most law schools were still averaging rather than accepting the highest score, so I never retook although I PT'd 5 points higher than my score.

Here it seems like the conventional wisdom is ALWAYS to spend another few months prepping hard and to retake. Does this usually work, assuming hard study? Can everyone really bump their score another few points?

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haus
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Re: Does retaking usually work? Is there a "ceiling"?

Postby haus » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:06 am

There is a firm ceiling at 180.

blsingindisguise
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Re: Does retaking usually work? Is there a "ceiling"?

Postby blsingindisguise » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:07 am

To be clear, I mean do people ever find they hit personal ceilings.

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haus
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Re: Does retaking usually work? Is there a "ceiling"?

Postby haus » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:14 am

I think that most people can improve (assuming they have not hit 180), but life is full of trade offs.

I think Mike Spivey did a nice job talking about the reality of retakes in a world were scores are no longer averaged.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/mistak ... at-advice/

blsingindisguise
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Re: Does retaking usually work? Is there a "ceiling"?

Postby blsingindisguise » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:31 am

Useful post, thx.

lol one guy retook with a 180 (and got a 175)

http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/ ... erdata.pdf

ralph
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Re: Does retaking usually work? Is there a "ceiling"?

Postby ralph » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:00 am

..
Last edited by ralph on Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Does retaking usually work? Is there a "ceiling"?

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:03 pm

haus wrote:I think that most people can improve (assuming they have not hit 180), but life is full of trade offs.

I think Mike Spivey did a nice job talking about the reality of retakes in a world were scores are no longer averaged.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/mistak ... at-advice/


Damn haus, you beat me to the punch. Thanks for linking, I edited my article just now so I don't say "indeed" every 5 words. Hope it helps!

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90convoy
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Re: Does retaking usually work? Is there a "ceiling"?

Postby 90convoy » Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:08 pm

There certainly is a ceiling. Not everyone is capable of a 180, but I don't see how one could go through the bibles and/or manhattan (even kaplan) and not increase there score.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: Does retaking usually work? Is there a "ceiling"?

Postby ManoftheHour » Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:27 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:For a certain group this makes sense, e.g. you score right around or above where you were at pretesting and/or you feel confident or have been admitted to the range of law schools you are interested in. Additionally, it costs money and is not a particularly fun way to spend the day. But, and let’s go to the direct source from LSAC ,“ data show that scores for repeat test takers often rise slightly.” Just think on this for a second. An improvement of 1 LSAT score above the median of your “dream” school, for example, from a 169 to a 170 at Duke, can have a tremendous impact on your likelihood of admission. Indeed, given the same example, an improvement of 2 points will take you from way from Duke’s 25th percentile to their median and an improvement of 3 points from their 25th to their 75th! A few extra correct answers and you may go from “deny” to “$$$$$”! So before you shrug off the median or say “well that Spivey guy says I am not likely to go up significantly” keep in mind that you are likely to go up, and even an increase in 1 point can be very significant.


180

bp shinners
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Re: Does retaking usually work? Is there a "ceiling"?

Postby bp shinners » Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:49 pm

blsingindisguise wrote:Useful post, thx.

lol one guy retook with a 180 (and got a 175)

http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/ ... erdata.pdf


That was most likely a test prep person who was retaking to add another top score to their resume.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: Does retaking usually work? Is there a "ceiling"?

Postby ManoftheHour » Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:50 pm

bp shinners wrote:
blsingindisguise wrote:Useful post, thx.

lol one guy retook with a 180 (and got a 175)

http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/ ... erdata.pdf


That was most likely a test prep person who was retaking to add another top score to their resume.


It's probably Dave Hall.

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CyanIdes Of March
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Re: Does retaking usually work? Is there a "ceiling"?

Postby CyanIdes Of March » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:11 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
haus wrote:I think that most people can improve (assuming they have not hit 180), but life is full of trade offs.

I think Mike Spivey did a nice job talking about the reality of retakes in a world were scores are no longer averaged.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/mistak ... at-advice/


Damn haus, you beat me to the punch. Thanks for linking, I edited my article just now so I don't say "indeed" every 5 words. Hope it helps!


If I wasn't convinced to retake before, I am now. However, could you shed some light on schools like HYS, what you think they'd think about a retake, and potentially, a lower retake?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Does retaking usually work? Is there a "ceiling"?

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:45 pm

CyanIdes Of March wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
haus wrote:I think that most people can improve (assuming they have not hit 180), but life is full of trade offs.

I think Mike Spivey did a nice job talking about the reality of retakes in a world were scores are no longer averaged.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/mistak ... at-advice/


Damn haus, you beat me to the punch. Thanks for linking, I edited my article just now so I don't say "indeed" every 5 words. Hope it helps!


If I wasn't convinced to retake before, I am now. However, could you shed some light on schools like HYS, what you think they'd think about a retake, and potentially, a lower retake?


How about I will see if Karen can hop on this when she starts Sept. 1? She will have wonderful insight.

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CyanIdes Of March
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Re: Does retaking usually work? Is there a "ceiling"?

Postby CyanIdes Of March » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:48 am

MikeSpivey wrote:
CyanIdes Of March wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
haus wrote:I think that most people can improve (assuming they have not hit 180), but life is full of trade offs.

I think Mike Spivey did a nice job talking about the reality of retakes in a world were scores are no longer averaged.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/mistak ... at-advice/


Damn haus, you beat me to the punch. Thanks for linking, I edited my article just now so I don't say "indeed" every 5 words. Hope it helps!


If I wasn't convinced to retake before, I am now. However, could you shed some light on schools like HYS, what you think they'd think about a retake, and potentially, a lower retake?


How about I will see if Karen can hop on this when she starts Sept. 1? She will have wonderful insight.


Getting Karen's opinion on the subject would be very interesting.




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